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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 26
Milwaukee, WI United States | The symptoms:
You know what it's like when you ride on a grooved or grated stretch of road? The bike has a tendency to weave back and forth a bit as the tire tries to track it's way on the uneven surface. My bike has a much more subtle version of this. It has a way of wondering of it's center line as if a short blast of wind is hitting the wheels from one side and then the other. It happens even on fresh new pavement and at all speeds when there is no wind. Without constant attention the bike will find it's way from one side of the lane to the other. When it is windy or in the turbulence of another vehicle it gets worse as if the amount of wind is multiplying the effect. I have read reviews on this bike that praise it's solid tracking and lack of wind buffeting.
I would like to know if others are feeling this problem or is it just a characteristic of the bike. I let someone else ride the bike without telling them about this and when he got off he said he was not impressed because of the severe buffeting characteristics. We had switched bikes and I was riding his HD down the same road and I did not experience any of this on his bike. I don't see how it can be buffeting at slow speeds like 20 or 30 mph.
Possible Causes:
I've been riding for 38 years. The last 24 have been on shaft drive bikes with no rear wheel adjustment. Could this be caused by a rear wheel that is out of alignment. I check the markers on both sides. The left side is dead center with the marker. The right side looks like it might be off but only like a 32nd of an inch or 16th at the most. Is that enough and would it cause this type of symptom?
The other possibility could be that the front fork bearings are too tight. I've experienced this on two of my other bikes and the symptoms are identical. Both times occured after many years of riding and the front end became "loose". When the they were tightened down too much this same type of "tracking" occured. This problem just happened on my 1999 Honda Valkyrie Interstate (which I still own). It took two years to find a mechanic that could get the tension right to stop the problem. Most kept telling me it was due to something else (or my imagination). After new tires, bearing, etc. it was better but still very subtle like the Vision is now. The last mechanic found that the previous mechanic (who had installed the bearings) used a grease that was too heavy. After cleaning and replacing the grease the rest of the problem went away. That's how critical the adjustment can be.
I've only had the bike for a month and it's been like this since delivery. I'm getting ready to take it back to the dealer for a recall and some other minor fixes and would like to know if others have had this problem and what the fix was if they did.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 732
Western WA | I have no idea what the problem could be gp. There are others on the board with much more knowledge that point you in the right direction.
What I can say is that I've never experienced what you are describing with my Vision. In fact, from my first test drive the thing that impressed me most was how well this bike tracked through the tight corners - it felt like I was riding on rails. Very different from other bikes I've owned.
Something isn't right.
Hope you find a solution. |
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Tourer
Posts: 506
Woodland Hills, CA | I have never had the weaving problem. In fact, I can easily ride my bike hands off (which really disturbs by SO!). In any case, this sounds like it could be a safety issue, and something your dealer needs to address right away. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Co-pilot keeps smacking my helmet when I take both hands off the bar when on cruise control..... afraid that at my age, I am dozing off.
In fact, there just doesn't seem to be a point to always have a hand on the controls except in the twisties. And wind just doesn't move the bike hardly at all - has to be a pretty vicious side gust to get my attention.
Your dealer should fix that for you - STAT |
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Tourer
Posts: 506
Woodland Hills, CA | Its actually a testament to the Vision that you can set the cruise control, take your hands off the bars, get smacked in the head really hard and not lose control. The Vision doesn't seem to mind, although I am thinking about getting some extra padding for the right side of my helmet. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | My Vision tracks straight and true hands free. No issue here. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 26
Milwaukee, WI United States | Thanks all, for confirming what I thought the Vision should be like. I certainly can't use those descriptions for my bike. I just talked to the dealer and got the same first response as I got from the dealer who couldn't fix the same problem on my Valkyrie, "Oh, it's probably just your imagination." I'm dropping the bike off tomorrow morning and leaving it there for a week as it's too far away for me to get to during the week. He says he will ride it for a few days himself to see if he can determine if the problem is in my head or in the bike. We'll see what happens.
In the mean time I hope all who read this thread will continue to comment on the handling of their Visions. Perhaps someone else has had the problem. If not, I'd like to be able to show this thread to my dealer to show that a Vision should not be like this.
