|
|
Cruiser
Posts: 258
Akron, Ohio | It is funny how many folks run things in or on there motorcycle that is not motorcycle specific. And for every one who does this there are always those who say that if it not designed specifically for a bike it has no place on one. So this means that my car tire is going to kill me, my truck specific motor oil is going to lock up the engine, my car specific oil filter will either fail or let too much dirt bypass, my automotive GPS will get me lost, my automotive air horn won't blow and I'll crash into a car, my car wash and wax will damage the paint, my automotive brake fluid will cause the brakes not to work. I think you get the idea. If you truly look at data, a CT meets the load, speed and temperature ratings. Does it say on the sidewall, DO NOT USE ON A MOTORCYCLE? OK, my early morning rant is done. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | turbobuick - 2010-12-22 8:44 AM
Installed a Bridgestone Potenza 019 Grid 195/55/16
I like it for the following reasons:
Wet Traction is 10x better
Stopping power is 2x better
Handling around corners takes just alittle to get use to,but it handles well
MY Question to Existing DarkSiders is what Tire Pressure are you Running????
Grant it, you did only ask one question, but you make 3 statements. In all of my post I do not believe I was putting any one down for riding the darkside, in fact I applaude you for doing so. I'm just making a statement that the one thing that will keep me from going dark side is "Handling around corners takes just alittle to get use to,but it handles well"
and in the following post:
"If you absolutely MUST have that superb handling a brand new MC tire exhibits.....you wont like the car tire." My statements should not put a damper on anyone going darkside that desires to do so, and it seems that most all of the folks that have gone DS absolutely love it for them to defend it so vehemently. I know there are others who feel the same way that I do, and others who will never return to a motorcycle tire once they had a taste of the darkside. Reading and responding to darkside post has helped me greatly to make my own educated decision without ever trying it. In our world there are tons of decisions you have made without actually trying based off collective responses from others. I had an older brother that I learned a lot from, mostly what not to get caught doing and definetely those things I should never try. Here's to hoping for many happy (s)miles to one and all for the coming year, regardless of what tire you ride and on what bike. aaronrkelly - 2010-12-25 11:28 PM
Cap'n Nemo - 2010-12-25 9:51 PM
I don't doubt the claims of stopping and stability of the type of tires folks are running on their bikes, but the only benefit that I'm convinced of is the longevity and the cost comparison. I personally don't like the "difference" spoken of as I love the way my Vision rolls with the stock tires.
To put this "difference" into perspective.....follow along.
Every time you put new tires on your bike there is a difference. Weather its a fresh pair of E3s.....or perhaps a different pair of motorcycle specific tires - your bike is going to handle "different" then it did before.
Its impossible for it not to.....how different depends. If you ride on your E3s till they get close to the wear bars and your experience was like mine your already riding on some fairly "out of round" tires before you change. The 2 pairs of E3s I had on my bike got very square in the middle fairly quickly....Id say within the 4K to 5K miles.
Go to a pair of NEW E3s and it handles like a dream again.....but it didnt last long.
Switched from the "out of round" worn E3s to the car tire and handling improves. Comparing a NEW E3 to a car tire - there is a "difference".....but not significant and no different then any other tire change exhibits.
The difference isnt drastic.....in fact Ive had people ride my bike and they didnt even know there was a car tire under there till I told them.
So in order for me to keep that "light, new" motorcycle tire feeling Id change tires every 4K.....thats not going to work.
The car tire doesnt wear like the MC tire.....so its stays fairly static in handling characteristics. It basically handles like a slightly worn or used E3 (my personal comparison....perhaps your riding style doesnt wear tires like mine).
Ive got 30K miles on my Vision since this April.......perhaps you dont ride as much, dont pull a trailer......dont ride thousands of miles in a weeks time. Perhaps the E3 works for you.
It doesnt for me.
If you absolutely MUST have that superb handling a brand new MC tire exhibits.....you wont like the car tire.
