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Under the Rule of Jedi - Masshole | varyder... See what I mean? I think today is the day you need to ask him!
One year I was in Myrtle Beach for bike week, across the street from the hotel is North Myrtle Beach HD. I have a buddy the rides HD and I always grab him a shirt wherever I go. This particular year, I was in there, lines out the door to get clothes, and what cracked me up the most was the family with 4.3 kids, in their SoccerMomMobile, guy looked like he never even sat on a bike yet along ride one, buying up enough clothes to outfit the entire family. Got to love it!
I remember reading somewhere that OCC made $43,000,000 one year just off clothes!
Wonder how much H-D makes? |
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Cruiser
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Florida | In this economy, bike sales are slower than previous years. Yes, Victory is up (percentage wise) and H-D is down. H-D dealer inventories are at record highs right now and the dealers are hurting. With Victory delivering bikes that don't require frequent shop visits, the H-D riders will slowly start checking out Victory's lineup...but this type of transition will take time and you won't see this until the economy transitions upwards. Remember, H-D has nearly a 100 year head start and has developed a sense of community to its owners and a brand name that is as recognizable as Coca-Cola or IBM. Victory has yet to accomplish a strong brand name or a sense of community yet and these things take time. After all, have you ever seen anyone with a Victory tattoo? H-D is an emotional purchase and Victory is an educated purchase.
As you know by doing a Google search, there's an abundant amount of H-D enthusiasts websites out there and very few Victory sites. This will change in the future as more bikes are sold (not just the Vision, but the full line) and will assist in developing Victory as a brand. It's like a snowball...H-D has a big one and Victory is just getting started. More websites will give potential buyers multiple places to go for information and opinions. I don't know about you, but I attend the monthly rider meetings at the Victory dealership and each month, there are more and more riders who show up. This is a good sign.
I can also predict that Victory will be adding to its lineup as currently there are "holes" in its line. Don't laugh, but the hot sellers right now (unit wise) are scooters as many new buyers are looking for gas-saving alternatives to driving their car for short trips. It seems that since Victory (Polaris) is in the Snowmobile and ATV business, the addition of a few scooters could be the right product for these times. While the Scooter buyer may not be the Vision buyer, any increase in store traffic will increase exposure to the full line for future purchases and increase the brand awareness that Victory has yet to achieve.
I still find it amazing that when folks see my Vision, most have never heard of Victory and have not idea that it's an American bike. While Victory is running ads on some of the smaller cable channels, this is a start, but not enough to build brand awareness or community. Again, these things take time.
One thing you might want to tell your H-D buddies is that you don't HAVE to carry a tool kit as they rarely break down. Watch their faces.
However, there's only one question I have not been able to adequately answer to a knowledgeable H-D rider....Will Polaris stick with Victory or dump it like they did the personal watercraft line? We're all gambling they stick with it as they are great bikes. But again, so were its watercraft.
Nonetheless, we know we are riding a great bike built with the latest in technology. As more Visions and Victory's hit the road, people will start to sense that while driving a nostalgia bike might be cool, it's just being part of the crowd (and they call themselves individuals) and at some point they will realize that while H-D's are good bikes, technology has passed them by. If you've ridden with H-D riders, watch what happens when you cross railroad tracks...they slow down and stand on the pegs while we simply continue riding as if nothing was there.
Ten years from now, when we look back, it will be interesting to see what type of company Victory has grown into. We can only hope they will continue to add to its line, pump of the quality of the dealerships and still maintain the quality and reliability they have today. I also hope they develop better customer relations as they are lacking in this arena right now. Again, these things take time.
H-D has a problem and it's a difficult one for them. If they introduce a state of the art tour bike, they could alienate their current customer base as it most likely wont look like a nostalgic Harley. Isn't this what happened with the V-Rod? Didn't H-D owners diss it when it was introduced as it didn't "look like a Harley?"
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Tourer
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Savannah, GA -Year round riding!! Yay! | sandman - 2008-05-06 5:23 PM ....and see if their butts are still talking to them.  My butt talks to me all of the time, much to my husband and son's dismay!!! This began long before I got my Vision!!!
