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Iron Butt
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| BTW, if you have never ridden a modern motorcycle with an automatic transmission (yet with manual clutchless shifting if desired) you don't know what you are missing or how much fun they can be, especially as a commuter bike. My wife rides a Suzuki Burgman 650 which I prefer to call a step through motorcycle rather than a scooter due to the performance ability it has, and it is a blast when you are running errands around town. |
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Visionary
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Sand Rock, AL United States | Buying American is important because it supports and bolsters American jobs which we need more than ever. It doesn't matter where the parts are sourced from , buying American when possible still supports an American worker. I buy American WHEN I CAN / WHEN I'M AWARE OF AN AMERICAN OPTION. I've noticed that people who argue against it are usually trying to justify themselves and their imports with the tired argument of foreign parts that make up the American made product. You are still supporting an American worker /American economy with the purchase of an American product no matter the foreign content of the item, you put food on an American table. I , along with many others, feel a strong conviction to buy American WHEN AVAILABLE / WHEN WE ARE AWARE OF AN AMERICAN MADE OPTION. This is a free country, if you buy or own anything import, that's your business and your right but don't pretend and try to convince others the We the people who share this conviction are hypocrites or that it doesn't matter, because it does. Yes, I'm sure I have tons of import crap at my house but if there was an Amercian option, and I was aware of it, I would choose American. |
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Iron Butt
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Perry Hall, MD | Tempting lines, but that is where it stops. I swapped rides and took one 20 mile ride on a new wing and I couldn't wait to get back into my own saddle. Besides, the 2014 Vision is certain to have even greater aesthetic appeal, while retaining the floorboard and electric windshield features. |
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Iron Butt
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| jimtom - 2012-11-28 5:40 AM Buying American is important because it supports and bolsters American jobs which we need more than ever. It doesn't matter where the parts are sourced from , buying American when possible still supports an American worker. I buy American WHEN I CAN / WHEN I'M AWARE OF AN AMERICAN OPTION. I've noticed that people who argue against it are usually trying to justify themselves and their imports with the tired argument of foreign parts that make up the American made product. You are still supporting an American worker /American economy with the purchase of an American product no matter the foreign content of the item, you put food on an American table. I , along with many others, feel a strong conviction to buy American WHEN AVAILABLE / WHEN WE ARE AWARE OF AN AMERICAN MADE OPTION. This is a free country, if you buy or own anything import, that's your business and your right but don't pretend and try to convince others the We the people who share this conviction are hypocrites or that it doesn't matter, because it does. Yes, I'm sure I have tons of import crap at my house but if there was an Amercian option, and I was aware of it, I would choose American. +1 I wasn't trying to make excuses with my previous post, one of the reasons, besides the fact that it is a better and more reliable product than H-D and has a better comfort level, I switched from my Goldwing to the Vision is because even with some foreign sourced parts it is still built here in the United States. My wife and I have owned two new Kia Sorentos (2011 and 2013), a Korean owned company but with Sorento production and final assembly in a Georgia factory by American workers, it is one of the highest rated SUVs for safety and economy (my wife puts on 30K miles a year on her Sorento).
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Visionary
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Sand Rock, AL United States | Travelin Man - 2012-11-28 7:21 AM
jimtom - 2012-11-28 5:40 AM Buying American is important because it supports and bolsters American jobs which we need more than ever. It doesn't matter where the parts are sourced from , buying American when possible still supports an American worker. I buy American WHEN I CAN / WHEN I'M AWARE OF AN AMERICAN OPTION. I've noticed that people who argue against it are usually trying to justify themselves and their imports with the tired argument of foreign parts that make up the American made product. You are still supporting an American worker /American economy with the purchase of an American product no matter the foreign content of the item, you put food on an American table. I , along with many others, feel a strong conviction to buy American WHEN AVAILABLE / WHEN WE ARE AWARE OF AN AMERICAN MADE OPTION. This is a free country, if you buy or own anything import, that's your business and your right but don't pretend and try to convince others the We the people who share this conviction are hypocrites or that it doesn't matter, because it does. Yes, I'm sure I have tons of import crap at my house but if there was an Amercian option, and I was aware of it, I would choose American. +1 I wasn't trying to make excuses with my previous post, one of the reasons, besides the fact that it is a better and more reliable product than H-D and has a better comfort level, I switched from my Goldwing to the Vision is because even with some foreign sourced parts it is still built here in the United States.? My wife and I have owned two new Kia Sorentos? (2011 and 2013), a Korean owned company but with Sorento production and final assembly in a Georgia factory by American workers, it is one of the highest rated SUVs for safety and economy (my wife puts on 30K miles a year on her Sorento).