However if you can live with the handling a worn MC tire exhibits and would like to only change tires every 25K to 30K.....well then perhaps a car tire would work for you.
|
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 104
Corona, CA | ---As far as hydroplaning, the wider the tire, the more it's going to hydroplane given the same load. This has nothing to do with traction or surface contact area. It has everthing to do with leading edge displacement. All tires will have relatively the same surface contact area given they run at the same PSI and the same load. The differnce is the shape of the contact patch. A narrow long patch has less water it must displace because the leading edge removes it and the rest of the patch follows clear from water. A wide, short patch has more water it must displace and a higher tendancy to plane. Think of a bicycle tire. Very narrow, terrible traction but almost impossible to hydroplane.---
Oh so I guess all the F1 cars should be running bicycle width tires when they encounter rain ! Don't think so.
Edited by team5150 2010-12-26 2:18 PM
|
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 208
Wichita, Kansas | I am sitting here stunned disbelief of all the crap the darksiders are taking for not using "what the engineers thought was best" on the VV. As an engineer that designs components for $15,000,000 aircraft, I can tell you what engineers think. We want the best part that will satisfy the most people. Not the fanciest, not the cheapest (usually), not the only one made in some specific place, or one that appeals to only 6% of my customer base. I pick the part that satisfies the most customers right out of the box. If I make a good enough product, many people will buy it and then go to one of the many aftermarket shops and have something added or changed out if they want something different. My guess is that Victory works the same way. Riders on this forum have talked about changing brake pads, front forks, steering geometry, lighting, brands of MC tires, exhausts, engine parts, and (may the motorcycle gods forgive me for saying this) even oil. All of those things have potential safety implications and have never raised a commotion like this (OK, maybe the oil did). If everyone is so convinced that the engineers got it perfect and it shouldn't be changed, KevinX, Ness, and many others would be out of business and all our bikes would look alike. If someone is willing to put his money and his ass on the line for something different, that is his privilege as the owner of the bike and his, dare I say it, his right.
This is no different than guys who want to put cams, pipes or chrome on their bikes. Go wail on them for a while. Although, I've got to admit the flame wars make for some interesting reading at times, and I expect this post will draw it's share. Merry Christmas to all and God Bless America.
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | You folks are still amusing the hell out of me! Keep it up....
And I agree with everything all of you said - even what I said.
And our right to say it - what I have learned from all this is that I will NEVER be a Darksider. Without this thread - I might have tried it one day. THANKS!
|
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 111
Prairie Dog Heaven, CO | Thomas - 2010-12-23 6:33 PM
picard - 2010-12-22 10:56 PM Thomas - 2010-12-22 6:41 PM turbobuick - 2010-12-22 8:44 AM ... ...MY Question to Existing DarkSiders is what Tire Pressure are you Running???? ? ?For 2up I run 38 lbs in the rear and 38 in the front.  ?
? Your passenger looks a little concerned there.... Your probably right, that pic is from the dragon US129. She kept howling slow down something was scraping. LOL!
I know what that sounds like! Passengers seem to do that :-)
Edited by picard 2010-12-28 12:17 PM
|
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 60
not far from hustler wisconsin | Good thing we are all friendly here. no one got banned or scrapped making this thread......
oh, and I will let you know how darksiding works for me...i need a new rear and will give the Potenza a try.
What model is it again? |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | wibiker - 2010-12-29 8:49 PM
Good thing we are all friendly here. no one got banned or scrapped making this thread......
oh, and I will let you know how darksiding works for me...i need a new rear and will give the Potenza a try.
What model is it again?
G019 Grid....
185/55-16 works better if your using a hitch and towing as it gives you just a bit more clearance....but its not AS common you may have to order it and wait a few days
195/55-16 is common and in stock most places.......fine if your not running a hitch.
|
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 161
Tampa, Fl United States | wibiker - 2010-12-29 9:49 PM
Good thing we are all friendly here. no one got banned or scrapped making this thread......
oh, and I will let you know how darksiding works for me...i need a new rear and will give the Potenza a try.
What model is it again?