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Tourer
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Savannah, GA -Year round riding!! Yay! | My hubby & I own an independent MC clothing, apparel and accessory store. We have some H-D hats, decals, shot glasses, etc., in addition to a LARGE variety of non-branded MC accessories. It amazes me how many people come in to buy things with a bar and shield on it, because they "love motorcycles", but have never rode before. But tot hem, if it says "HD" on it, it means bikes. Several people that have bought their first bike, and bought an HD, because they thought it was th only way to ride, and if you ride anything else, it's just a substitution. Kinda like, "I need a Kleenex". "I ride a Harley". HD has their branding way into people's psyche.
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | PalmBeachRider - 2008-05-08 1:23 PM In this economy, bike sales are slower than previous years. Yes, Victory is up (percentage wise) and H-D is down. H-D dealer inventories are at record highs right now and the dealers are hurting. With Victory delivering bikes that don't require frequent shop visits, the H-D riders will slowly start checking out Victory's lineup...but this type of transition will take time and you won't see this until the economy transitions upwards. Remember, H-D has nearly a 100 year head start and has developed a sense of community to its owners and a brand name that is as recognizable as Coca-Cola or IBM. Victory has yet to accomplish a strong brand name or a sense of community yet and these things take time. After all, have you ever seen anyone with a Victory tattoo? H-D is an emotional purchase and Victory is an educated purchase. As you know by doing a Google search, there's an abundant amount of H-D enthusiasts websites out there and very few Victory sites. This will change in the future as more bikes are sold (not just the Vision, but the full line) and will assist in developing Victory as a brand. It's like a snowball...H-D has a big one and Victory is just getting started. More websites will give potential buyers multiple places to go for information and opinions. I don't know about you, but I attend the monthly rider meetings at the Victory dealership and each month, there are more and more riders who show up. This is a good sign. I can also predict that Victory will be adding to its lineup as currently there are "holes" in its line. Don't laugh, but the hot sellers right now (unit wise) are scooters as many new buyers are looking for gas-saving alternatives to driving their car for short trips. It seems that since Victory (Polaris) is in the Snowmobile and ATV business, the addition of a few scooters could be the right product for these times. While the Scooter buyer may not be the Vision buyer, any increase in store traffic will increase exposure to the full line for future purchases and increase the brand awareness that Victory has yet to achieve. I still find it amazing that when folks see my Vision, most have never heard of Victory and have not idea that it's an American bike. While Victory is running ads on some of the smaller cable channels, this is a start, but not enough to build brand awareness or community. Again, these things take time. One thing you might want to tell your H-D buddies is that you don't HAVE to carry a tool kit as they rarely break down. Watch their faces. However, there's only one question I have not been able to adequately answer to a knowledgeable H-D rider....Will Polaris stick with Victory or dump it like they did the personal watercraft line? We're all gambling they stick with it as they are great bikes. But again, so were its watercraft. Nonetheless, we know we are riding a great bike built with the latest in technology. As more Visions and Victory's hit the road, people will start to sense that while driving a nostalgia bike might be cool, it's just being part of the crowd (and they call themselves individuals) and at some point they will realize that while H-D's are good bikes, technology has passed them by. If you've ridden with H-D riders, watch what happens when you cross railroad tracks...they slow down and stand on the pegs while we simply continue riding as if nothing was there. Ten years from now, when we look back, it will be interesting to see what type of company Victory has grown into. We can only hope they will continue to add to its line, pump of the quality of the dealerships and still maintain the quality and reliability they have today. I also hope they develop better customer relations as they are lacking in this arena right now. Again, these things take time. H-D has a problem and it's a difficult one for them. If they introduce a state of the art tour bike, they could alienate their current customer base as it most likely wont look like a nostalgic Harley. Isn't this what happened with the V-Rod? Didn't H-D owners diss it when it was introduced as it didn't "look like a Harley?" Okay, okay! We will not change the HDer, nor am I any longer concern to do so. Merrily we go down the highway on our motor, enjoying ever rotation of the wheel. I applaud HD because of the tenacity of the industry to stay alive. Look at all of the wannabe harleys in the ricer community, to include the beloved Wing. So, yes they've made an impact on people and people associate motorcycling with HD. Of course to the HDer, you either ride a Harley or you ride a motorcycle if it's anything but a Harley, to include the V-Rod. So I take my hat off to HD to say thank you for making the market so successful that a company such as Victory can survive and even thrive in it today. I never see Victory making a scooter, that's a Polaris thing, so don't be looking for a Victory Vespa (sorry Pololittle), but I can see a Polaris Vision scooter on the horizon. By the way, I picked up a copy of Motorcycle Times a Mid-Atlantic publication for dealers and not even a squeak about Victory, ad, nothing. But they did have Polaris in there. One final note, nobody can bash a Vision, say what they want to say, it doesn't matter to me if Victory never sells another Vision ever, they made the one I've always wanted and that's enough for me.  |
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Cruiser
Posts: 257
Under the Rule of Jedi - Masshole | PalmBeachRider - 2008-05-08 1:23 PM
SNIP----> After all, have you ever seen anyone with a Victory tattoo? H-D is an emotional purchase and Victory is an educated purchase.
