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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 7
london, OH United States | I recently purchased the autotune for my pc-v, are the a/f r's from dynojet good,or does anyone have a better set up. Ive got the lloydz upper filter and s1l1 setup on a 2012 vision. Any info will be greatly appreciated.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| mtnvision - 2014-07-15 8:32 PM
I recently purchased the autotune for my pc-v, are the a/f r's from dynojet good,or does anyone have a better set up. Ive got the lloydz upper filter and s1l1 setup on a 2012 vision. Any info will be greatly appreciated.
I originally used one of their downloaded maps and it worked well enough. Then on a whim I had it dynoed by Mickey Cohen and he modified the AFR map and timing to get the best performance and fuel mileage. He charged like $300 and it was well worth it. The bike runs way stronger and cleaner and gets better mileage on cruise then it ever did. You just have to find a tuner who knows what he's doing.
Marc |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 7
london, OH United States | I know a tuner that does great work, but im trying to find an afr table that works well for the autotune, im not looking for maximum power, would just like a good mix of performance and mileage. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| That's the point. Every bike is different besides considering the different accessories you have. A good tuner can set up the AFR table so that it gives the best settings for your particular bike the way you like to ride it taking everything into consideration. If you prefer to go with the generic tables you'll find a good assortment on Dynojet's website including various add-ons like what you have and they'll work good enough.
When Cohen did mine I told him I was also looking for good mileage at cruising speeds so he adjusted the table leaner at specific RPM's and throttle openings. He also adjusted the timing in addition to the advance unit I have from LLoyd. It was interesting that he knew exactly how I had been riding the bike just by looking at the tables. He knew what RPM's I favored and how hard I ride it. I told him I didn't want him to do a full pull and he laughed and told me he knew I had never run it over 4500 rpm or more than 80% throttle and he was right. You can't hide anything from a good tuner :-) It took him about 3 hours but the difference was noticeable right away.
Marc |
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Visionary
Posts: 1228
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | The dyno tuning process gives fuel numbers to give the most power. I don't know if you can take a tuned map and reverse engineer it to get an AFR table with the PCV. I know the dyno shows what the optimal AFR is while on the machine, but I don't think they save that info to an AFR table. I have a date with Mickey next week. What I hope to get out of it is not only a map for my current setup, but also an AFR table showing what those AFRs are for that map. That way I can adjust my map (using the autotune) if I ever change anything on the bike. I am actually going to try and get two tables & maps. One for power and one for fuel economy, then use the map switching feature on the PCV to go back and forth as needed. I also figure the 'power' map will be a richer map and better for keeping the engine cooler during parade riding.
Currently My AFRs run from 14.4 in the cells that would represent decel or light cruising, on up to 13-13.2 in the 80 and 100% cells and high RPM cells. Most of the cells I commonly ride in are about 13.6-13.8.
maybe next week I can tell you how close I was to a professional tune. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | I got my auto tune w no AFR table. I've asked and questioned this on several forums and have yet to have anyone who really answers to how to begin with a proper AFR table for the auto tune. Dyno Jet even suggested I put 13.8 in every cell and go from there. Doesn't seem much technology in that thinking. Marc is right, a properly done dyno will get you the proper AFR and really, from there I'd probably sell my Auto tune. I purchased it specifically for what it's supposed to do, auto tune since my original dyno map was outdated due to changes I've made and other parameters.
As Marc said, each bike is different. 14 as a value in certain cells, in my bike in Oklahoma may not be the optimum value for another bike in California.
I enjoy messing with it on occasion and I'm tweaking numbers, but I'd personally skip it next go round and stick with a good dyno tuner.
Here's a AFR table that will get you started.
(Target Table AFR.png)
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 Target Table AFR.png (37KB - 6 downloads)
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| After Cohen finished with my bike I asked him if I still needed the Autotune and he said definitely. The idea is that Autotune will tune around the mapped fuel settings in order to compensate for local conditions and still maintain the desired AFR. Once in a while I check the trims even though I have no intention of saving them and modifying his work. What is interesting though is that the trims are very small, much less than what they used to run so he must have gotten it damn close. Darrell, I think you'll be happy with his work. Besides that, he's quite the character and puts on a good show in his own right :-)
Marc |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | and here's the AFR table that PowerCommander suggests for our bikes, regardless of which modifications you have.
So like Nozzledog said, I've ordered a toggle switch and I'm going to play with 2 maps. Sounds like fun.
Edited by okie vision 2014-07-16 4:46 PM
(DynoJet AFR table, Vision.png)
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DynoJet AFR table, Vision.png (29KB - 22 downloads)
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 7
london, OH United States | Thanks for all the info, ive been toying around with the numbers a bit, after talking with lloyd greer, and ive got it running alot better than when i started, im gonna have my dyno guy at least check it to see if its good, and if not, ill have hime go ahead and tune it. Thanks again for all the info. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1228
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | This is the AFR map Mickey made for me. He didn't like the idea of having two maps and a switch. He thought that would be more for running different fuels in a race bike and didn't recommend running any leaner just for fuel economy. I will still have the switch, but it will just toggle between the custom map, and the dynamic Autotune AFRs. So really, I can only see myself turning the autotune on if I am riding at altitude or something. We did not use the adjustable timing wheel, I have had issues with pinging at low rpms already. He did add some advance, between 4 and 6 depending on what the dyno came up with for that cell.
Final for the day was 107TQ and 112.5HP.
That's VM1 Cams, PCV, L1S1 exhaust, HP air filter, Ness top filter.
p.s. I've got a timing wheel for sale now.
(CohenAFR.jpg)
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CohenAFR.jpg (76KB - 6 downloads)
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| okie vision - 2014-07-16 4:43 PM
and here's the AFR table that PowerCommander suggests for our bikes, regardless of which modifications you have.
So like Nozzledog said, I've ordered a toggle switch and I'm going to play with 2 maps. Sounds like fun.
Take this stock Dynojet map, and add .3 to every cell (lean it out), will give much better running motor, with snappier throttle response. In the 0%, 750-1250 cells, put in 13.7. From there, I zero out some cells that are basically decel only (for example, 5% throttle, above 2500rpm), and look for wild swings in the trims at certain cells, and then hard code the richer of the numbers generated (I'd rather use the number that was generated under acceleration, rather than deceleration).
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | Good info.
I'm headed in that direction, slowly leaning out the DynoJet AFR table. Bike has dramatically improved. |
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air/fuel ratios for autotune?
