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Moravia, IA | donetracey - 2010-12-22 1:36 PM
Why not add a 3rd wheel for those days when motorcycling is not your thing. Why not... Does riding on 3 wheels make me LESS of a motorcyclist then you?
While I do ride both in the winter....when the snow is deep or its icy then the Ural comes out and the Vision stay away.
As for the car tire - I run 35 psi in my Bridgestone Potenza. I didnt assign it any numbers like the original poster....but its easy to tell there is more grip there....you can feel it. Launch hard on MC tires....you get spin. Do it on a car tire, it hooks up and the front wheel eases of the ground. Ive got a corner in front of my house Im so used to riding that I can step the rear end out powering out of it....on MC tires. Tried that after I went to the car tire and it hooked up....lightened the front tire.....and I ended up in the neighbors yard. Same story in the rain......hammer on the brakes with the MC tire.....they lock and you get skid. Do it with a car tire and you just stop. Thats good enough for my comprehension of "grip" for me to ascertain that I have more now then I did with the Elite 3's. Is it for everyone...well no, of course not. Do they put car tires on new motorcycles....well, they have before. Boss Hoss motorcycles used to come out from the factory with car tires on them. ......and motorcycles have been riding around on square'r tires then my Bridgestone Potenzas for a loooong time with no problems. Check out that "motorcycle tire" on the right there.
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Tampa, Fl United States | aaronrkelly - 2010-12-23 6:37 AM
donetracey - 2010-12-22 1:36 PM
Why not add a 3rd wheel for those days when motorcycling is not your thing. ? ? Why not... Does riding on 3 wheels make me LESS of a motorcyclist then you?
?
While I do ride both in the winter....when the snow is deep or its icy then the Ural comes out and the Vision stay away.
? As for the car tire - I run 35 psi in my Bridgestone Potenza. ? I didnt assign it any numbers like the original poster....but its easy to tell there is more grip there....you can feel it. Launch hard on MC tires....you get spin.? Do it on a car tire, it hooks up and the front wheel eases of the ground. Ive got a corner in front of my house Im so used to riding that I can step the rear end out powering out of it....on MC tires.? Tried that after I went to the car tire and it hooked up....lightened the front tire.....and I ended up in the neighbors yard. Same story in the rain......hammer on the brakes with the MC tire.....they lock and you get skid.? Do it with a car tire and you just stop. Thats good enough for my comprehension of "grip" for me to ascertain that I have more now then I did with the Elite 3's. Is it for everyone...well no, of course not. Do they put car tires on new motorcycles....well, they have before.? Boss Hoss motorcycles used to come out from the factory with car tires on them. ......and motorcycles have been riding around on square'r tires then my Bridgestone Potenzas for a loooong time with no problems.? Check out that "motorcycle tire" on the right there.
? ?
I couldn't have said it better as far as putting the car tire in perspective to your motorcycle experience
Thanks for your input on tire pressure!!
Merry Xmas!!!
FRED |
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Tourer
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Tucson, AZ | BTW, I ran 32 psi on my Valkyrie. The VV is a heavier bike so I'll start out at 34, and go from there. |
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Central Wisconsin | picard - 2010-12-22 10:56 PM Thomas - 2010-12-22 6:41 PM turbobuick - 2010-12-22 8:44 AM ... ...MY Question to Existing DarkSiders is what Tire Pressure are you Running???? ? ?For 2up I run 38 lbs in the rear and 38 in the front.  ?
? Your passenger looks a little concerned there.... Your probably right, that pic is from the dragon US129. She kept howling slow down something was scraping. LOL!
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Cold Lake Alberta Canada | I run my potenza at 34 psi and it works great for me. If you are into the Dark Side then cool. If not I can respect that too. But I will never own a MC rear tire again. |
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Moravia, IA | Jim Millington - 2010-12-24 12:50 AM
I run my potenza at 34 psi and it works great for me. If you are into the Dark Side then cool. If not I can respect that too. But I will never own a MC rear tire again.
Im a hardcore darksider but even I wont say that.
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......cause I run a rear MC tire on the front of the Vision - FAR better wear.  |
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Fargo, ND | Mine works great... 
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Akron, Ohio | I switched at the end of the summer. Didn't get a chance to get a tone of miles on, but like and am going to stay Dark. I started out with 32psi and for me that was too soft. I went to 38psi and now run that front and rear and like it very well.