Every morning when I shower! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | Trixie, you nailed it, it is in their pysche. It was put there by years and years of telling people that if you going to be a real motorcycle rider, your going to ride American Iron.........HD.
Harley rider walks up to me and the Vision at a gas station, she says, hey man I just gotta get a look at this, haven't seen one up close, how do you like it? I say it is a nice bike, he says, yah man, "I just can't get my head around it". He says, how does it ride, I say, it rides real good, very comfortable, he say, man, "I just can't get my head around it". This goes on for about three more questions, he keeps saying the same thing, "I just can't get my head around it". Finally, I told him I had to leave.
After reading Trixie's comments, I finally realized, someone has not told him to get his head around it. It is all in brand advertising, marketing, etc........HD has done a fine job since they took back the company from the bowling ball company in the 80's. They may not make what we feel is a great product, but they do market well by getting into peoples pysche.......how do you see yourself. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | Miles made a great comparison about Harleys being like a Fender Strat. It's not about the technology, it's about the icon. If Harley builds a bike to compete with the Vision it will be on the V-Rod platform. There will always be a market for the Fender Strats and air cooled Harleys. Just don't compare them to more modern alternatives. It doesn't matter. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 256
Florida | I don't know if the V-Rod frame can support a full Tour bike. But I'll be there's a few Visions (and other Victory models) sitting in pieces at the R & D facility in Milwaukee.
I was at the local H-D store a few weeks ago and the sales and wrench guys came out to take a look. The wrench was on his knees looking at the engine and commented that he heard these things don't require much service...he said it in a disappointing way. Then he noticed the battery-tender connection on the front and asked me if I added it. I told him no, that it was included. He scratched his head. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | V-Rod Harley = Modern Harley. If they want to move ahead with aerodynamics, suspension, a better powerplant and all of the other things that define a bike as "modern or futuristic" they have to go with the V-Rod. They can't/won't mess with the looks of the classics. No matter how much they "modernize" them, they will always be stuck in the past. Ness going with Victory is like Clapton leaving Fender. It was a huge move of confirmation for Victory. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | PalmBeachRider - 2008-05-08 3:21 PM I don't know if the V-Rod frame can support a full Tour bike. But I'll be there's a few Visions (and other Victory models) sitting in pieces at the R & D facility in Milwaukee. I was at the local H-D store a few weeks ago and the sales and wrench guys came out to take a look. The wrench was on his knees looking at the engine and commented that he heard these things don't require much service...he said it in a disappointing way. Then he noticed the battery-tender connection on the front and asked me if I added it. I told him no, that it was included. He scratched his head. Are you sure he wasn't turned upside down? After all, he's a Harley wrench... |
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Cruiser
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rhode island | Gagirltrixie, My butt has a pretty small vocabulary, it tells me when we've had enough riding for the day and when to
go to the bathroom. Whats you'rs telling you?
Edited by sandman 2008-05-08 4:58 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 64
Northern RI | Notice all the dates of when these guys & gals registered into the forum. 90% of them is less than 2 years, and of that 90% I'll bet 90% of those have never owned a bike. I liked reading JDRider tell of how he looks at the ground to make turns, and proceeds to say that it's the bikes fault that he fell over w/his wife on the back during a test ride. If any one is on that forum could you relay a message and tell him you "never" look at the ground while turning.  |
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Cruiser
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Park City, Utah | my .02 here. Polaris needs to quit feeling SO proud of who they are and take their name OFF the logo. I love my Vision. I loved my kingpin. but the Polaris name is NOT a drawing card for a high line bike. It fits four wheelers and Sleds. This is ALL about branding. In fact, it can be guilt by association. Build a bad model of a sled ( like the 900RMK ) and bike buyers will hear about it via the internet. If my Porsche said built by VW under the name Porsche... I would not have a Porsche. I have felt this way since about the time Poo committed to get this bike brand right and brought Ness in, built a great tranny and motor, out styled everyone... but to my friends, it's just a Polaris. It's an identity crisis that the HD guys don't have. Simple is always better.
