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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 23
| Gday,
I had ATS on my traded CCT set at plus 4 advance, the bike ran as advertised a little stronger and no pinging.
I am aware (for some reason, unknown to me) all these motors respond differently to the ATS.
I now have a 2012 Vision with the ATS backed off to advance 2 and I still get a very occasional ping under load.
Any one else experience this with the ATS, any explanations or suggestions welcome.
Thanks |
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Visionary
Posts: 1228
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | I had one also and could not get it to stop pinging whenever the air temp was over 100. That means quite frequently here in SoCal. I took it off. Always run 91 octane too.
Edited by Nozzledog 2014-09-25 7:48 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Fueling is the issue. Mapping, mods or vacuume leak |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 10
| Set timing to 2+ fuel controller #1. 3.5 #2. 0 #3. 0 #4. 0 #5. 6 #6. 7.
Updated air box and open exhaust and 91 gas.
This setting made my bike come to life. I bilt my exhaust slip in 1 7/8 baffle out of a 12 inch glass pack muffler. Sounds good.
I hope this works for you.
SOCAL rider Murrieta rider. Working out of town will be home in late Oct. Always looking for someone to ride with.
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Visionary
Posts: 1228
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | I spent $350 on a Dynotune and could not keep it from pinging at low rpms. Sometimes, It's just the bike.
VM1 Cams, PCV, L1S1 Exhaust, Ness top filter, Mickey Cohen Dynotune.
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 10
| Iron Butt you are right. Take my settings with a gran of salt. 30 year mechanic had HD's all my life. Air cooled are all deferent. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 23
| Thanks for all the replies.
I should have given a few more details regarding the odd ping under load on my Vision.
Weather temp is mild here at the moment.
Fuel is mostly higher octain.
My bike is stock motor wise, except for the ATS.
I have no intrest in Hi flow intake, loud pipes or fuel controllers on this bike.
Should I try un pluging the 02 sensors ?
Do un plugged sensors effect fuel consumption ?
Cheers
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | If you had no ping before the ATS it could be that your engine just does not tolerate even 2 degrees of advance. Before giving up I would try looking for an air leak as KevinX suggested. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 23
| Thanks,
As I'm no mechanic, where would I start looking for an air leak ? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | I started with +4, now I'm at +2 and ping when it's hot outside and the bikes under heavy load.
I'm about to remove mine. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Not knowing what your getting for mileage I would un-hook the 02's it will do harm and maybe you'll loose 2 mpg.
Pull your cheese wedges and with bike running at idle spray some carb cleaner or WD-40 in at the throttle body.
If the idle picks up or the bike quiets you have a vacuum leak.
Are you getting the pinging in 6th gear going up steep hills.
Where do you live. You are using 91 octane I take it |
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Tourer
Posts: 341
West Salem, WI United States | Sure does seem like every motor is different. 13 Vision all stock except for the ATS and unplugged O2 sensors.
I had mine at +4 all summer (WI) and it never pinged once. Granted we did not have any really high temps or high humidity.
I have it at +6 right now with the cool dry weather and its running really nice.
If I need to, I'll adjust it back down next summer when the temps come back up if it pings. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 53
Claremont,Mn | I had mine set at 4 and had pinging under load, backed it down to 2 and no ping. Have since then done thrush exhaust, Lloyd's top filter, ness front filter, pc4 and a dyno at TVS . After that I advanced it back to 4 with no pinging, not real hot this summer but still no ping. Running 92 octane. 2012 vision |
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Cruiser
Posts: 103
Davenport, IA | After installing mine, I had to back down the setting from +4 to +2 and has been good up until today before my last gas stop. The gas station had 91 octane but was with 10% alcohol (I think 10%). It was 82 degrees here in Iowa. Cruising at 70 mph on interstate was ok, but when getting on the throttle it would ping. Would the 10% alcohol in the gas cause the pinging? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | I have a question about the Lloyds timing wheel that I installed as well. I'm running it at the 4+ setting. Yesterday, I pulled my spark plugs to check them, and to my surprise the insulator was clean as a whistle, as was the electrode and strap. I tried to take a picture of them, but I couldn't get my camera to focus well enough; I did find a picture of a spark plug on the web though; and my plugs look EXACTLY like this:
(ignore remarks in the photo; they are not mine)
I was running a Dobeck EFI and the Top filter, as well as S1L2's (and I still am) before I installed the timing wheel; and my plugs never looked like this before then. My settings on the Dobeck for cruise is 3.5, Yellow is 3 and WOT is 3.
Is the advance timing actually running too hot for our motors?
Edited by willtill 2014-09-28 7:39 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | kmt27 - 2014-09-27 11:06 PM
After installing mine, I had to back down the setting from +4 to +2 and has been good up until today before my last gas stop. The gas station had 91 octane but was with 10% alcohol (I think 10%). It was 82 degrees here in Iowa. Cruising at 70 mph on interstate was ok, but when getting on the throttle it would ping. Would the 10% alcohol in the gas cause the pinging?