G019 GRID
Edited by turbobuick 2010-12-30 4:58 AM
|
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 156
dinwiddie, va | I can say that I do not and will not run a car tire on my Vision. But as a Vic Tech, have installed and ridden a few miles on the Potenza. Because of the idea that the tire isn't designed nor belongs on a motorcycle, I have my customers sign a waiver before I install the tire. The tire does fit perfectly on the bike. I took an extended test ride on thiese bikes on some good twisty roads and highways. For the highways and straights they ride very well.... Obviously they would. As for the twisties, I was very uneasy knowing there was a car tire with no pitch and alot of sidewall under me. You have to push the Potenza into the corners much like a wide tire bike. It is pretty twitchy in hard corners. I come from a background of past and present Motocross riding and past thorough sport bike mileage that loved the twisties. So I am rarely nervous on anything I ride. As a Tech I ride something different every day and can adapt pretty easily to anything. I can't say I would ever recommend this setup to anyone. But to each their own, do what makes you happy. Just be careful and ride safe |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 88
Billings, MT | I find my best performance is at 41 PSI! |
|
| |
|
Puddle Jumper
Posts: 27
| look great 2 BIG SIX |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 324
New Orleans, La, | If you've done all of the things it takes to get max milage and safety out of a m/c designed tyre and stil have an issue with the tyre life span and all you're concerned is increased milage and decreased cost of the rear tyre on a vehicle that is not even your basic means of transportation, then I guess a DS is what you need and should do. I bought my VV because Victory had established a reputation for building the best handling crusier style bikes available to the public so why would I want to change that by using a car tyre on it? Then I consider my tyres and their condition as my health and well being part of my motorcycle life insurance. Consider if you buy a 250,000.00 house would you insure it for 20,000.00 with a policy designed for a tool shed just because it's cheaper in the long run even though its' performance in the event of a situation would be iffy at best or would need to be modified on the fly to resemble a home policy? I run m/c tyres because my life depends on just those two contact patches and what their attached to. The guy that figured out the differences between the two tyres and concluded that the vehicles they should be used on exhibited and exerted differences stresses and forces in the course of their respective operation and because the company he works for requires him to have a 5 yr. BS degree minimum and they pay him 6 figures for his work along with the fact that if car tyres were equally as good on both vehicles companies would only manufacture car tyres and market them for m/c use who am I to declare a car tyre appropriate and as safe, if not safer than a tyre designed for a m/c? If I can pay a few thousand for a m/c than I have no problem with a couple hundred every yr. or so for a fresh tyre designed specifically for that application. Just saying :-/ |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | Motorcycle companies are going to recommend motorcycle tires because they provide the greatest range of traction and handling. After riding 3k miles now on a CT, I can say the tire is not the limiting factor on the Vision, the bike is. I may not recommend a CT for all bikes, but for a 2 wheel luxury sofa, there is hardly a difference. I have scraped alot of floorboard off seeing if there is any difference within the narrow confines of a touring bike, and even though the Vision outperforms most other touring bikes, it still doesn't outperform the CTs.
Edited by Nozzledog 2011-11-24 1:17 PM
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Spending all most $300 every year for a rear tire is something that bugs the hell out of me. A CT for $120 and it last two years is very reasonable.
Yes at the begin there is more force you have to apply to the bars to go around cloverleafs ans twistys. For me as the mileage grew the pressure on the bars just seamed normal.
Guys say its just not right and should not be done well I feel the same about adding a GPS to the bike. Where's the adventure in doing that.
No a CT on the back is not for every one but then neither is a vision. If you want to find out try it you'll know in side of a week if its for you or not.
(IMG_0246.JPG)
Attachments
----------------
 IMG_0246.JPG (90KB - 0 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 185
Rhode Island | When the rear E3 starts making loud noises in the corners it tended to make me think that the contact area wasn't what it should be. I ran it at 41psi, checked a min of 2 times a week and at about 6k I started noticing the noise. So the tire is cupping that bad left me thinking that my contact area was reduced (not good). The next thing was when the rear tire broke loose in a heave rain when I was only running 35-40, again not good. Since installing the CT I got caught in one heavy down pour and the tire handled it like a champ.