The HD guys who bash will always bash. who cares. Proof is in the pudding with my ride. And I will ride with anybody on anything that can be there at every stop. It's about riding. It's about personal choice. I sold my Porsche and got a lowly Z06 Vette. shame on me the arrogant ones said. I LOVE my car too. the only one it matter to is the guy with the title.  )) me.
and this is NOT an anti Polaris comment. I have a Sportsman 700 and a Custom sled that started life as a Polaris and sill looks like one in the hood and bulkhead areas.
Just take the name off the VICTORY bikes and clothes. It has come up with some at my dealer too and most agree.
Edited by Rock Star 2008-05-08 6:44 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| I actually find this post kind of funny. First let me introduce myself a bit. I have been riding for around 35+ years and have owned just about every brand at some point through those years. Last few bikes were a couple Goldwings, and a couple HD Road Glides when I could no longer ride the wings (medical issue). With this said I have no BRAND loyalty and have only had my Vision for a few weeks. The last 200k was ridden on a pair of HD Road Glides of which I never had any mechanical or other issues so needless to say I have NOTHING bad to say about Harleys.
Now when I was frequenting the HD forum I read comments about this and that, and now that I'm here I hear comments about this and that. Guess what I'm saying is folks bash other brands and its almost like its part of the package when you buy. You ride a Vision and its gotta be faster, smoother, etc.... Buy a HD and the Vic is ugly, a GW wannabe, etc...
Funny part is we all ride with folks of different brands and none of us take these comments as serious when we are out paling around. Rather we take them as they are, mild brand rivalry.
Have a look around here and you'll find commens comparing the HD 96 to the Vision 106 and the same said rivalry. I frankly don't feel a big difference in power or speed between bikes. My RG had great characteristics and so does my Vision, otherwise I wouldn't have bought it. Both have weakness which we tend to play down. But here is something to consider: Whether you are riding a Vision, Kingpin, Suzi, Honda, Kawi, or BMW..... at the end of the day we ALL compare what we ride to the Harley.
So I would suggest that rather than seeing the post on the HD forum as an insult, consider it a compliment. After all the Vision got noticed by an aweful lot of HD riders.
Just my thoughts....... T |
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Tourer
Posts: 320
Savannah, GA -Year round riding!! Yay! | Ya know, I've never understood the bashing of one product. I am such a "Moto Ho". If I had a little bigger budget and a lot bigger garage... I would have one of darn near everything. My hubby is one of those die hard, brand loyal guys. Up until this Victory, all we ever owned were Hondas, eight of them between the two of us. All of our cars are GM, modern and classics. You guys don't want to know what I had to do to talk him into letting me get the Vision.... (or maybe I should post pics.... ) I have my eyes on a Road Glide, an M109, a V Rod, a Stratoliner Midnight, a Mean Streak, a Rocket III, even a CanAm Spyder (that falls under motorcycle, right??). He is very anti- Harley, in principle.... although there is an '81 Dyna Wide Glide Shovelhead on my carport right now, to be fixed up and sold (he loves that most "Harley enthusiasts" will pay $$$$$ for an old bike....). Not to bash any brand, but I'm not big on that bike. I rode the Shovelhead around the parking lot and that was as far as I want to go with it. The vibration through the rubber mounted handlebars had my hands numb, the little ol' seat gave me an instant wedgie. But, I digress... I will ride anything that falls into my comfort zone (big, cushy, lots of power and sleek lines). I'm not the "roughing it" type of gal. I call my ViVi my big comfy couch, my VTX my brick, and my ST "For Sale" (no comparison in comfort for that touring bike after getting my butt in a Vision). If my husband lets me.... (or I can maybe hitch a ride to the dealership to sign the papers... )
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 21
D/FW Texas | My stock reply is "I've stepped into the 21st century....you're still riding 105 year old technology."
