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Central Wisconsin |
| Specification | Sidewall | Radius | Diameter | Circumference | Revolutions | Speedometer | Odometer | Difference |
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| 175/60-16 | 4.1" | 12.1" | 24.3" | 76.2" | 831/mi | 60MPH | 10000mi | N/A | | 180/60-16 | 4.3" | 12.3" | 24.5" | 77.0" | 823/mi | 59MPH | 9904mi | 1.0% | | 195/55-16 | 4.2" | 12.2" | 24.4" | 76.8" | 825/mi | 60MPH | 9928mi | 0.7% |
Turk... As I said, the factory E3's are 2mph off of TRUE speed, as registered on the GPS. Going to a smaller circumference tire is going to increase the discrepancy from TRUE speed. The 175/60 and 185/55 are smaller circumference tires. The fact that the stock E3's are 2mph off is bad enough, but increasing that further to 3 or 4mph is not what I *personally* am comfortable doing. I'm trying to figure where you believe my statement is inaccurate ? BTW, your chart is wrong..... the percentages are incorrect. Both the 175/60 and 195/55 make more revolutions per mile than the stock 180/60. So the E3 should show 0%, while the others should show varying degrees of inaccuracy compared to that. Thanks for pointing that out, I listed the Factory E3 MT first on the chart below. Here have some fun with it. Tire Calculator . Furthermore *my experience* the diameter on the MT tends to shorten faster then the CT, thus my odometer on bike is almost exact with the GPS.
| Specification | Sidewall | Radius | Diameter | Circumference | Revolutions | Speedometer | Odometer | Difference |
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| 180/60-16 | 4.3" | 12.3" | 24.5" | 77.0" | 823/mi | 60MPH | 10000mi | N/A | | 175/60-16 | 4.1" | 12.1" | 24.3" | 76.2" | 831/mi | 61MPH | 10097mi | -1.0% | | 195/55-16 | 4.2" | 12.2" | 24.4" | 76.8" | 825/mi | 60MPH | 10024mi | -0.2% |
Edited by Thomas 2012-04-17 4:15 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | is there any chance your gps could be off. im not defending the E3's (hell no!) i just dont always have 100% faith in a gps. i have had 2 gps units in my car one time at the same time. and not only did they pick different routes, but they also couldnt agree i was doing the same speed. (1-2mph off) not a big deal.. but either way one of them or maybe even both of them were wrong.. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | All the car tires are slightly shorter than a stock E3. The 195/55 is closest, than the 175/60 and the shortest is the 185/55. With a E3, my GPS would read 50 and my speedometer would say 51. With the 175/60 it now says 52. My speedo was off by 2%, now it's off by 4%.
No matter the tire, there is about a 5-6mm diference between a new tire and a worn one. That will make about a 2% difference in speedo readings as well. A CT will spread that variance over 25-30k and a MT over 10-15k.
Edited by Nozzledog 2012-04-17 5:21 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | on a side note... i have been worried about going to a CT with my 11 vision because of the ABS system. i did the dark side on my 08 vision (195/55-16) but with abs there is a warning in the service manual for the 2011 vision where it warns about the effectiveness of the ABS system if you change the size of the tires. well today i talked to a CT dealer and told this person behind the counter i wanted to go with a 175/60-16 NOT 185/55-16 even thought the 175 is a special order.. the lady asked why and i told her ABS.. she instantly knew why... but she said as far as car goes the rule of thumb is to NOT exceed 3% of a difference between tire sizes for the ABS.. not sure if that rule applies to our visions or not.. i guess it really doesnt matter since none of the tires are that much of a difference in the first place.. I just wanted to share this info..
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| Nozzledog - 2012-04-17 5:14 PM
All the car tires are slightly shorter than a stock E3. The 195/55 is closest, than the 175/60 and the shortest is the 185/55. With a E3, my GPS would read 50 and my speedometer would say 51. With the 175/60 it now says 52. My speedo was off by 2%, now it's off by 4%.
