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New Bohemia, VA | AnotherMotorSnakeOIL
I will admit that a full synthetic allowed me to go a few miles more between changes, until my clutch start slipping at around 98,000 on hard throttles. When I used ANY JASO Rated Synthetic, it gave me the same service, just as when I use a JASO Rate Semi-Synthetic gives me the same service.
RB, from a previous question - our roads are fine now. Trying to get all the sand washed off that is still around when they went overboard with our few "snow" days. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | i try not to even go by the terms synthetic or semi synthetic. For the longest time those terms have meant hardly anything...Its more about the additives. The word synthetic many years ago used to mean something... http://www.ls1.com/forums/f7/defining-moment-synthetics-1-5-a-10215...
on a personal note, i would love to know what those oils had in it that YOUR vision doesnt like but others are just fine with? I completely believe you 110% in regards to your issues... no doubting it.. Stuff like this just really interests me thats all... similar to when you may read about how someones victory needed a trany replaced or at least a gear or what not.. it interests me as to what about THEIR transmission causes "issues/failure" where has others like yourself could reach 1,000,000 miles with no issues... =) |
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Tourer
Posts: 576
, IA | Amsoil aro |
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Tourer
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I know. Amsoil needs a new webmaster. That's screwed up. Go look at the product itself and pay particular attention to the applications listed.
Ronnie
Here's the Amsoil Powersport application guide, http://www.amsoil.com/products/power_sports_guide.pdf
Victory M/C are listed on page 56 as group 1 which happens to have the MCF 10w-40 and MCV 20w-50 listed.
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | tralphaz - 2014-05-01 8:34 PM
I know. Amsoil needs a new webmaster. That's screwed up. Go look at the product itself and pay particular attention to the applications listed.
Ronnie
Here's the Amsoil Powersport application guide, http://www.amsoil.com/products/power_sports_guide.pdf
Victory M/C are listed on page 56 as group 1 which happens to have the MCF 10w-40 and MCV 20w-50 listed.
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Like I said, that's screwed up and Amsoil needs to fix it.
Again, go look at the PRODUCT itself and see what applications are listed FOR THAT PRODUCT.
Ronnie |
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Tourer
Posts: 353
| rdbudd - 2014-05-01 7:16 PM
tralphaz - 2014-05-01 8:34 PM
I know. Amsoil needs a new webmaster. That's screwed up. Go look at the product itself and pay particular attention to the applications listed.
Ronnie
Here's the Amsoil Powersport application guide, http://www.amsoil.com/products/power_sports_guide.pdf
Victory M/C are listed on page 56 as group 1 which happens to have the MCF 10w-40 and MCV 20w-50 listed.
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Like I said, that's screwed up and Amsoil needs to fix it.
Again, go look at the PRODUCT itself and see what applications are listed FOR THAT PRODUCT.
Ronnie
I have the product and nowhere on the jug does it say "do not use in Victory Motorcycles", it does say suitable for all wet clutch applications and I have a wet clutch in both my Victory's, I guess that means it's fine. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | tralphaz - 2014-05-02 2:42 AM
rdbudd - 2014-05-01 7:16 PM
tralphaz - 2014-05-01 8:34 PM
I know. Amsoil needs a new webmaster. That's screwed up. Go look at the product itself and pay particular attention to the applications listed.
Ronnie
Here's the Amsoil Powersport application guide, http://www.amsoil.com/products/power_sports_guide.pdf
Victory M/C are listed on page 56 as group 1 which happens to have the MCF 10w-40 and MCV 20w-50 listed.
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Like I said, that's screwed up and Amsoil needs to fix it.
Again, go look at the PRODUCT itself and see what applications are listed FOR THAT PRODUCT.
Ronnie
I have the product and nowhere on the jug does it say "do not use in Victory Motorcycles", it does say suitable for all wet clutch applications and I have a wet clutch in both my Victory's, I guess that means it's fine.
Does it say "suitable for all wet clutch applications", or does it say "suitable for all wet clutch applications calling for a 15W-50 or 20W-50 oil, such as Harley, Buell, Ducati, Aprila, BMW, Triumph". Victory does not call for either of those oils, and neither do the Japanese bikes. They are NOT listed in the applications listed for the product. https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2090.pdf
Victory calls for a 20W-40 oil, or oils meeting that requirement.
Now, look at the 10W-40MCF. It says it is recommended for "all motorcycles" requiring a 10W-40 or 20W-40 oil, such as Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, BMW, Husqvarna, VICTORY. http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2089.pdf
The bikes listed for the 20W-50MCV are different than those listed for the 10W-40MCF.
When it says "all motorcycles using a wet clutch", that is not the end of the story. The whole story is "all motorcycles using a wet clutch and calling for an oil meeting 10W-40 or 20W-40 requirements".
