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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | Ummm... Don. there's more contact patch with a CT -vs- a MC tire. Less likely for it to skid out in a braking event. Real riders know how to use the rear brake in conjunction with the front brake; to assist overall braking. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | donetracey - 2013-04-28 11:28 PM
Never saw a bike in 53 years in a showroom with CTs.
You don't get out much, do you? There are a few bike that have come with car tires, STOCK. The biggest name that comes to mind is Boss Hoss but there are others. Do your homework before you post.
I'll run a CT on my next tire change. If you don't want to, don't. No need to make fun of those of us who make that choice. We don't make fun of your love of pretty tulips, do we?
Edited by Monkeyman 2013-04-29 6:11 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | There is not doubt specialty bikes like Boss Hoss come with some sort of car tire. Personally, I've never knew of or seen a standard touring bike, cruiser or sports bike come with a car tire. There is no empirical data that I've ever seen that supports car tires are better on a motorcycle than a motorcycle tire. With the amount of miles I put on yearly I felt I was a candidate for a CT so I read as much as I could about it. There was one thing I was not willing to give up, how the bike feels and handles. That was the game changer for me because not even the "experts" said it handled better. They have all said it is different, and you will "get used to it". This tells me it takes away the one thing that I don't want to give up. The more I studied this the more it became evident why one wants to use a car tire, utility. Longer life and less costly. Every other argument I've heard also does not sell over me either. On my E3s I've never had problems stopping or riding in the rain. I just broke my promise about never saying anything about a car tire, but I stand with Don and respect his passion for the ride. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| willtill - 2013-04-29 5:11 AM
Ummm... Don. there's more contact patch with a CT -vs- a MC tire. Less likely for it to skid out in a braking event. Real riders know how to use the rear brake in conjunction with the front brake; to assist overall braking.
A larger contact patch does not equate to better grip by itself. 500 lbs of weight sitting on the tire is the same coefficient of friction whether it's distributed across 2 square inches or 5 square inches. Basic physics says that 500lbs across 2 square inches equals 250lbs per square inch of force - vs- 500lbs across 5 sq inches equals 100lbs per square inch of force, both provide the same coef of friction, all else being equal.
Siping and and rubber compound make a much more profound difference, and there, typically the MC tire prevails with softer rubber and siping that is more suitable to displacing water when leaned over. Not to mention, that a wider tire with more contact patch is more likely to hydroplane than a skinner tire with less contact patch, which will more easily plow through standing water.
This is the real physics of it. I understand that a lot of CT riders feel that their arrangement defies the laws of physics, and works great. Not to mention the longer tire life (harder rubber, less grip).
Ride what you are comfortable with.... and enjoy....
Edited by Turk 2013-04-29 7:24 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I wish I was as smart as some people. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | I had been using a Dunlop Winter Sport run flat on my Vision.
During that time I had a chance to ride on every type of road and weather condition.
Included interstate, two lane mountain roads, gravel/mud and 100's and 100's and 100's of miles of riding in the rain.
Based on my experience with that tire I put another Dunlop Winter Sport on my Vision.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | Good enough for me. Let's see a show of hands. Who else has ridden from Key West, FL to Prudoe Bay, AK...in 10 days...on a car tire? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 228
| donetracey - 2013-04-28 10:28 PM Boots - 2013-04-28 7:35 PM IMHO - Shorter stopping distances Smoother ride Better rain management Less down time Fewer times disassembed = Less chance for mistakes 1/3 the price for 3 times the mileage Ha Ha Ha Ha - damn, you 'geniuses' are funny ! Thanks for the laugh .... ROFLOL You forgot to mention the better fuel mileage with CTs .... LOL - KILLS me .... But I'll stick to real tires - especially in my mountainous riding. Never saw a bike in 53 years in a showroom with CTs. Wonder why ???? Maybe guys with CTs don't know HOW to ride ???? So many questions - sigh ... Like 'BRAKING' - how does a CT make for better braking when 70+ % of that is done with FRONT tire ???? ... at least by people who know HOW to ride. I think it's all about being CHEAP. Or maybe just providing amusement! Yeah - that's it !!! +1 Don!! If the darkside is so much better....why don't the OEM's install them at the factory? I know....it's a conspiracy with the MC tire manufacturers so everyone can pay more for their scooters when they are new!My question is...why don't any of the motorcycle race teams use CTs on their roadrace or flattrack bikes if they are SO superior in every way? Just sayin'! |
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Iron Butt
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, WI | Monkeyman - 2013-04-29 8:36 AM Good enough for me. Let's see a show of hands. Who else has ridden from Key West, FL to Prudoe Bay, AK...in 10 days...on a car tire? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? 7 days, 10 hours and 10 minutes.  |
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Cruiser
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| Turk: you didn't finish your physics problem, what will actually stop you better, 5 sq" @ 100 ppsi or 2 sq" @ 250 ppsi? (if you divide 500/5 you have to devide 500/2 !) I would like to see that run on some kinda real live test. My better braking CT say's 5 sq" @ 100 ppsi. But all bets are off when a run flat inter the picture. Run you MT flat and see what it's like, then run the Ru Flat CT and see what its like? Thats safety. Hope its get the troops stewed up! |
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Iron Butt
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Peru, IN | savage - 2013-04-29 9:43 AM
My question is...why don't any of the motorcycle race teams use CTs on their roadrace or flattrack bikes if they are SO superior in every way?