No matter the tire, there is about a 5-6mm diference between a new tire and a worn one. That will make about a 2% difference in speedo readings as well. A CT will spread that variance over 25-30k and a MT over 10-15k.
Exactly!  |
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Cruiser
Posts: 51
Okotoks, Alberta | OK I am convinced to give the DS a try. Two questions I have are:
1) Is there any noticeable noise difference in running CT vs MT?
2) No problems mounting a 195 on the 5" rim?
Thanks |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| CT is more quiet and no issue with a 195 on a 5". I have tried a Potenza and a Hankook Ventues v4. I will be sticking with the Ventus. It won't last quite as long as a Potenza, but I feel the ride and performance have been much better on the Hankook. Hankook has a beed lock, Higher speed rating, higher weight rating, higher PSI allowed, and has a more rounded edge to the tire. Good luck |
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Cruiser
Posts: 56
| So.....basically if I want to do this, I need to stick with a 195/55 16 to be as close to stock as possible? And only be off by a 1mph or 2?
Another question....It seems that when coming to a stop on uneven pavement that the tire would alway be looking to level out. Im very short, 5,7 160 pounds and the bike is very easy to stop and I feel completely comforatable on it....even 2 up. Does a CT convert to more effort holding the bike up when stopped on unlevel surfaces going slow? I have found 2 dealers that will do this!
Can I also ask for some pics from some of you that has a 195/55 from the back?
Thanks so much for all of the info over tha past few days....I'm "almost" converted on this idea.
Edited by kpVision 2012-04-18 12:29 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 258
Akron, Ohio | I don't have any pics right now, but I have notices no differemce as far as wiggle or wobbles coming to a stop. It made a huge difference when I greased and my steering stem bearing. Much better when I got done.
Edited by handyhiker 2012-04-18 4:37 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v67/aaronrkelly/Vehicles/Picture0... |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| kpVision
you'll find a car tire is not that of big deal. After a thousand miles you'll be riding like being on a bike tire. The only thing I really notice if there is a cron in the road I do get push or moved to one side or the other. Once you under stand that its a thing of the past.
Stoping is very easy and on windy days you balance better I think.
If your that short I would and wish I would have put the 175/60-16 tire on. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | The difference between the 195/55 and 175/60 radius is 2mm. An average CT tire will lose 7mm from new till the time it needs to be replaced (a MT-6mm), so 2mm is negligible. So when a Dunlop E3 has 5-6k miles on it, it will be the same diameter as a new Wintersport. When an E3 needs to be replaced, it will be the same diameter as a Wintersport with 10k on it.
On a side note, wider tires last longer. So if you are looking for the most miles, go with the wider tire. That is the only advantage a wider tire has. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 15
Welch Minnesota | donetracey - 2010-12-22 1:36 PM
sonicbluerider - 2010-12-22 11:26 AM Good god man all he asked about was psi not for some anti darkside tirade I like the "TIREADE" better! Why not add a 3rd wheel for those days when motorcycling is not your thing. Or better yet - a FOURTH!!! Then you would have a nice dune-buggy. I have said this before (as have car tire manufacturers) - if car tires worked better on a bike - then new bikes would come with them. Believe what you want - you know, "toothfairy", "Santa", "RED is the fastest color" - all that stuff.
Nothing would be farther from the truth then that.
Now days the manufacturing companies learn alot from the consumer.
I am in the snowmobile industry and the Mountain riders and performance shops accross the country have show the factories almost every good idea you see produced by the OEMs was copied from things we the public designed.
I am an absolute tire freak on my Trucks & cars, I live in the Midwest and we live in the sticks and alots of times we don't wait for the plows, And safety for my Wife & kids is top priority. we run winter only tires with tons of siping and super softy compound tires.
When I first heard about CT's on bikes I figured for sure it was because people were cheap and they were trying to save money only. Then I bought a Vision last fall and I drove it in some poor wether and on gravel roads.
