The Alpine SPS-500 speakers are a drop-in replacement, reusing the OEM hex bolts and fitting within the OEM rubber speaker surrounds.

However, installation of ANY speaker requires one to remove the dash bezel, rear view mirror, and speaker grill plate (see pic below) - in order to gain access to the speaker itself.

speaker.JPG (6KB - 17 downloads)

There is nothing needed for waterproofing; as I stated earlier, they are made with silicone and polypropoline cones - thus, they can be considered mostly "marine grade" (their grills don't have the UV resistance, nor are their bodies surrounded by plastic covers to protect from harsh chemicals/salt spray). 

 Also, being coaxial, they already have a directional 3/4" tweeter sitting over the woofer - so there is no need to have to separately add a set of tweeters.

5.25" 2-way speakers (pair)
Polypropylene-mica woofer cone
Air-injected rubber surround
3/4" pivoting silk dome tweeter
Power range: 2-55 watts RMS (170 watts peak power)
Frequency response: 80-22,000 Hz
Sensitivity: 87 dB
Top-mount depth: 2"

I'm in no way affiliated with Alpine - just a happy customer. 

speaker-face.jpg (18KB - 14 downloads)

BigWill5150,

I think you may have your numbers backwards.  The lower the impendence of the speaker, the more current it pulls through the amp, thus causing it to get hotter and possibly burning it out.  Being such, a 4Ohm speaker draws less current than a 2Ohm speaker does at the same volume setting (not measured SPL).  If an amp can handle a 2Ohm load, it can handle a 4Ohm or 8Ohm load.

If you notice, most amps are rated at 8Ohms, fewer have ratings for (8 and 4), fewer still for (8, 4 and 2) and very few are stable down to a 1Ohm load (or less).  Also, the beefier the amp (without marketing hype), will state doubling of power with each halfing of the impendence (e.g. 350wpc/8Ohms, 700wpc/4Ohms, 1,400wpc/2Ohms - e.g. Mark Levinson #336), but most amps are not built this well and will not double its output with each respective halving.

Also, I believe the stock Victory Vision speakers are in the neighborhood of 4Ohms, not 2 Ohms.  When I measured mine before upgrading the stereo, they were measuring @ 3.5Ohms.

Tim

BigWill5150,

Please note that I mentioned "at the same volume setting".? I was not advocating running an amp at 75-100%.? I agree that running any amp at 75-100% all of the time (or even part of the time) will damage it (and the speakers) quicker (as well as driving it into clipping).? Quicker still if you use a lower resistence speaker because you will be making it work more than 100% of its original intended output.? I never run my amps more than 50%, if I do, I believe I need a larger amp.?

One thing that was not mentioned so far is the efficiency of a speaker which also enters into this equation.? I used to have 8-Ohm Klipsch speakers that were 104dB efficient and could probably be?driven from a sony walkman due to their efficiency, but you could not fit the speakers on a motorcycle?unless you had?side car and trailer.

I have not found any specs on the RadioSound Vision radio other than 20wpc so I can not absolutely state that the radio is stable at 2, 4, 8 or other Ohm rating other than measuring the OEM speakers that came off of it and assume they did the appropriate pairing.

I guess I will have to get my $500 Fluke 189 recalibrated since our OEM speaker measurements differ.

Tim

?

farlz - 2010-01-26 4:41 PM ... Is there an amp that I can get that will change the outgoing 2 ohms from the reciever to 4 ohms (with increased wattage)? Will this eliminate the suspected issue of causing damage the reciever??

If you are not driving your 4Ohm speakers any higher (volume setting, NOT Sound Pressure Level (SPL)) than your stock speakers, you should be fine.  I tried various automotive speakers on my Vision and found them to require a higher volume setting than stock and then returned them because of it.  The J&M replacement speakers give you more SPL at the same volume setting so you should not be driving your amp harder (assuming they are the same resistence as the OEM speakers).

What is the highest Volume Setting that your run at on your Vision?

What were you running before and after the speaker swap-out?

When you put an amp between the radio and the speakers, the radio no longer sees the speakers as a load.  It sees the amp (and interface to the amp) as the load.  The Vision's radio does not have pre-amp outputs, thus you have to use the high-powered speaker outputs of the radio and use a step-down transformer to provide line-level inputs into the amp.  If the amp accepts high powered inputs, then it already has the step-down transformers included in the amp.  If your amp was stable enough, you could put a 16Ohm or a 0.1 Ohm speaker on the amp and the radio would never know the difference (but the amp and charging system would).

HTH,

Tim

Prostreet1 - 2010-01-27 4:10 PM Ok...now that you guys have totally lost me....Tim..bigwill....getting back to the start of this thread....do you feel this is a good upgrade with the Alpine SPS 500's??....I appreciate the both of you two increasing my understanding of this topic.... :0) Coop

This speaker would not be my first choice for the Vision.  It's sensitivity rating is 87dB which is not very efficient.  Speakers are normally rated by measuring at a distance of 1 meter, on-axis using 1 watt of power.  This means this speaker will produce an SPL of 87dB when fed 1 watt measured at 1 meter.  [Off topic:  Some motorcycle horns are measured at a few inches, which make their "published efficiency rating" artificially higher than it would be measured at  the nominal 1 meter.  They are violating the normal measuring techniques to produce inflated marketing claims].