They AREN'T meant for knee dragging corners. Street motorcycle tires aren't meant for the track, either. Of course, most motorcycles aren't changing their tires twice a day with $400 tires so I guess that's something. Everyone has to make compromises. If I had a fully stocked chase vehicle (and an endless supply of money), I'd put race tires on my bike....and change them every couple of days. (By my crew. While I was sleeping.) |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| Rollin' - 2013-04-29 8:30 AM
I had been using a Dunlop Winter Sport run flat on my Vision.
During that time I had a chance to ride on every type of road and weather condition.
Included interstate, two lane mountain roads, gravel/mud and 100's and 100's and 100's of miles of riding in the rain.
Based on my experience with that tire I put another Dunlop Winter Sport on my Vision.
And if I rode the distances and destinations you rode to, you bet your ass I'd have a long life run flat tire on my bike, such as the Wintersport! I'm not detracting from their usefulness. There is definitely a reason for everything. I was merely mentioning the raw physics of it.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | Rollin' - 2013-04-29 9:44 AM
Monkeyman - 2013-04-29 8:36 AM Good enough for me. Let's see a show of hands. Who else has ridden from Key West, FL to Prudoe Bay, AK...in 10 days...on a car tire? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? 7 days, 10 hours and 10 minutes.
I stand corrected. :D |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| wingit3611 - 2013-04-29 9:06 AM
Turk: you didn't finish your physics problem, what will actually stop you better, 5 sq" @ 100 ppsi or 2 sq" @ 250 ppsi? (if you divide 500/5 you have to devide 500/2 !) I would like to see that run on some kinda real live test. My better braking CT say's 5 sq" @ 100 ppsi. But all bets are off when a run flat inter the picture. Run you MT flat and see what it's like, then run the Ru Flat CT and see what its like? Thats safety. Hope its get the troops stewed up!
Again, all things being equal, the same total weight, on the same exact compounds and surfaces, there would be no difference in braking distance! C'mon, we all learned this in high school physics. Only back then, the analogy was used to persuade the hot rodders that their huge rear tires were actually performing below what the standard tires were (more unsprung weight robs power). That what mattered was the compound and coefficient of friction. Wider tires do not by virtue of being wider, offer a higher coefficient of friction. Go ask any physics professor.
But, anecdotal experiences seem to offer profoundly different feedback to some.... it's certainly a scientific conundrum.
Edited by Turk 2013-04-29 9:18 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 599
New Mexico | varyder - 2013-04-29 5:50 AM
There was one thing I was not willing to give up, how the bike feels and handles. That was the game changer for me because not even the "experts" said it handled better. They have all said it is different, and you will "get used to it". This tells me it takes away the one thing that I don't want to give up.
In my experience with the Potenza this is true. As with all things, there is give and take, plus and minus, ying and yang, Donny and Marie...
A buddy here on the forum (Nailer) went with me as I was getting my second Potenza installed. He was putting on his first ct, chose a different brand, and had me test ride it. My Potenza has a break-in period where, for lack of better phrasing, it 'learns' to be a mt. His, however, handled great right from the start. Very smooth, too. Not sure about the other benefits (longevity, stopping distance, weather management, etc), but will check with him on that before I get my next ct.
Of course, with only 12k on this tire, I will have to wait another 30k or so before I find out  |
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Cruiser
Posts: 244
| Turk: I forgot to mention that on another form (believe it was the Burgmanusa) a tire manufacture guy said that CT tires are made from softer rubber that MT. He quoted some Engineering spects to support his statement. Who knows? I just know I like my car and the way it stops, way it corners & the way it stays up when flat. Foget the rest of the details. By the way, I haven't had the gut's to see if I could do a burnout with it yet. MT would! |
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New user
Posts: 3
| Where are you guys getting your CT mounted? Or are most people doing it themselves? |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | OK - Y'all have convinced me!
CT's are best!
So I am selling my bike and will let my wife do all the driving in her SMART. Anyone want a nice '08 for $32,000 ????
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | NO TAKERS ???
Well, proves my point. Darksiders are just Cheap Bastages who figure saving a buck beats being right. I'll stick to what the engineers, racers, manufacturers - and MY OWN knowledge tells me - for MANY years. Use MOTORCYCLE TIRES ON A MOTORCYCLE.
There - it's UGLY to you guys. But goddamned common sense to those of us who aren't common ...
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | LOL Don, you didn't even wait an hour for a reply!!!............the vodka, runneth over.................. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 142
elgin mn | If it quits raining I will go out and ride my Vision. with my winter sport, quit arguing guys. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| Why in the world do all u guys give such a shit?? Just ride ur own ride. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | armymedic - 2013-05-30 12:23 AM
Where are you guys getting your CT mounted? Or are most people doing it themselves?
Most independent shops and some dealers will mount a CT for you. I've seen prices ranging for $40 all the way up to $125 if you bring the wheel/tire in. Some shops require they state on the bill that they're not responsible if something happens (like the tire blows up or the world ends...neither of which has happened). |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | jeffmack - 2013-05-30 8:33 AM
Why in the world do all u guys give such a shit?? Just ride ur own ride.
It's because of this:
The above is a caricature of Don posting late last night/early this morning....  |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | What's better than a car tire?? A car tire filled with nitrogen!!!!!!!!!!!! 
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The Darkside Anthem