I did not like the performance of the E3 at all in the following conditions ( Wet, slippery conditions, cold to below freezing temps, and gravel road riding ) I started looking for a softer siped tire with deeper tread. I found nothing I liked and the motorcycle tire shops I called all thought I was nuts and said the E3 was a good tire. Its a peice of sh!t !! PERIOD !! As soon I got done reading CT threads all over the place and I saw a picture of a Dunlop winter sport on a Vision I ordered one that same day it will be here 4/25/12 and I can't wait.
I wish tere was a CT tire that fit my front rim, After I get the rear tire on and try it I already know I am going to like it.............There is nothing like driving with good soft tires with lots of siping. ( A Vision isn't a sport bike to me ) Its all about safety I ordered my tire monitor also.
If you ask me the Motorcycle tires have along way to go when it comes to cold roads, wet roads and gravel road performance not to mention if you get caught in wet conditions and the temp drops to 32 degrees the winter spot will make you feel like you are riding with an Angel in your pocket.
I might even have a custom front wheel built so I can run a runflat winter tire up front also just so I can test it, If I don't like it I will change it.
The human brain is designed to always find a better way.
My 2 cents. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Application - it's all about the application, sounds like you have something that works for you, but not for the masses... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 204
guelph ontario | I tried a really wide drag racing slick on the back. Great contact patch but only advantage was that the side stand could be eliminated. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 741
Central New York | Almost makes you wonder why tire manufacturers go through all that expense to design a tire and have the molds built, if they are all interchangeable. Wasteful, I guess. I think the final answer would be; what are they using on the race circuit? I would think that if a good ole "Potenza" is good enough for the oval track, it should be good enough for everyone. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Not that it would be a major issue to a darksider, but I wonder if there is any data on the wear of other components related to the use of a car tire. Things like brakes, bearings, belt, bushings, clutch, and the rear shock. Perhaps the affect and effect on the other components using a car tire is minute, but it has to change the dynamics some. Anyone have any thoughts? |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 15
Welch Minnesota | varyder - 2012-04-23 9:41 AM
Not that it would be a major issue to a darksider, but I wonder if there is any data on the wear of other components related to the use of a car tire. Things like brakes, bearings, belt, bushings, clutch, and the rear shock. Perhaps the affect and effect on the other components using a car tire is minute, but it has to change the dynamics some. Anyone have any thoughts?
Good points everyone, and yes I have a few thoughts.
As far as Victory testing goes I would guess its damn little on tires, I would guess its here the bike specs to all tire builders and then the lowest bidder gets the sale. Polaris stocks are not high because they buy high and sell low. Its quite the opposite I would guess.
As for professional riders testing tries on sport bikes means nothing to me.
And as far as wear goes on the Bike I do not care either I will watch wear parts like a hawk.
My main concern is when I am caught off guard by sand, water, due, or even ice or a truck spilled something.
After driving something for along time you learn the limits of what the tires and the bike can take in perfect conditions. ( Its the conditions that surprise me that I want the biggest safety net I can get I have kids and a family that need me ) A soft compond highly siped tire is the best chance you have bar none.
And Have search for a MT that fits this need and I can't find it. The wintersort Dunlop gives me exactly what I want as far as what I have been able to find available.
I build custom crankshafts for Polaris snowmobile motors and mine are better in every way then the factory but they cost double the price.
Do not ever believe that the factory uses the best of anything.
When building an air plane do you honestly believe that all the builders ahve not put a price on the cost of a human life ??
They have NOT put a cost on a human life ( The public has ) If there was 2 planes going to everywhere in the world.
#1 - couldn't crash no matter what because of unlimited sately features ( Airfare $3500.00 per ticket coach )
#2 - normal plane they build today ( Airfare $350.00 )
Which plane do you think is the fullest ??
Bottom-line is study like a madman and do what works for you and nobody else.