With all due respect, you may want to rethink your "stock reply". Harleys and Victories are more alike than different. Other than some of the "gadgets" on the Vision, the current platform itself is an evolutionary version of what was originally brought to market in the early 1900s (not that it's a bad thing). Keep in mind too that Harley has some significant features/options available that Victory doesn't - including throttle-by-wire, ABS, etc.
I'm just saying... |
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Visionary
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Brighton, TN | Stock reply, highly modified reply, nitrous'd reply. Does it really matter? This is just as bad as any other kids growing up, how their particular stick (didn't have PS2, PS3, Psp, etc.) was better, longer, could be thrown further, unbreakable, and just all around awesome stick. So basically, I have a stick that i paid a lot of money for and neet to continually convince myself and others of its all around capacity to perform better than everybody else. Me and my stick have an Ego problem. Need to go find my counselor, and tell them that my stick is still bigger than theirs. |
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Cruiser
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Las Vegas, Nevada USA baby! | I have been watching and reading this discussion since the 6th of May, when it first was posted. I rode a Harley at one time and loved it - at the time. I've moved on. This post kind-of sounds like an Harley bashing post that is trying NOT to sound like a Harley bashing post. Just my opinion.
EdRadio |
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | I'm just talkin' bout a stick, I dunno what a Harley is! By counting the rings on mine, it is less than a year old. It is in need of a new leaf cause the old one quit workin'. But other than that, it'll still fly farther, look better, and is just down right cooolller than yours. So, in short, nana nana boo boo! (stick tongue out, thumbs in ear, fingers in air waving back and forth). So there! |
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Cruiser
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Las Vegas, Nevada USA baby! | 10-4 on the stick pollolittle.
I grew up in isolation on a farm in Montana raising dental floss, so I guess I missed out on the comparison stuff.
Just had to make-do to have fun. Still makin'-do, still having fun! Sometimes I gotta step in some do, too! |
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Tourer
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Savannah, GA -Year round riding!! Yay! | sandman - 2008-05-08 4:58 PM Gagirltrixie, My butt has a pretty small vocabulary, it tells me when we've had enough riding for the day and when to go to the bathroom. Whats you'rs telling you? Mine sings, when it's happy! Like after a good meal!!
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Cruiser
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Frisco, TX | VICTORYTCRIDER - 2008-05-06 1:51 PM Found this Hardley (sorry Harley) froum bashing the Vision. Some of the comments are priceless. http://hdforums.com/m_3043493/tm.htm I read this and was remembering the 500+ miles I put on a Harley Electra Glide Ultra Classic back in 2004. Maybe they've gotten better now? But I doubt it. Anyway, I located the 3 posts I made for reviewing the 2005 Harley Electra Glide Ultra Classic and have the links below. I read them again and laughed at something I wrote. Here it is: "Basically, the Harley is a noise maker and heat generator and only should be used as a motorcycle during emergencies." At the time of these posts, I owned a Kawasaki Vulcan 2000 or better known as a "rogue" amongst our group and I made some comparisons and use the word "rogue". Just letting you know. BTW, I pissed off a few people with these posts. Maybe these should be posted on the HD site? Report #1:
nntp://rogueownersgroup.com/local.vulcanowners.rogue/<42225-SnapperMsg0F4BAB71BDC99693@10.200.121.233> Report #2:
nntp://rogueownersgroup.com/local.vulcanowners.rogue/<2270-SnapperMsg0F4BAB71BDCA771D@10.200.3.140> Report #3:
nntp://rogueownersgroup.com/local.vulcanowners.rogue/<8qdn1sxnekxyfgs.251120041153@craftlogicsoftware.com>
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Cruiser
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rhode island | GAgirltrixie
L.O.L forgot about the magic beans, And beer fart's. Hey by the way i saw your my space pic's , especially liked the pic.
of you all painted up. It was only up a few day's then disapeared.
Edited by sandman 2008-05-15 1:02 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 257
Under the Rule of Jedi - Masshole | Fergy...Big JW told me to be on the look out for you. I hear your a trouble maker over on that rouge site. Something about spreading rumors about how much you like your Vision.
Would you post something like this: "That's an overweight smiley. " |
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Check out the Hardley riders bashing the VISION!