I am supprised that no one else cought this in the January 2011 Rider Magazine. On page 12 in the add for the Bushtec Trailer pulled by Laura Klock, who was the pilot of the original "WORLDS FASTEST BAGGER", look at the rear tire of her bike....yup, a car tire. Guess this means they are SAFE for HIGH SPEED. Just an observation.
And for those who don't have the magazine, she rides a Victory Vision.
Edited by handyhiker 2010-12-24 11:17 AM
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Moravia, IA | handyhiker - 2010-12-24 11:15 AM
I am supprised that no one else cought this in the January 2011 Rider Magazine. On page 12 in the add for the Bushtec Trailer pulled by Laura Klock, who was the pilot of the original "WORLDS FASTEST BAGGER", look at the rear tire of her bike....yup, a car tire. Guess this means they are SAFE for HIGH SPEED. Just an observation.
Nah......means nothing.
See in all my dealings with riders Ive learned one thing about those that are anti-darkside.
They will NEVER believe that a car tire has any place on a motorcycle unless they hear it from a MC manufacturer or a tire company.....and maybe it would have to be both.
Thousands of people using them with great results and the absolute lack of reports of any failures means nothing to them.
Some people can think for themselves.....some cant.
You cant make one into the other. |
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Visionary
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New Bohemia, Va | I'm not a naysayer, it's just not for me at this time. I do question given a skilled rider under exact circumstances that one would out do themself on a CT vs MT? If that be the case the track racer bikes would be using them wouldn't they?
I applaud those who run a CT and put them to the test. It speak more to you as a rider than using a CT. Also, look at all that money you save and time not having to change tires so often.
Edited by Cap'n Nemo 2010-12-24 11:45 AM
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Akron, Ohio | I run a CT. However I really doubt that you will ever see one on a race bike that does hard lean angles. On drag bikes you can't beat them. The folks that started using them were the heavy cruisers with limited lean angle. They are great for this, but do have a limited use for other bikes. I truly believe that if the Vision had much more of a lean angle, I would not use one. Just as I could never see putting one on my old V-Strom. However I did just wear out the center of the tires on that bike. (Damm straight roads in northern Ohio). |
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Moravia, IA | Cap'n Nemo - 2010-12-24 11:41 AM
I'm not a naysayer, it's just not for me at this time. I do question given a skilled rider under exact circumstances that one would out do themself on a CT vs MT? If that be the case the track racer bikes would be using them wouldn't they?
The darkside is not for sport bikes. Ive seen car tires on sport TOURING bikes....but never on a sport bike.
The Vision (and MOST) street bikes cannot attain lean angles sharp enough to cause problems on a car tire. There simply isnt enough available lean there - hard parts will keep you from running out of "tread".
A sport bike CAN.....a MotoGP bike CAN......thats why you wont see them on race bikes. You wouldnt even need to be THAT good of a rider to lean a sport bike over far enough to run out of "tread" on a car tire.
Put a skilled rider on a Vision with car tire vs Vision with a MC tire......THAT would be a far comparison. Then again, whats the point. As those of us running car tires arent in it to "shave a few seconds" off lap times so why stick the bike on a track - thats not its purpose.
We need to measure something else.......stuff like grip in all weather conditions, ride ability, weight handling, ride etc. These things are much better experience on actual roads during rides then on a track or under controlled environments.
I guess what Im trying to say is that someone that will put a car tire on a bike and ride it across the country is more of a resource on information then someone who has ridden one on a track or around the block.
Real riders can give you all the information you need. Read on any of the forums that deal with touring - there is PLENTY of info out there.
Decide for yourself if its for you.......
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Corona, CA | One other very important issue is that you can get a CT with runflat capabilities !
That is worth it right there for me. |
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Corona, CA | 
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Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | You Darksiders are a riot! Lots of fun! Hell - some of you probably believe most of your braking comes from the rear. Slays me! Keep it up ... !!! |
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Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | OH~ I forgot. I have driven a Boss Hawg - 400HP Vette engine. How many of you had done that? And tell me how much fun it was to make it TURN????
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Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | donetracey - 2010-12-24 7:42 PM OH~ I forgot. I have driven a Boss Hawg - 400HP Vette engine. How many of you had done that? And tell me how much fun it was to make it TURN???? Me and my now deceased Wonderful Co-Pilot.... Merry Christmas ALL !