A CT an't for everyone and I am not sure they are for me but I will test it and I will hands down know which one is best for what I want.
Think how many people have died testing things & pushing them to the limit.........This topic should always be discussed but never argued about by people who do not in fact know the difference under absolutely every condition and rider combo there is.
One accident a guys dies because his own body weight killed him.
The next accident a guy survives a surely deadly crash because he was fat.
" Days of Thunder " Son............ Tires Win Races.
I can promise you this................ Take the best bike & rider there is with stock tires on a OEM bike in rain or snow and put a set of Brdgestone Blizzacks on it and the guy with the CT will tear him a new a$$.
Then take the exact same bike in 95 degree heat on a curvy test track and the OEM package wins.
I am not the best rider, and I am NEVER going on a Test track with my Vision but I will ride in rain and I could hit snow by some chance even though I hope I never do.
Great topic. And I do love to hear everyones views.
Dan |
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Tourer
Posts: 329
scotts valley, California | Some gum, this dog ain't dead yet! Which is all fine and dandy for me. Every time I replace tires, I go with the E3's, and every time I kind of wonder why I did that.......... Maybe next time. Factors for me are: stick to the road in unanticipated situations, economy, maneuverability, comfort, convenience. To date I have not heard any reports of CT or MT failures in this forum that would indicate that either should be avoided. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I've taken E3 on my Vision through the snow, 9 miles, without falling and maintained a steady pace of 45 - 50 mph at below freezing temps... just saying. I have to give it to the darksiders, there is passion. But dispite all the hype, I've yet to read anything that would convince me to put a car tire on, except a trip through Alaska... |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | i just went to the dark side today (for the 3rd time on 3 bikes) . a buddy and myself were installing car tires on our bikes. he was Reinstalling a ct on his goldwing. his last CT only lasted 28000-29000 before it needed replaced. but it didnt cost him more than $140 anyways. so i guess not a bad deal. he uses a car tire because he is almost at 80000 miles on his 2.5 year old GW. This time for a CT i went with a good year assurance Fuel Max in the size 175/60-16 |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Arkainzeye - 2012-04-23 5:13 PM he uses a car tire because he is almost at 80000 miles on his 2.5 year old GW. ????? |
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | varyder - 2012-04-23 4:24 PM
Arkainzeye - 2012-04-23 5:13 PM ?he uses a car tire because he is almost at 80000 miles on his 2.5 year old GW. ?????
I think hes getting at that his friend rides alot and therefore doesnt want to spend the time and money changing tires so often.
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | aaronrkelly - 2012-04-23 5:29 PM varyder - 2012-04-23 4:24 PM Arkainzeye - 2012-04-23 5:13 PM ?he uses a car tire because he is almost at 80000 miles on his 2.5 year old GW. ????? I think hes getting at that his friend rides alot and therefore doesnt want to spend the time and money changing tires so often. Ahhhhh! I see.... |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | aaronrkelly - 2012-04-23 4:29 PM
varyder - 2012-04-23 4:24 PM
Arkainzeye - 2012-04-23 5:13 PM ?he uses a car tire because he is almost at 80000 miles on his 2.5 year old GW. ?????
I think hes getting at that his friend rides alot and therefore doesnt want to spend the time and money changing tires so often.
+1
i can imagine what 80000 miles worth of Rear MC tires would of cost in 2.5 yrs... i think that rear tire lists for $250-$275 plus labor if your dealer does the install. for me though its not always about the money. its about the hassle.. my dealers usually want you to "leave it". thats why some of the work ive done on my 08 vision i didnt even bother filing a insurance/warranty claim. i do get a kick talking to and seeing the guys that ride hardcore and use a CT.. Tens of thousands of miles of experience and not just with one ct but with all the other ones they have tried. kinda like how we are with mc tires, avon, dunlop etc..
Edited by Arkainzeye 2012-04-23 5:17 PM
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All Dark Siders (car tire) please step inside