I wasn't refering to your posts. I was just saying I feel strongly about American workers. It is and always has been our nations lifeblood. The less support American jobs/workers gets the more American jobs that go away. The more American jobs that go away, the more America goes away. |
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Iron Butt
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Orlando, FL | Seems the pot has been stirred!! |
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Visionary
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Jasper, MO | Travelin Man - 2012-11-27 8:28 PM
Ronnie, I'm afraid you are a little mistaken when referring to the former Honda of America motorcycle manufacturing plant in Ohio. First, it is in Marysville, Ohio, which is just northwest of Columbus, Ohio (I've been to the old Honda Homecoming a few times), second, as far as manufacturing plants go, Honda manufactured the frames for the Goldwing, VTX, and 1100 Shadows on the premises and all paint work was also performed there, the engines for those three different bikes (actually four because of the 1800 and 1300 VTXs) were manufactured and assembled from U.S. sourced castings in the Alma, Ohio engine plant, and the abs body panels for the Goldwings were also sourced from U.S. manufacturers, and third, the primary reason given by Honda for moving motorcycle production back to Japan was to insure higher quality standards (if you know, Honda had MAJOR problems with the frames of the '01-'04 GL1800 Goldwings along with other issues) and to centralize all large displacement motorcycle manufacturing under one roof to better accommodate a fast changing global market. The only parts of the '84-'10 Goldwings that came from Japan or other foreign countries were the forks, brakes, wheels, and electronics. If you pull the tire off of the stock rim on your Vision you will find "Made in China" cast into the wheel, the forks and rear shock are sourced from Showa (a company partially owned by Honda) in Japan, if you pull your brake or clutch reservoir covers you will find that they are manufactured by Nissin as well as the brake calipers and proportioning valve in the linked braking system (the front calipers are the same ones used on the '02-'03 Honda VTX1800 and on all years of the GL1800 Goldwing) the only difference is that Victory paid Nissin to cast the Victory name into the calipers. The radio on our Visions is made here in the U.S. by the same company that first was putting audio on the old Vetter fairing, Cycle Sound although I believe they changed their name, personally if it would have been me I would have sourced the audio and CB equipment from either Clarion or Mitsubishi as they have both been manufacturing the audio systems for the Honda Goldwings (Clarion for the GL1100, GL1200, and GL1500, Mitsubishi for the GL1800) since the early 1980's.
That's what I said. The Goldwings were assembled from parts manufactured in Japan, Korea, China, and the USA in Marysville Ohio. Go back and read my post. The transmission cases were cast in the USA, but the gears that went into them and the engine came from Japan. My point was that the Goldwing wasn't "manufactured" in the USA. Much of the manufacturing, which creates wealth in the economies of the countries that do the actual manufacturing, was done somewhere else. The older Hondas that people like to say were "made in the USA" , like my old Honda CB900 Custom, had a sticker on the frame that read "assembled from parts manufactured in Japan and the USA" . The 2001 - 2010 Goldwing had nothing on them that read "Manufactured in the USA". Assembly and manufacturing are two completely different concepts. Sure, the American assembly plant worker has a job, but what about all the other manufacturing jobs that went overseas that could have been American jobs, but aren't? That was my point.
Sadly, Victory has moved in the same direction. They had to in order to compete in "the global economy" (read- race to the bottom of the economic wage scale). My 2000 Sport Cruiser had enough American manufactured parts that it came with a "Made In The USA" sticker and an American flag decal, with "Made In The USA" on the rear fender. The Victory boots I bought that year are also "Made IN The USA". Sadly, by the time Victory got around to producing my Vision, they had outsourced much of the manufacturing to Japan and China. My Vision is not "Made In The USA". It is ASSEMBLED in the USA. Like many other American jobs, those manufacturing jobs are lost to other countries. Like I said before, we have joined the "global economy" and the race to the economic bottom. That's bad. Very, very bad. When the "global economy" takes everybody's wages to the bottom, ours go with it. I liked it better when we had an independent economy. That is what allowed this country to become the most prosperous on earth. We are rapidly losing that.