How does YOUR Vision handle? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 171
San Antonio, Texas | My Vision handles pretty much the way you describe yours. I, at first, thought there was a problem, so I really started to examine my riding style. I came off of a Kaw. Vulcan Classic 1500. The Vision handles miles above what that old Classic could/would do. Seems like the Vision is only reading the minimal inputs from my handlebars/hands. It is basically moving as I "countersteer" by hanging on and sort of overcorrecting each movement of the bike. By thinking that it would respond the same way the Vulcan did, I was giving it way too much input and (I think) causing my own problem. My solution was just to loosen up and relax and not have a death grip on the bars--sort of like giving a good horse its head and letting it go. I am not saying that's what your problem is--just saying how I'm correcting what reads like the same problem on my Vision.
Please, if your dealer (or anyone else) comes up with a viable solution that actually solves your problem, let us all know--there's bound to be more riders out there with the same "wandering" that may not want to admit it--and are looking for the answer. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 26
Milwaukee, WI United States | Thanks for your response Magic,
Over the past month that I've had the bike I've experimented with different tire pressures, suspension settings, wind wing adjustments, windshield settings and riding techniques in an effort to find a cure. That includes where I put my hands on the grips, how tight to grip them, sitting up, leaning back/forward, etc. In my case what I've found is that how tight the grip is doesn't seem to matter. What has the most effect is how quick or often I make corrective movements. If I keep my attention on trying to feel when the bike is starting to deviate I can make quick little corrections and keep it on a pretty straight path. If I start to give it free reign and only correct when it has strayed out of it's path I end up with a slow weaving from one side of my lane to the other as I let it try to lead me. So I either look like a drunk rider to the people behind me or I'm using to much of my attention trying to control the bike instead of "enjoying" the ride or keeping my 6th sense alert for the jerk that might decide to make a right turn into my path. All other bikes I've ridden track like they are on a rail and are an extension of my body. I need only look ahead to where I want to go and the bike will go there (see the posts above). This bike needs a constant reminder like it has a mind of its own and it seems like the slightest wind pushes it. In fact is seem like the wind is pushing it when there really isn't any wind.
I must admit that I tried convincing myself that it was all in my mind because I wanted to believe that there was nothing wrong with my new Vision. But, after just having experienced this with my Valk and finally getting it fixed after 2 years, I know how ecstatic I was when it finally started riding straight again. I'm glad I didn't give in and convince my self that it was all in my head or riding style.
If there are any Vision riders in the Milwaukee area I would love to get in touch with you. Especially if you are one of the ones who thinks yours handles like a true performance bike. Would you be willing to trade bikes and ride together down the same road to compare the handling of both bikes? Lunch will be on me!
Keep the posts coming - How does your Vision handle?
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Iron Butt
Posts: 619
Southeast Iowa | I dido what Majic said. My previous bike was a TC and it was no where near as sensitive to rider inputs as the Vision. The first time I rode behind a 18 wheeler at 70 mph I thought I was going to wreck the darn thing. The problem as it turned out was ME! I was just over correcting. Several hundred miles later I forgot about it as I became more used to the bike. I am also not saying this is your problem, I have been down the bearing road myself and know exactly what you are talking about. Do you know another Vision Rider that you can switch bikes with for a few miles? That might be the easiest way to see if it is you or the bike. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 87
Lusby,Md | I noticed the drifting back and forth also,but the bike felt solid in turns and if I was the only one on the road,but if I got behind a truck or car it seems to drift back and forth.So yeah I notice it to.I've got 12,000 on mine and when I had
worn tires on it it quit,I put new tires on it and now it's back.I don't know what say,but,I know what you're talking about. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | gp, I was going to suggest just that, let another Vision rider take it around the block. But before you ride again, make sure all the bolts are tight, take off the seat and look down at the rear shock and look around the swing arm and axle and adjustments. Given everything is tight, it just may be rider input. When I first started riding again I did it on a '84 Goldwing. I took it real easy for a month or more and worked my way back into riding good. I rode the Wing putting on over 38k in just two years, despite she was old and had a few problems. When I got on the Vision I felt I was out of my league. I would travel down the interstate and it would weave some and I felt I got blasted by the trucks. It had me scared for a while and then I realized I was riding it like I was still on my wing. I let my body tune into the bike, if that makes sense. I can't say I loosen grips or did any exaggerated moves all I know is I just started riding the bike. Everything changed to the point that truck wash doesn't even phase me when I ride. I'll even ride in the buffetting, just like I did with the wing to accustom myself to it in case it happened unexpectantly. With the Vision there is very little impact compared to the Wing so I don't do it as much anymore. By all means be safe, let someone else ride who has ridden a Vision and hopefully it will work out for you. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1117
Northeast Ohio | The only time I notice this is riding solo. It may not feel like it is windy, but look where it happens. If it is by an open field, I bet you would be surprised how windy it is. That is when I notice it. If I am riding 2-up, she tracks true. Some believe it is the trunk. Try taking off the trunk and run it on the freeway and see if that helps. Also, if you slow down 10 or so miles an hour, does it behave better.