Nearly every instance I have ever heard about where a Victory owner had clutch slippage on Amsoil was those using the Harley spec 20W-50MCV, which IS NOT specifically recommended for use in Victory OR the Japanese brands.
You can't just look at the bottle and see the JASO-MA rating and think you're good to go, whether it's Amsoil or some other brand of oil. There are other more specific requirements than just that alone. There are differing types of wet clutch materials among different motorcycle brands, which have different oil requirements. That JASO-MA rating is just ONE of SEVERAL requirements an oil must meet. It is not the "end all, do all" stand alone requirement by itself.
It's not just Amsoil. It's all brands, such as Royal Purple and others too. People have had trouble with other brands besides Amsoil, because all they looked at was the JASO-MA rating and failed to look at the rest of the specifications, and just "assumed". That's operator error.
You have to read past the beginning of the sentence and the words "all motorcycles" and see the rest of the qualifications, which amount to "all motorcycles calling for oils meeting a particular specification". That is not the same thing as "ALL MOTORCYCLES".
It's your bike. If it ever starts slipping the clutch, you were warned to not use oil specifically formulated for Harleys in a Victory or Japanese bike. About 1 in 4 people who use the wrong oil (20W-50MCV) in a Victory have clutch slippage. Your chances are pretty good you'll never have a problem.
Ronnie
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Visionary
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New Bohemia, VA | I used AMSOIL 20/50 in June/July 2010 when I rode to CA due to the higher temps, 100+ nearly daily. When I returned I went back to 20/40 AMSOIL and eventually went to Rotella, all full synthetic. I never felt I had any issues with a full Syn until around the 98,000 and I precieved I was getting clutch slippage. At that time, for sanity sake, I returned to the semi-syn blend and the issue cleared up. While it all can be argued whether what did what and when, I prefer to use a recommended semi-syn blend here on out and forever more. Apparently I didn't pay attention to the labeling of the AMSOIL 20/50 and took the advise from a forum (?) that it would be okay to use. My last 58,000 miles has been on a semi-syn and I'm still on the original clutch, so I'm happy. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Amsoil never changes color
Here is a year of reading about oil
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/ |
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Tourer
Posts: 411
Dallas, Texas | Still using and liking my 3 qts Brad Penn m/c 20W/50 and 1.5 qts Castrol full syn RS V-Twin 20W50 at each change. I call it a 'premium home made semi-syn'.
Edited by iluvink 2014-05-02 10:33 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | johnnyvision - 2014-05-02 6:25 PM
Amsoil never changes color
But, like most other oil brands, they do make specialized products for specific uses, with differing additive packages.
Amsoil 20W-50MCV is specifically formulated for the requirements set forth by the manufacturers of the brands they list for it, namely Harley, Buell, KTM, Ducati, BMW, and Triumph.
Why do you think they list only those brands for the MCV, or even go to the trouble to list any brands at all if it did not matter? Wouldn't they want to sell it to the owners of as many different brands as possible?
Amsoil 10W-40MCF is specifically formulated to meet the requirements set forth by the manufacturers of the brands they list for it, namely Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, BMW, Husqvarna, and Victory. The brands listed for the other oil are notably missing from the list.
Why do you think they list only those brands for that product, or even go to the trouble to list any brands at all, if "Amsoil never changes color"?
Why, when a poll was done asking about Amsoil use in Victory motorcycles, did virtually all the reported problems arise from the use of one Amsoil product in particular, the 20W-50MCV specifically, and not the other Amsoil products? Could it be because the MCV has additives that aren't recommended for the Victory or Japanese wet clutches, which is the reason they are not listed in the recommended applications for that particular product?
I'm a strong believer in using Amsoil, but I'm also a believer in using the correct product that is recommended for my bikes. That requires reading the manufacturers applications sheets for the particular products in question, and not just "assuming".
I linked to those applications sheets for your perusal and edification. Do with them as you wish.
Ronnie
Edited by rdbudd 2014-05-02 10:47 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| Well stated Ronnie.
Marc |
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Iron Butt
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| I was one of the unfortunate souls that had clutch slip with amsoil 10-40 mcf. I will say that the slip occurred only when very aggressive riding, but that's how I like to ride. After going back to 10-40 t5 rotella slip has been gone. Bummer, I wanted amsoil to work for me for longer rides and intervals |
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Visionary
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| I use Amsoil 10/40 and ask them it does not change color or go black like other oil. You go to all clutch manufactures and they will tell you they are made to work with synthetic oils. Most guys have tried five different brands of oil and expect there clutch to work. From stock to big bore stroker motors never had a clutch go bad cause of oil.
I never under stood guy that mix oil weights guess they never have read about what oils will do.