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Moravia, IA | donetracey - 2010-12-24 9:40 PM
You Darksiders are a riot! Lots of fun! Hell - some of you probably believe most of your braking comes from the rear. Slays me! Keep it up ... !!!
I assure you alot of the time most of my braking does come from the rear.....especially when your towing a camping trailer in a downpour.....hit the front brakes and that tire locks VERY easily. Murphys Law dictates that when I want to go camping....it rains.
donetracey - 2010-12-24 9:42 PM
OH~ I forgot. I have driven a Boss Hawg - 400HP Vette engine. How many of you had done that? And tell me how much fun it was to make it TURN????
Never have....but Ive ridden a GL1800 and the Vision with car tires....turns just fine. Perhaps your letting your car tire experience with that huge toad cloud your judgment. I can assure you the Vision handles much better. The car tire on that Boss Hoss goes to the extreme......thats a huge car tire.
If anyone has ever rode a custom chopper with a wide motorcycle tire......its actually WORSE then the car tire on the Vision....by far.
Merry Christmas to you to.  |
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Fargo, ND | Even Harley is getting in on the idea...better get one while the getting is good (car tire that is)! 
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| Always ran 34 psi in the DS tires.
A couple things I've learned or rather noticed over the many years I've been tossing a leg over the saddle.
First is folks will defend and make up just about anything to justify their choices. Second they'll go to extreme measures to insult anyone who might disagree with their choice.
So my thoughts are the following on Darkside use; Run it if you want to, but seat of the pants isn't science and you might just want to refer to the experts when it comes to matters of science. So with that said the Darksiders are correct the DS tire does feel more planted, is less likely to break loose on dry pavement under excel, and will handle pretty much the same in MOST respects to a MC tire provided you haven't gone too extreme on width. However as stated earlier this is a seat of the pants observation and not AT ALL scientific. In fact the DS tire gets worse grip due to stiffer rubber compounds & sidewalls, hydroplanes under ALL wet conditions, and has a much lighter foot print due entirely to the width of the contact patch. The aforementioned are not opinion they are science. They aren't rated for the bikes weight, or traction requirements, and the flat & wide nature of the tire create a surface which coupled with the low weight of a motorcycle, even a heavy like the Vision, make for the perfect skate.
Now this is not to dampen anyones spirits with regard to running a DS tire, hell the early bikes all ran car tires. However technology has moved far beyond those early days of motorcycling to an era when the best possible materials and science have produced tires specific to the activity. That means ride your bike with the DS tire if you choose to, and enjoy the benefits of them, but always be aware of the shortcomings associated as well. Quite frankly I see the arguments both for and against, thats why I've run DS and run MC specific through my 40+ riding years. Riding isn't a one size fits all, so to toss insults serves no one.
I guess I'm saying if you feel the need to JUSTIFY, you have some doubts. So always consider the assertion and the question, there is likely some fact in both. Know where that truth lies which in turn should make you a safer and better informed rider. |
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Corona, CA | "hydroplanes under ALL wet conditions"
You seriously think this tire
hydroplanes less than this tire ???? �  �
� I count twice as many groves in the CT. They are DESIGNED to channel water from under the tire. unlike an MC tire. Just look at the pure physics of� the design. " 1) In fact the DS tire gets worse grip due to stiffer rubber compounds & sidewalls, 2) hydroplanes under ALL wet conditions, and has a much lighter foot print due entirely to the width of the contact patch. The aforementioned are not opinion they are science. 3)They aren't rated for the bikes weight, or traction requirements, and 4)the flat & wide nature of the tire create a surface which coupled with the low weight of a motorcycle, even a heavy like the Vision, make for the perfect skate." " The aforementioned are not opinion they are science" This is your opinion not fact.
1) I have run Kumho's on my Porsche and Vette that will stick FAR better than any MC tire. 2) lighter footprint. You are confusing tire loading with traction. The fact is the more rubber on the road the better the traction PERIOD. How light is a top fuel funny car and how wide are their tires ?? If your "fact" was correct they would be running front runner tires on the rear ! 3) Tire don't care where they are installed. their rating is for weight & traction PERIOD.
4) A "skate" can only happen when you have a solid surface riding on top of the water. The grooves in the tires are designed to channel water from the contact area under the tire and expel it to the sides of the tire thereby increasing traction AND stopping power.