American manufacturing jobs were very important. We've lost far too many of them. We, the USA, used to be the world's leading manufacturer and ran huge trade surpluses. Everybody else was in debt to US. Jobs were readily available and paid well. Now, we are the world's larger debtor nation, $16 Trillion in debt and counting, are literally selling the USA to China piece by piece, and have millions of people out of work and parasitically living off those who do still have a job here. I love my Victory bikes, but I'm not happy that they are only ASSEMBLED in the USA. That is not good enough.
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Iron Butt
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| Um Ronnie, please re-read my post, if you had ever visited the Honda engine plant in Alma, Ohio you would know that the Goldwing and VTX engines were MANUFACTURED there with US SOURCED INTERNAL PARTS, not merely assembled. The engine case, which in the case of all Hondas includes the transmission, had cast right in it "MADE IN U.S.A.". Other than a few parts like electronics, brakes, and suspension, the '01-'10 Honda Goldwing was as Made in U.S.A. as any Victory or Harley-Davidson.
I love my Victory but if you are going to talk crap about the competition such as Honda, at least truly educate yourself about the subject and I don't mean by listening or reading what is said by fellow riders. In the case of Honda I have been on multiple tours of both the Marysville assembly plant and the Alma engine plant (which still MANUFACTURES engines for the Honda Civic, Accord, and Element). |
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Visionary
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Jasper, MO | I'm quite familiar with the GL1800. Somehow, I missed the "Made In The USA" cast into the engine. I'll have to get my magnifying glass out and see if I can find it. It is my understanding that the frames for the Goldwing were made in Canada (per a dealer statement), and yes, I'm very aware of the cracked frames. And, the overheating motors and the transmissions jumping out of 5th gear. However, I have not been through the Marysville plant myself. I'll have to defer to you on that one. However, you may have been misled about where the parts being assembled were actually manufactured. When the Tsunami hit Japan, the assembly plants in Marysville were severely affected, because they couldn't get enough parts from Japan. http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2011/mar/30/honda-reductions-impact-mary...
As I recall, 3 or 4 GM plants also had to reduce operations because of the Japanese Tsunami, and so much of the GM products are assembled from parts manufactured in Japan.
I have been through the Spirit Lake Victory plant. I could see that it is an assembly plant. Parts are assembled there. Some of the parts were made here. Some weren't.
I'm not talking crap about Honda. I like Hondas. I've owned a few, as well as several Suzukis and a couple of Yamahas and two Kawasakis. I know that Victory and Harley (and Chevy and Ford)also assemble their products from parts manufactured elsewhere. That is what I'm complaining about. That is the point I am trying to make. We've lost too many jobs because we do not manufacture much here anymore. We assemble parts manufactured somewhere else. It doesn't matter which parts are made where, if they aren't made here. As I get older, I can see in hindsight just how important American manufacturing was to this country. We are losing that. We are going to pay the price. We are paying the price already, and it's going to get much worse if we don't bring manufacturing back to this country.
You will not find a post made by me anywhere on this forum or any other where I said I don't like Honda Goldwings. You will find posts made by me that say I like the Victory Vision better than a Goldwing and I list the reasons why. You will also find posts by me where I said that I consider the Goldwing and the Vision to be equal overall, with each one having some features better than the other.
You did not see me say I did not like the new Honda F6B. I did report that my friends who still ride Goldwings did not like it.
Ronnie
Edited by rdbudd 2012-11-28 10:11 PM
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Iron Butt
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| Ronnie,
I agree about the loss of American manufacturing as I am one of them, especially with my primary product line of cutting tools. My business has picked up dramatically in the past three months, just one of the reasons I fell behind on getting the second run of the jet exhaust tips machined, and now I'm in a position where I need to fill at least two full time positions (I'm currently down 10 employees to 6 from 2008 but I will never again go above 10 full time employees total due to Obamacare) with qualified machinists which are next to impossible to find due to people getting out of manufacturing jobs and into the service industry. Where as 20 or 30 years ago kids in high school either had a shop class that taught them basic machining skills or went to a vocational school to learn to become a machinist, today they are told in high school that if they do not attend college they will never become anything, which of course is a bunch of liberal B.S. The funny thing is that these are good paying jobs, between $50K to $60K for someone with even basic experience and I haven't been able to find one qualified applicant out of nearly 100 people that have applied and those who have applied run from right out of college expecting $80K a year to no machine shop experience at all where they can't even read or properly use a micrometer. We have lost a skill set in our workforce that will be next to impossible to replace in today's working environment and mindset.