Since this speaker is not very efficient, you will need more power to get it to output the same SPL as the stock or J&M speaker.  This gets back to what BigWill5150 was stating.  You will end up turning up the amp higher to get the same SPL and wearing it out quicker.  It also goes back to what I stated earlier about trying various automotive speakers in the Vision at the same volume setting to see if it played louder (SPL) or not.  This is not a problem if you have a stable amp with lots of watts, but the Vision's radio only has 20 watts.

I am not so worried about the 4Ohms (especially since I do not have the radio manufacturer's published specs on the radio) as I am the efficiency rating.

The next part is going to involve a little math.  The main point to take away is that power/efficiency/hearing is an exponential relationship, not a linear one, thus you can run out of headroom really quickly if you are trying to drive inefficient speakers with a small amp.  When you run out of gas, you turn up the amp to compensate and in turn, burn it out.

To raise the volume by 3dB, you need to DOUBLE the power going into the speaker. Each 3dB gain then adds another power of 2.

Examples: 

A 90dB efficient speaker will play the same SPL with 1/2 the power of an 87dB efficient speaker (3dB or (1/(2^1))). 

A 93dB efficient speaker will play the same SPL with 1/4 the power of an 87dB efficient speaker (6dB or (1/(2^2))).

A 96dB efficient speaker will play the same SPL with 1/8 the power of an 87dB efficient speaker (9dB or (1/(2^3))).

As a rough general rule, human hearing needs @ a 10dB boost to be perceived as being twice as loud (SPL, not twice the power).  To raise the perception by a factor of 2, you need about 10X as much power (not 2X the power).  From the example above, you see (96dB - 87dB) = 9dB which equates to 8X the power or (2^3).

Vision Example:

Assuming the power meter on the Vision's radio is linear [1-30], you will need to have the volume level set to 24 on an 87dB efficient speaker to get the same volume level of a 96dB efficient speaker set to 3.  The 87dB efficient speaker would need a setting of 32 to match the SPL of the 96dB speaker at a setting of 4 [ 5:50, 6:48, 7:56, 8:64, 9:72, 10:80, ... ].  You are now out of luck with the 87db speaker because the Vision volume control only goes to 30 while the 96dB speaker is only using 2/15th of the amps capacity with plenty of headroom left.  Based on this example, which scenario is more desirable ???

With a less efficient speaker, you will be driving the amp harder to generate the same SPL (while also decreasing headroom) which will shorten the life of the amp over that of using a more efficient speaker.

I hope this helps explain why I would not use this speaker with the Vision's amp.  Go with the J&M replacement speakers which are more efficient requiring less power.

Sincerley,

Tim

Lotzafun - 2010-01-28 6:09 AM Tim, Bigwill....and others- I'd like your opinions Assuming all costs and installation and listening levels and music tastes and such are all equal... Are the J&M speakers the BEST alternative for the Vision? And for those who wish to take it to the next level...what would be the BEST amp to install? And what would be the BEST speakers to install with this amp? Still assuming costs and installation and such as being equal.

The J&M's are the best replacements that I am aware of to date.  Other speakers may sound a little wamer, but you will run into issues outlined in my previous post if they are less efficient.

As for amps, the Vision's charging system needs to be larger than what it currently is.  They should have released the 65amp stator that they advertised in their 2008 and 2009 accessory catelog. Victory would sell a bunch of them to the stereo guys. 

Since the Vision's charging system is marginal with all of the available accesories, you will need a very efficient amp which points you at digital amps (Class T, Class D, etc., not a Class A or Class A/B).  They are generally 80-90% efficient versus 10-20% efficient which is easier on the charging system.  Even with the more efficient amps, you can still overrun the Vision's charging system, so BEWARE, I speak from personal experience with my 2008 Vision. 

Size on the Vision is also a consideration for both speakers and amp placement.  The HD batwing fairings have plenty of room to locate an amp and even larger (diameter & deeper) 6.5" speakers.  Unfortunately, the Vision's fairing will not accomodate 6.5" speakers and the front enclosures limit depth, which vastly limits your speaker choices.  The Vision's fairing also does not have room for an amp.

With the previous restrictions on the Vision, you have to be very selective about what you choose and where you install it.  There will be trade offs.  Do I take up storage space?  Do I run the amp without heated accessories and visa versa, etc.

To date, I can not give a firm recommendation for an amp system that is trade-off free on the Vision until they come out with a stronger stator.  It would also be great if their next fairing design would accomodate 6.5" speakers and add pre-amp outs on the radio.

HTH,

Tim