Edited by team5150 2010-12-25 9:03 PM
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Visionary
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New Bohemia, Va | Having rode in some nasty downpours for many miles on a MC tire, I've never felt it hydroplane, and that is running 70+ mph on rolling interstates. Again, that is on the E3s. In the same conditions I have felt my cage hydroplane more than I want to admit.
I don't doubt the claims of stopping and stability of the type of tires folks are running on their bikes, but the only benefit that I'm convinced of is the longevity and the cost comparison. I personally don't like the "difference" spoken of as I love the way my Vision rolls with the stock tires. |
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Visionary
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Rancho Cucamonga, CA | For those that don't haul trailers behind their bikes, yes, most of your braking comes from the rear tire when towing. I could stand on my brake pedal when towing and not get the rear to skid. Touch the front brake and you would go sliding off the side of the road. Been there, done that. Something they don't teach in an advanced riders course.
As far as hydroplaning, the wider the tire, the more it's going to hydroplane given the same load. This has nothing to do with traction or surface contact area. It has everthing to do with leading edge displacement. All tires will have relatively the same surface contact area given they run at the same PSI and the same load. The differnce is the shape of the contact patch. A narrow long patch has less water it must displace because the leading edge removes it and the rest of the patch follows clear from water. A wide, short patch has more water it must displace and a higher tendancy to plane. Think of a bicycle tire. Very narrow, terrible traction but almost impossible to hydroplane.
Conversley, if you put your bike into a skid, a wider tire will do better at slowing because more tire will come into contact with a surface not already covered by melted rubber. |
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Tampa, Fl United States | Cap'n Nemo - 2010-12-25 10:51 PM
Having rode in some nasty downpours for many miles on a MC tire, I've never felt it hydroplane, and that is running 70+ mph on rolling interstates. Again, that is on the E3s. In the same conditions I have felt my cage hydroplane more than I want to admit.
I don't doubt the claims of stopping and stability of the type of tires folks are running on their bikes, but the only benefit that I'm convinced of is the longevity and the cost comparison. I personally don't like the "difference" spoken of as I love the way my Vision rolls with the stock tires.
Still, you go on disputing or argueing about CT w/ no experience. When MY orginal post was asking about "What Tire Pressure are the Darksiders running, Period!!!
If you really want to add any substance to my posting, come to the Darkside, then share your experience(like tire pressure which was the orginal basis of this post!!)
Your inexperience lacks any input on this topic
By no means is this supose to get into a pissing contest,lets just stick to my orginal(initial) TOPIC
TIRE PRESSUREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! |
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Moravia, IA | Cap'n Nemo - 2010-12-25 9:51 PM
I don't doubt the claims of stopping and stability of the type of tires folks are running on their bikes, but the only benefit that I'm convinced of is the longevity and the cost comparison. I personally don't like the "difference" spoken of as I love the way my Vision rolls with the stock tires.
To put this "difference" into perspective.....follow along.
Every time you put new tires on your bike there is a difference. Weather its a fresh pair of E3s.....or perhaps a different pair of motorcycle specific tires - your bike is going to handle "different" then it did before.
Its impossible for it not to.....how different depends. If you ride on your E3s till they get close to the wear bars and your experience was like mine your already riding on some fairly "out of round" tires before you change. The 2 pairs of E3s I had on my bike got very square in the middle fairly quickly....Id say within the 4K to 5K miles.
Go to a pair of NEW E3s and it handles like a dream again.....but it didnt last long.
Switched from the "out of round" worn E3s to the car tire and handling improves. Comparing a NEW E3 to a car tire - there is a "difference".....but not significant and no different then any other tire change exhibits.
The difference isnt drastic.....in fact Ive had people ride my bike and they didnt even know there was a car tire under there till I told them.
So in order for me to keep that "light, new" motorcycle tire feeling Id change tires every 4K.....thats not going to work.
The car tire doesnt wear like the MC tire.....so its stays fairly static in handling characteristics. It basically handles like a slightly worn or used E3 (my personal comparison....perhaps your riding style doesnt wear tires like mine).
Ive got 30K miles on my Vision since this April.......perhaps you dont ride as much, dont pull a trailer......dont ride thousands of miles in a weeks time. Perhaps the E3 works for you.
It doesnt for me.
If you absolutely MUST have that superb handling a brand new MC tire exhibits.....you wont like the car tire.
However if you can live with the handling a worn MC tire exhibits and would like to only change tires every 25K to 30K.....well then perhaps a car tire would work for you.
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All Dark Siders (car tire) please step inside