That said, while the Honda F6B, which the name is a take-off of the original F6 Valkyrie, is a sharp looking bike, I feel it is Honda's late, very late, attempt to seize on the bagger fad, kind of like when Honda introduced the Fury, just a little late on the chopper scene. |
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Visionary
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Sand Rock, AL United States | Travelin Man - 2012-11-29 6:53 PM
Ronnie,
I agree about the loss of American manufacturing as I am one of them, especially with my primary product line of cutting tools. My business has picked up dramatically in the past three months, just one of the reasons I fell behind on getting the second run of the jet exhaust tips machined, and now I'm in a position where I need to fill at least two full time positions (I'm currently down 10 employees to 6 from 2008 but I will never again go above 10 full time employees total due to Obamacare) with qualified machinists which are next to impossible to find due to people getting out of manufacturing jobs and into the service industry. Where as 20 or 30 years ago kids in high school either had a shop class that taught them basic machining skills or went to a vocational school to learn to become a machinist, today they are told in high school that if they do not attend college they will never become anything, which of course is a bunch of liberal B.S. The funny thing is that these are good paying jobs, between $50K to $60K for someone with even basic experience and I haven't been able to find one qualified applicant out of nearly 100 people that have applied and those who have applied run from right out of college expecting $80K a year to no machine shop experience at all where they can't even read or properly use a micrometer. We have lost a skill set in our workforce that will be next to impossible to replace in today's working environment and mindset.
That said, while the Honda F6B, which the name is a take-off of the original F6 Valkyrie, is a sharp looking bike, I feel it is Honda's late, very late, attempt to seize on the bagger fad, kind of like when Honda introduced the Fury, just a little late on the chopper scene.
Amen! on all points. |
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Cruiser
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| There are pretty clear guidelines on what products can be shown as MADE IN USA or not.
http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard
FWIW, when you buy a car in the USA, the window sticker will indicate what percentage of parts are Made in USA/North America, or elsewhere.
I would gladly pay more for a Victory if it was able to sport the claim MADE IN USA and not just assembled in USA.
FYI, I believe the Victory engine and transmission are made at a facility in Wisconsin and shipped to Spirit Lake for final assembly. |
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Iron Butt
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Orlando, FL | Travelin Man - 2012-11-29 8:53 PM
Where as 20 or 30 years ago kids in high school either had a shop class that taught them basic machining skills or went to a vocational school to learn to become a machinist, today they are told in high school that if they do not attend college they will never become anything, which of course is a bunch of liberal B.S.
That said, while the Honda F6B, which the name is a take-off of the original F6 Valkyrie, is a sharp looking bike, I feel it is Honda's late, very late, attempt to seize on the bagger fad, kind of like when Honda introduced the Fury, just a little late on the chopper scene.
Yea, Damned liberals. Of course I hear the Right Wingers talking the need for more vocational schools all the time. (Please note the sarcasm dripping from that comment) It's a Brave New World, and not your Fathers Era anymore. We are a service not a manufacturing society today. Apple designs and creates the iPhone but it is made overseas. Profits come back to the US. The engineers and software designers are the future. Hence the need for a college education and the disappearance of technical-vocational schools. You may not like it, but that's where we have been moving for the last 30 years. With the advent of 3D printers the "manufacuring" of products might very well return to the US but it will not be the same industry. It will be a computer guided industry. Need a part? Download the software and "print" it! Need new Nike shoes? Buy the software for the shoe, and "print" it. Even NASA is using 3D printing to create parts that previously needed to be assembled and welded together! And a group of research scientists are working on an application that would allow the "printing" of human organs. Just google it for more info. Things change. The industrial revolution has come and gone. The tech and communication revolution is in full swing. Sorry guys. I miss the old days too.
And +1 on Honda's late entry once again. Surprisingly I think they will find a following for the new F6B. The real question is will they sell enough to keep it or will ot go the way of the Rune?