So it leaves me feeling like I am better with the CT than the MT; all should do as they see fit and are confident with.
Ride safe,
Jim |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 222
Barefoot Bay, FL United States | A point to consider in the tirs grip failure in the rain is the VERY obvious difference in the tread and rain grooves. I insisted on an E2 on my last tire change for the front. The E3's just didn't have enought rain groove for me!! |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I put about $700 worth of tires on my bike every year for the last 4 years, all E3s and it has never bugged me. I usually have to do without eating out a few times a month, but that is something I need to do anyways. Also, never ever had an issue with E3s in the rain. Sorry, I was just keeping up with the DS comments and you all started talking M/C tires again and I just couldn't help myself. I'll slither back to my hole.... |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | varyder - 2011-11-25 5:01 PM
I put about $700 worth of tires on my bike every year for the last 4 years, all E3s and it has never bugged me. I usually have to do without eating out a few times a month, but that is something I need to do anyways. Also, never ever had an issue with E3s in the rain. Sorry, I was just keeping up with the DS comments and you all started talking M/C tires again and I just couldn't help myself. I'll slither back to my hole....
Ive also never had trouble with the E3s in the rain. They cupped horrible very quickly....but they worked well - just didnt last.
.............until I put a trailer on the bike. Stopping the Vision in the rain with a trailer on E3s.....thats interesting to say the least.
Pulling a trailer is where the car tire really starts to shine......or riding 2up with "larger" occupants. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I always get exceptable wear out of my E3 despite any preceived cupping. I can see where there is merit in using a car tire pulling a trailer or extreme road conditions like a ride to Alaska. |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 444
Bay of Gigs, WA | I still maintain that my BFG Radial All-Terrain T/A's are the best in the snow! And it holds the bike up without the kickstand, making checking the oil a snap!
(What kind of oil should I be using with my car tires, anyway?) |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | varyder - 2011-11-26 2:21 PM
I always get exceptable wear out of my E3 despite any preceived cupping. I can see where there is merit in using a car tire pulling a trailer or extreme road conditions like a ride to Alaska.
Maybe I did to....I got about 9K out of the rear. What do you usually get out of an E3? The front would have lasted longer if I was going by treadwear alone but the cupping was getting bad enough the bike required alot of bar input at low speeds. |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | I am really surprised the ferver DSing stirs up. I'm sure there are a few other old farts around here, but as I recall in the 70's we didn't even call it "dark siding"... we just called it putting on a car that was less expensive a lasted longer. I had a Kawasaki Z2 that I chopped. I don't remember even looking at motorcycle tires when I went looking for a new rear tire. Dig up old pictures of bikes.. MANY had car tires. I'm just surprised that so many years later it's a "thang" when at one time it was just what you did if you wanted a longer lasting tire. Also keep in mind that bike tires used to last longer then too. Probably due to less torque and speed and such... but I don't remember "buying tires" all the time being my topic of conversation like it has been in the past 10 years or so. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | Back in the '70's we didn't have the Internet either. So the exposure to the pro's and con's of running a darkside were not so amplified. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I think the real issue that the CT is made out to be something it is not, and that's better for the application for most riders. I truly don't have a thing against anyone riding a car tire on a bike, and it is just as much of the history and continues to be of our passion. Given the circumstances I would ride one on my bike, but as it stands now the only reason I would have is because I'm cheap and lazy. Sorry, that is just the way I see it. My E3s and my '08 without ABS has stood up to every test I've been faced with, and I'm fortunate enough to be able to buy motorcycle tires. If a car tire would give me the "SAME" ride as my E3s then I would run them all the time also. I don't want to get USED TO the ride, I like the ride I have. I've even comtemplated get another rim and have a CT mounted and use it during the week for work, and then putting back on the E3 for the weekend. I would do if if I was going to Alaska, or doing a whirl-wind tour of the US, but I like my E3 ride to change out now.
I say, ride, ride, ride the car tire, and put the truth behind it when you do, you want more mileage for a cheaper price, just the bottomline will do. |
|
| |
All Dark Siders (car tire) please step inside