I have only work on motors from balancing rods and fly wheels to building bikes for forty some years. I'm no rookie when it comes to motors and clutches.
If you were selling oil wouldn't say its specific for a brand of motor to get more sales. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Check the oil on the dipstick. If it's black, change the oil. Experts say this is a myth, as is the related notion that you can identify spent oil by smell. "That is old school," says Kristen Huff, vice president of Blackstone Laboratories in Fort Wayne, Indiana. "Oil is meant to get dark ? it means it's doing its job," she says. As GM's Matt Snider says in this video, different additives change the oil's color. The bottom line: Black oil still has plenty of life left in it.
http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/top-7-urban-legends-about-motor-oil...
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| Johnnyvision,
Please stop trying to "understand" everything. Nobody is trying to talk anybody into anything. Simply answering questions. You do what you like and everyone else will do the same. Nobody is trying to recruit you or anyone else to be a oil minion. Nobody here is a idiot and we all make our own research and use our experiences to come up with our plan. As far as mixing I'll take the advice of the Shell chemist over what you or I know, and to say I must not have read what oils do is a pompous asshole thing to say and typical of a message board dbag, I have read and researched and that why I sought the advice of and posted the response of the shell chemist, if you can't "understand" that I can't help you and don't give a shit. If you can't "understand" why I don't use expensive oil it's because it's the only oil that caused my clutch to slip, that should be easy to "understand". That is awesome that some have not seen this and I am jealous.
Edited by jeffmack 2014-05-04 8:41 AM
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Cruiser
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Victoria Tx, TX United States | I have spoke to several "sales" and "engineers" @ shows and shops and phone... They ALL recommend their product!! UNTILL I say Victory... Had 1 say do not use our oil. Then asked me questions.. They may soon will have an oil for us riders. OTHERS I will ask ask ask hole them.. They said 20/40 is propitiatory and Polaris is KNOWN for this. We recommend 10/40 for your bike do not use the 50 wt. Your engine is not designed for it in the long run issues will arise. The 40wt will handle all the heat PLUS it match the factory 40wt requirements. Castrol does a semi synth. I use Maxima Extra 4 10/40 Synth. AND most likely go over to Suzuki 10/40 Synth. Both rated JASO MA. Maxima did tell me their oil will not effect my clutch. BASIC diff of oils Synth will flow easier and cuts heat and engines will last longer. Dino will flow less and less heat taken and engines will not last as long. I JUST LOVE THESE OIL SPATS!!
Edited by el spanky 2014-05-05 11:50 AM
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Cruiser
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Durango, Colorado | jeffmack - 2014-05-04 7:28 AM Johnnyvision, Please stop trying to "understand" everything. Nobody is trying to talk anybody into anything. Simply answering questions. You do what you like and everyone else will do the same. Nobody is trying to recruit you or anyone else to be a oil minion. Nobody here is a idiot and we all make our own research and use our experiences to come up with our plan. As far as mixing I'll take the advice of the Shell chemist over what you or I know, and to say I must not have read what oils do is a pompous asshole thing to say and typical of a message board dbag, I have read and researched and that why I sought the advice of and posted the response of the shell chemist, if you can't "understand" that I can't help you and don't give a shit. If you can't "understand" why I don't use expensive oil it's because it's the only oil that caused my clutch to slip, that should be easy to "understand". That is awesome that some have not seen this and I am jealous. AAaaawwwww SNAP ! |
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Visionary
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New Bohemia, VA | 
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | paulhu - 2014-05-05 2:14 PM AAaaawwwww SNAP ! It may be interesting to note I was using 20w50 Amsoil when I rolled through Durango in 2010. Did you see me? I stopped at the Super Wal-Mart to get some batteries for my camera. |
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Cruiser
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Durango, Colorado | I think I DID see you, weren't you that other hansome devil on that other really cool bike? Seriously though, next time through here give me a heads up and I'll treat you to some of the local color. I'm actually a little hurt you didn't call me the last time. WTF  Hope you rode some of the passes! paulhu |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I rolled 160 from I25 to just the otherside of Tuba City on my way to the Grand Canyon. I rolled over Wolf Creek Pass, which is up on the Great Divide. Fantastic ride through the plains. |
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Tourer
Posts: 411
Dallas, Texas | Brad Penn oil is awesome. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 5
| Every new bike I have owned got Amsoil Full Syn at 500 miles. Never a problem or issue. My transmission never slip and they shift like greased velvet. Period. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| CaptDenny - 2014-12-23 9:05 PM Every new bike I have owned got Amsoil Full Syn at 500 miles. Never a problem or issue. My transmission never slip and they shift like greased velvet. Period. I don't think Amsoil rec amends putting in there oil till motor is broke in so that would be after 25000 miles |
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Synthetic Oil