Now........ where is my flip phone? LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Edited by MaddMAx2u 2012-11-30 8:18 AM
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Visionary
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Sand Rock, AL United States | no, right wingers want Americans to rise up and make their own way, Gain a sense of worth, contribute to the system, it's how this country was built. liberals want Americans to sit back with open mouths and open hands sucking on hind tit as my pop used to say, while they feed them out of a tax payer pocket, it's how this country is being dismantled. Tax payer/worker becoming extinct. What will we do then? We have sold out our country.
Edited by jimtom 2012-11-30 8:23 AM
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Iron Butt
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Orlando, FL | Google NASA 3D printing. Here's one link. THis stuff is amazing and being used in many industries for plastic parts. NASA is doing it with metal!
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/140084-nasa-3d-prints-rocket-par... |
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Iron Butt
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Orlando, FL | jimtom, ok, whatever. But you missed the point. It was said that liberals were promoting college not tech-vocational schools. I was saying that NO ONE has been promoting vocational-technical schools!! And if liberals are promoting college, how does that match with your description of a liberal? Doesn't really match does it? Please, don't twist my words. This is not about party affiliation. It's not about liberal vs. Right wing. It's about the loss of manufacturing overseas. And that is just the evolution of our country.
Now..........did you find your flip phone? And don't forget to turn on the answering machine before you leave home.
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Cruiser
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Hartland, , WI | Look at the leg position....so the answer is clearly no. I got rid of my BMW LT for the single reason it killed my knees being locked into that position....just terrible ergonomic foot position. |
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Cruiser
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| rdbudd - 2012-11-28 6:30 PM
Travelin Man - 2012-11-27 8:28 PM
Ronnie, I'm afraid you are a little mistaken when referring to the former Honda of America motorcycle manufacturing plant in Ohio. First, it is in Marysville, Ohio, which is just northwest of Columbus, Ohio (I've been to the old Honda Homecoming a few times), second, as far as manufacturing plants go, Honda manufactured the frames for the Goldwing, VTX, and 1100 Shadows on the premises and all paint work was also performed there, the engines for those three different bikes (actually four because of the 1800 and 1300 VTXs) were manufactured and assembled from U.S. sourced castings in the Alma, Ohio engine plant, and the abs body panels for the Goldwings were also sourced from U.S. manufacturers, and third, the primary reason given by Honda for moving motorcycle production back to Japan was to insure higher quality standards (if you know, Honda had MAJOR problems with the frames of the '01-'04 GL1800 Goldwings along with other issues) and to centralize all large displacement motorcycle manufacturing under one roof to better accommodate a fast changing global market. The only parts of the '84-'10 Goldwings that came from Japan or other foreign countries were the forks, brakes, wheels, and electronics. If you pull the tire off of the stock rim on your Vision you will find "Made in China" cast into the wheel, the forks and rear shock are sourced from Showa (a company partially owned by Honda) in Japan, if you pull your brake or clutch reservoir covers you will find that they are manufactured by Nissin as well as the brake calipers and proportioning valve in the linked braking system (the front calipers are the same ones used on the '02-'03 Honda VTX1800 and on all years of the GL1800 Goldwing) the only difference is that Victory paid Nissin to cast the Victory name into the calipers. The radio on our Visions is made here in the U.S. by the same company that first was putting audio on the old Vetter fairing, Cycle Sound although I believe they changed their name, personally if it would have been me I would have sourced the audio and CB equipment from either Clarion or Mitsubishi as they have both been manufacturing the audio systems for the Honda Goldwings (Clarion for the GL1100, GL1200, and GL1500, Mitsubishi for the GL1800) since the early 1980's.
That's what I said. The Goldwings were assembled from parts manufactured in Japan, Korea, China, and the USA in Marysville Ohio. Go back and read my post. The transmission cases were cast in the USA, but the gears that went into them and the engine came from Japan. My point was that the Goldwing wasn't "manufactured" in the USA. Much of the manufacturing, which creates wealth in the economies of the countries that do the actual manufacturing, was done somewhere else. The older Hondas that people like to say were "made in the USA" , like my old Honda CB900 Custom, had a sticker on the frame that read "assembled from parts manufactured in Japan and the USA" . The 2001 - 2010 Goldwing had nothing on them that read "Manufactured in the USA". Assembly and manufacturing are two completely different concepts. Sure, the American assembly plant worker has a job, but what about all the other manufacturing jobs that went overseas that could have been American jobs, but aren't? That was my point.