No. Maybe, if the gas is a little old. What do I mean?
Ethanol has an octane rating of about 110 by itself. That is certainly high enough for our motors to prevent pinging.
The problem is that the 91 octane gas/ethanol blend was most likely made by blending 55% 85 octane gas with 35% 91 octane gas (resulting in 89 octane) and 10% ethanol. When the stuff sits around for awhile, it suffers from phase separation. The ethanol absorbs any water in the air and then drops out of suspension from the gas and goes to the bottom of the tank. This mix is a much lower octane. The remaining gasoline in the tank is the 55% 85 octane and 35% 91 octane mix, which results in something around 87 to 89 octane, more or less, depending on how old the stuff is. The older it is, the lower the octane, since all gasoline degrades as it ages.
When first blended, the ethanol/gas mix IS 91 octane, BUT it doesn't stay there after a couple of months of storage. As it ages and absorbs moisture, it rapidly loses octane rating.
Don't blame the oil companies or the pipeline and fuel blenders. They fought hard against the EPA mandated use of ethanol. I lived through the whole thing, from the required manual blending by the transport drivers to the EPA required automation, which cost the pipelines billions to implement. You're paying for it at the pump.
Ronnie.
Edited by rdbudd 2014-09-28 11:01 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| How many miles on your plugs you need a good 200 miles for them to change color.
Rylan said he doesn't not why but a lot of vision only like the ATS set at +2 |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | johnnyvision - 2014-09-28 6:02 PM
How many miles on your plugs you need a good 200 miles for them to change color.
Rylan said he doesn't not why but a lot of vision only like the ATS set at +2
About 1500 miles on these. I replaced them when I got new spark plug leads from Witchdoctors.
I do believe that 4+ is too much and I am also willing to bet that many of our brethren here (whom are running the ATS at 4+) would be very surprised if they were to pull their plugs, and see what's going on with them.
Edited by willtill 2014-09-28 6:00 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 691
Manchester, CT | rdbudd...great write up! I too am experiencing pinging under load/acceleration. My ATS is set at +4. What's odd is, I had been running at 4+ for months without any pinging. It started about 5 weeks ago. I've added Lucas fuel system clean to no avail.
If I drop down to +2, how will that impact performance e.g. top end, low etc.... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 691
Manchester, CT | in regards to the plugs...no signs of degradation. |
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | No ping here but I have only run my Vision at +3 since the day I installed the wheel. I held back simply as a precautionary measure. When it comes to machinery I can be very conservative. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 53
Claremont,Mn | Street Eagle - 2014-09-28 9:16 PM
rdbudd...great write up! I too am experiencing pinging under load/acceleration. My ATS is set at +4. What's odd is, I had been running at 4+ for months without any pinging. It started about 5 weeks ago. I've added Lucas fuel system clean to no avail.
If I drop down to +2, how will that impact performance e.g. top end, low etc....
Street Eagle,
When Rylan dynode my 12 vision, the wheel was at +2. Before advancing it after I returned home, I checked with Rylan to make sure I wouldn't lean it out it or do any harm and he assured me that going from 2 to 4 would be just fine. If I were advancing up to 6, that may have repercussions since it was dynod at 2. I didn't notice much of a difference myself going up the 2 degrees. Hope this helps. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 691
Manchester, CT | Thanks spunkler.
Update...this morning I filled up and once again added (more than instructions stated). The ping went away. I will update this email if the pinging comes back |
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Cruiser
Posts: 244
| frederick - 2014-09-25 10:55 PM Set timing to 2+ fuel controller #1. 3.5 #2. 0 #3. 0 #4. 0 #5. 6 #6. 7. Updated air box and open exhaust and 91 gas. This setting made my bike come to life. I bilt my exhaust slip in 1 7/8 baffle out of a 12 inch glass pack muffler. Sounds good. I hope this works for you. SOCAL rider Murrieta rider. Working out of town will be home in late Oct. Always looking for someone to ride with. Frederick: If I read you note rite, your controller G=3.5, Y=0, R=0, B/G=0, B/Y=6, B/R=7. ?Why the 6 & 7 when Y & R are both at 0? My ATS is at +6 for about a year now, Running 87 except when pulling the camper then 89 or 91 if its really hot (FL). no pinging. |
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | Street Eagle - 2014-09-28 9:16 PM rdbudd...great write up! I too am experiencing pinging under load/acceleration. My ATS is set at +4. What's odd is, I had been running at 4+ for months without any pinging. It started about 5 weeks ago. I've added Lucas fuel system clean to no avail. If I drop down to +2, how will that impact performance e.g. top end, low etc.... +2 will give you less than you had but still advanced over the stock setting. I think I would at least open it up and make sure it hasn't shifted. It happened to a few people that are on the various forums. I don't recall if it was here or one of the others where I saw the reports.
Edited by Oldman47 2014-09-30 5:16 PM
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Loydz Timing Wheel advance and pinging.