Don't fight it, you'll get used to it. I was cranking about 80 today to get the bike to the dealer for the recall and a couple of times I had a hard time staying in my middle path. I would rather have a little wandering than getting the crap kicked out of me by the wind. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL |
I've heard of some bikes having "fall-away" problems? From what I understand if the steering head nut isn't properly torqued it will allow too much play in the front end and it tends to drift and in some cases possibly have a vibration? I wonder if the way the Vision is designed could it possibly have this type of issue?
The reason for the questions marks is 'cuz I'm not quite sure what I'm talking about, I'm kinda jabbing in the wind here a bit.
I'm sure someone around here has a clue as to what I'm attemtping to describe and will correctly straighten out my theory......
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Tourer
Posts: 319
| When I weave my Vision weaves. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 26
Milwaukee, WI United States | UPDATE:
I dropped the Vision off at the dealers today. Probably won't see it till next week end. It's a 45 mile ride on the freeway to get there and today it was handling much better. It did it a little bit but that's another part of the symptom. It comes and goes. I've been riding it to work for the last two weeks on the same road and calm early morning conditions and some days it's worse than others. I am not changing my riding style on those days so I still can't figure out what the trigger is.
I would love to find some other local Vision riders to help do a comparison test when I get the bike back - especially if you're one of the ones who thinks their bike has great handling and none of these symptoms. How about you Milwaukee area Visionaries? As I said before, lunch or dinner or a few beers will be on me. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | I agree with the rest of the posts here. As long as every thing is tight and the rear wheel is tracking correctly, relax your grip and let the bike do the work. When I first got mine the rear wheel needed adjusting. Now when I feel the bike doing weird things, I notice that I have tensed up for some reason (traffic, road conditions, etc...). Hard to make yourself relax in tense situations. But it works. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 92
West Bend, WI | gplongworth - 2008-09-27 2:50 PM
UPDATE:
I dropped the Vision off at the dealers today. Probably won't see it till next week end. It's a 45 mile ride on the freeway to get there and today it was handling much better. It did it a little bit but that's another part of the symptom. It comes and goes. I've been riding it to work for the last two weeks on the same road and calm early morning conditions and some days it's worse than others. I am not changing my riding style on those days so I still can't figure out what the trigger is.
I would love to find some other local Vision riders to help do a comparison test when I get the bike back - especially if you're one of the ones who thinks their bike has great handling and none of these symptoms. How about you Milwaukee area Visionaries? As I said before, lunch or dinner or a few beers will be on me.
Have not really had an issue like this. Yes when it is windy and solo the bike moves a bit, I contribute that to the trunk. By the way, West Bend here. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL |
I know it might be a bit early but any type of update yet? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 639
Tri Cities, WA | Ok i have not experinced the weaving but I have expereniced what I call exessive Buffeting when passing Semi's on the freeway. It gets worse when I trying to pass two or more semis. Does anyone else experince this as well. The first time it happen i thought i had a rear flat tire at first and kinda scared me a bit then i relized it was just the wind coming of the semi's causing the shaking effect. I have ridin for along time and never really felt my bike weave and shake like it does on this new vision when passing large trucks. I have been chalking it up to having that large fairing on my vision unlike my other rides. ( never owned a bike with a full fairing on it) My 06 nomad I just traded in would get a little to no buffeting when passing big rigs (nothing like my vision does) but i only had a windshield and lowers on mine. My Honda spirit 1100 did have more buffeting than my nomad but that was due to the windshield i had on it.
So it seems then that the heavy buffeting off semi trucks is pretty normal for all visions then??? Would like to hear from you all. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 732
Western WA | I get the buffeting from semi trucks, but it is not nearly as bad as it was on my Suzuki, or maybe I'm just used to it.
Either way, it isn't really a problem.