Sadly, Victory has moved in the same direction. They had to in order to compete in "the global economy" (read- race to the bottom of the economic wage scale). My 2000 Sport Cruiser had enough American manufactured parts that it came with a "Made In The USA" sticker and an American flag decal, with "Made In The USA" on the rear fender. The Victory boots I bought that year are also "Made IN The USA". Sadly, by the time Victory got around to producing my Vision, they had outsourced much of the manufacturing to Japan and China. My Vision is not "Made In The USA". It is ASSEMBLED in the USA. Like many other American jobs, those manufacturing jobs are lost to other countries. Like I said before, we have joined the "global economy" and the race to the economic bottom. That's bad. Very, very bad. When the "global economy" takes everybody's wages to the bottom, ours go with it. I liked it better when we had an independent economy. That is what allowed this country to become the most prosperous on earth. We are rapidly losing that.
American manufacturing jobs were very important. We've lost far too many of them. We, the USA, used to be the world's leading manufacturer and ran huge trade surpluses. Everybody else was in debt to US. Jobs were readily available and paid well. Now, we are the world's larger debtor nation, $16 Trillion in debt and counting, are literally selling the USA to China piece by piece, and have millions of people out of work and parasitically living off those who do still have a job here. I love my Victory bikes, but I'm not happy that they are only ASSEMBLED in the USA. That is not good enough.
Ronnie
The big difference is when buying American, that little people seem to realize or talk of, when you buy a domestic, you are supporting far far far more employees because most the engineering and administration work is done in country. When you buy an import, most of their engineering and administration work is done in their home country. |
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Visionary
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Georgia, west of Atlanta | Looks allright, but NO I wouldn't buy one, have two touring bikes already. The Vision and my RG......No room for a stripped ( but cool looking ) GW. |
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Tourer
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| Gee, I wonder how many other forums ask people if they would consider a Vision. |
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Visionary
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Jasper, MO | IndyVision - 2013-01-01 4:48 PM
Gee, I wonder how many other forums ask people if they would consider a Vision.
At least four that I'm aware of. Just like here, most of the people on those forums are loyal to their current ride, convinced that they have the best. Most of them have strong opinions about why theirs is the best, but few have actually ridden a Vision. Some folks are kind to the Vision, but aren't willing to leave the herd to buy one (not just an HD thing either).
Just Google anything like Vision vs Goldwing or Vision vs Harley or Vision vs BMW, etc and you'll find links to those forums.
Ronnie |
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Puddle Jumper
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so.md. | no. be a patriot, buy american. |
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Cruiser
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Calgary, AB, | Sat on the new F6B this past weekend at our local bike show. It's only the 2nd Wing I've ever sat on , but at 6'3", I concur with others' comments about the leg room. It wouild be OK for a time period but not for multi hour rides. I did kind of like the look, at least vs the standards Wing. It's running about $ 21K Cdn funds (Honda List I guess) with no GPS, no reverse no center stand, rear box etc etc.
I'll stay with my Vision, which as others have said is the MOST comfortable bike I'd ever sat on. As soon as I did, I bought one! |
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Puddle Jumper
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Fernandina Beach, Florida | I'm late to this interesting and "enlightening" thread. For sure I can appreciate the passion in all the comments and emotions about "point of manufacture" and country of origin content. Nothing too much more I can add to that.
But, as a new Vision owner who loves the bike and it's ride, performance, and comfort, it would be hard to go to an F6B. Also making it tough is the 1997 Valkyrie F6 "bumble bee" sharing garage space with the Vision. It is a keeper for as long as I can ride heavy bikes. A perfect "mix and match" to the Vision. It is a Tourer, no trunk, solo Mustang seat when I want and has that fabulous flat 6 look and sound. Not to mention the great acceleration and torque "anywhere".
Sometimes I just look at both of them sitting there and pinch myself to remember how fortunate I am to enjoy 2 very special rides.
BTW, I voted that I would not buy an F6B over the Vision......  |
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Iron Butt
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, WI | I like the...................5 speed......................overdrive.......................transmission. And in 3 - 2 - 1 - |
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Would You Consider the New Gold Wing F6B?