When I get close to a semi, I don't hang out in the blast zone. I get around those puppies pronto. You never know when you're going to get lost in their mirrors, or forgotten. |
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Tourer
Posts: 506
Woodland Hills, CA | After many years of muscling around a Harley, I admit it took me a bit to get used to the light touch of the Vision (never spent much time on sport bikes). At first, I too was wondering about the bike's handling, especially in the wind, being passed by those large semi's, grooves in the road, etc. It seemed like I felt every imperfection in the road, and every gust of wind. Initially I just chalked it up to all the body work and additional weight. But in short order, I realized it was mostly me. I relaxed, stopped being so heavy handed (as was necessary on the Harley), and just let the bike do the work. That's when I realized just what an amazing machine the Vision is. Its the smoothest, best handling bike I have ever ridden, by far, and just keeps getting better with each ride. In fact, when I do get back on my Harley from time to time (although admitted mostly just to keep it running), I can so easily see the difference, and can appreciate the Vision even more.
This is a well balanced and great handling bike, and depending on what you are used to riding, it may just take some time to adjust to the Vision's performance. But once you do, you won't look back. Whether on the highway or in the tight twisties, the Vision is one sweet ride, at least to me.
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Cruiser
Posts: 293
Arkansas | I just don't know what you guys are talking about! I have
14,000 mi on mine and it punches through the wind and
Truck turbulence better than either my road king, street
Glide or gl1800 I had b4 the vision. Just moves a little but
tracks true. Best darn handling in the industry as far as I
can tell. I do think that the light handling response does
take some getting used to, though. But it's better, much
better than the others. Just get in touch with the Force, young
Skywalkers!
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Tourer
Posts: 506
Woodland Hills, CA | I agree with you jama, which was my point. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL |
Most of the time wind buffeting can be taken care of with loosening your grip on the bike. This means BOTH your handgrip and the inevitable leg grip too !!!
Doing this really goes smack dab up against your instinct. If your bike starts waving like a flag in the wind you feel that you almost HAVE to tense up and get better control of it...otherwise you are gonna lose it and do some ditch diving or worse yet some unhealthy asphalt eating. The more tense you are the more your muscles will fight and the more you will attempt to correct the buffeting which will lead to even more wavering which leads to being more tense and so on. Its like a unstopable force that can get much worse with every passing foot of pavement. Sometimes you have alternatives such as twisting the throttle a bit or maybe you can slow down or whatever. But there are times where these alternative methods aren't available. You think you have to sit there...all tensed up...fighting the buffeting...hoping for an opening.
But if you loosen up a bit the buffeting does die down quite a bit and will almost go completely away. Start off by loosening the handgrip a bit, let the fingers free-up, rest your palms on the grips. The follow up the arms and bend your elbows a bit more than you usually do. Keep going up the arms and let your shoulders droop down and maybe slighlty forward, don't "push" them forward, just let them kinda "fall" forward. Now go to the neck, allow your head to do what it wants. Relax your back muscles, maybe don't sit so straight up as usual. Go to your hips and thighs, QUIT squeezing the tank with your knees!!
Doing all of this works....trust me. Few years back I had a Kawi Concours that I deeply feared being tucked behind a semi or stuck in a crosswind on. The buffeting/wavering beat me to the point I was about ready to give up. Sure, I used to twist the throttle and get by the semi, but this process doesn't work in a stiff crosswind or heavy traffic. Well, prior to giving up I did some research and came across a post worded almost exactly the same as my last paragraph. The following day I went out on the local freeway and found a patch of pavement where it was just me and one semi. I slowly crept up the backside of this semi to where I just started to get some buffeting. Then I focused on relaxing, I started with my handgrip, and I almost immediately noticed a slight drop in the buffeting. Then I continued with the rest of my body, and with each passing foot I continued to notice a drop in the buffeting. Then I decided to tuck up behind the semi a bit more, the buffeting picked up a bit and nautrally I tensed back up. I started over with the relaxation and I was quickly back down to very minimal buffeting. I kept doing this for a while, I adjusted my speed and distance and my relaxation, I tucked towards the left and right sides of the semi, pulled up alongside it, drifted over close...close enough to easily reach out and touch it, and so on. I think it was a stroke of luck that I had so much time to practice with this semi, seemed like I played around for at least 45 minutes or more. After doing this a few more times, especially one time with some fairly strong crosswinds combined with some semi traffic, I got to the point of almost completely losing any fear of buffeting. Oh...I still get into situations where I may have a little tense up, but I immediately go into "relax-mode" and cut the buffeting. Try it...it works !!! I know...a bit of a long-winded post...with somewhat crazy info...but if it helps make one rider enjoy thier ride more than they already do then it was worth it. |
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My Vision weaves back and forth
