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Cruiser
Posts: 173
Prescott Valley, AZ | Took my Vision in for a new front tire on the 15th of Aug. During the change out the wrench noticed the front fender was cracked at the mount points on the left side. The fork seals were done last November under the extended warranty, so I'm thinkin whoever put the fender back on overtorqued it. So they order a new fender at $270.00 (long story short, the dealership has changed hands since and this guy no longer works there so I get to pay for it), So I borrow a bike for the Laughin trip we were going on as the fender won't come in for a week. 1 Week later to the day I pick up the bike with new fender installed and all is well, other than my pocket! Fast forward 10 days and I'm getting the bike ready for a trip into SE Utah over Labor Day weekend, I had heard something a couple days before like a "bang or clank" but assumed it was my thermos in the trunk. Turns out it was a BROKEN FRONT FENDER!!!!!! That's right, the fender that is less than 10 days since installed has broken completely on one side and started to crack on the other side!!!! I was at the dealer this morning before anyone else got there, had the first guy in look at it and he pulled both front pieces off so I could use the bike for my Utah trip. First opportunity you get go look VERY CLOSELY at you front fender mounts, My Vision has NEVER had ANY front end problems, never bumped a parking lot block or anything like that!!!! This TRULY SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'll talk to the dealership on Tuesday and post what they have to say after that. GO CHECK YOUR FRONT FENDERS!!!!!!!!!!
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Cruiser
Posts: 173
Prescott Valley, AZ | 1st image is the original fender (after they tried to repair it), 2nd is the broken right side of the "new" fender (out of focus but visable), 3rd pic is the left side of the "new" fender. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 72
Chino Valley, AZ | When plastics start breaking for no apparent reason it is usually because something is not lined up properly. The only cure is to make sure the forks are properly aligned, if there is any variance in the alignment all it takes is time and vibration to break it again. |
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Tourer
Posts: 324
New Orleans, La, | My origional fender cracked mysteriously and I was luck enough to have found one on Ebay for $100.00, but it too has cracked without the benefit of impact with another object. Maybe Victory needs to add a fork brace, or maybe someone in the after market should look into making one. I think I remember another post here of mysterious fender damage occurring with some other riders. I've decided to go with HMD520' s smoothy front fender, because of what I think will be a superior material for the part allowing more vibration absorption and flex, great looks, and a far better price. I'll re post once it arrives. One of the problems I see with the Victory part is that it's made of very thick, very hard, very brittle ABS plastic. Honda fenders are more flexable and better able to tolerate vibration without catastrophic failure because they are thinner and possibly a different type of plastic. They also incorporate a fork brace to help combat misalignment and fork walk. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | RustyNails - 2011-09-04 1:46 AM
When plastics start breaking for no apparent reason it is usually because something is not lined up properly. The only cure is to make sure the forks are properly aligned, if there is any variance in the alignment all it takes is time and vibration to break it again.
+1 I AGREE ... misaligned. maybe one a little lower than another? (check at the tree) there is a REASON why these broke while thousands of others do not.... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | Arkainzeye - 2011-09-04 7:28 AM
RustyNails - 2011-09-04 1:46 AM
When plastics start breaking for no apparent reason it is usually because something is not lined up properly. The only cure is to make sure the forks are properly aligned, if there is any variance in the alignment all it takes is time and vibration to break it again.
+1 I AGREE ... misaligned. maybe one a little lower than another? (check at the tree) there is a REASON why these broke while thousands of others do not....
Wow, the DUH just hit me, and hit me hard. While I'll have to totally agree on the misalignment, I'll have to say that Victory used the wrong plastic on the rear portion of the fender. I believe mine broke sometime around the 30,000 mile mark. I've remedied mine with a fix I applied and have no further issues.
If it was just the misalignment alone, the front fenders would be cracking also, but they have the better plastic.
I'm still thinking on this one, the axle assemblied would not allow for any misalignment, or enough to make the crack. Man, it is too early in the morning to be thinking on this stuff. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Cap'n Nemo - 2011-09-04 7:46 AM
Arkainzeye - 2011-09-04 7:28 AM
RustyNails - 2011-09-04 1:46 AM
When plastics start breaking for no apparent reason it is usually because something is not lined up properly. The only cure is to make sure the forks are properly aligned, if there is any variance in the alignment all it takes is time and vibration to break it again.
+1 I AGREE ... misaligned. maybe one a little lower than another? (check at the tree) there is a REASON why these broke while thousands of others do not....
Wow, the DUH just hit me, and hit me hard. While I'll have to totally agree on the misalignment, I'll have to say that Victory used the wrong plastic on the rear portion of the fender. I believe mine broke sometime around the 30,000 mile mark. I've remedied mine with a fix I applied and have no further issues.
If it was just the misalignment alone, the front fenders would be cracking also, but they have the better plastic.
I'm still thinking on this one, the axle assemblied would not allow for any misalignment, or enough to make the crack. Man, it is too early in the morning to be thinking on this stuff.
that is a GREAT point Cap'n... the axle should Not allow for a misalignment.... so it might just be tightened down too tight.. i cracked the plastic on my 08 near under the glove box door. there is a 4mm screw that i tightened too tight then i heard it crack! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 804
Perry Hall, MD | Would rubber washers be something to consider to help absorb some of the vibration and reduce stress? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | The cracking is a symptom of something other than the rigidity of the plastic or we would all have it.
Perhaps the "mechanic" who changed your fork seals put too much oil in one fork leg. This could stop the travel on that side while the other side can continue to move and would cause unintended flex in a lot of components.
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| You can check the axle by looking to see if its flush on both sides. Check the pinch bolts at the bottom of the fork tubes for being tight.
Then measure from the bottom triple tree down to the fender mounting bolts on both sides.
If all is the same then Yes there could be a lack of fluid in the one side or even to much.
There must be something out of a line cause if there is only a couple of guys with broken fenders and thousand with out something is not right |
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Tourer
Posts: 324
New Orleans, La, | I just took a look at the Wing and the LTC and they both use a plastic front fender and both mount them with one bolt up near the fork seals and one near the area between the axle and the caliper mount. Also they both employ a fender brace that supports the weight of the front of the fender and attaches near the axle. In other words they use a much more substantial brace/attachment design that spreads the weight out therefore dampening the vibration over a larger area. Just saying. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Of all the visions out there, how many have posted about cracked fenders ? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | Based on the fact that the cracks radiate up on one side and down on the other from the bolt holes, if we assume that the forks are evenly clamped in the trees, I am convinced that you are dealing with a stress that is being applied from an unequal amount of travel on one side of the forks; rather than from misalignment or over-tightening of the fender itself.
John is correct; either too much or too little oil in one fork would cause this. but certainly it appears to be an uneven fill. Easy to do if you dont have a graduated cylinder to measure the fluid, or if you're the kind of guy who thinks that close is good enough. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | V92SC - 2011-09-04 12:39 PM
I just took a look at the Wing and the LTC and they both use a plastic front fender and both mount them with one bolt up near the fork seals and one near the area between the axle and the caliper mount. Also they both employ a fender brace that supports the weight of the front of the fender and attaches near the axle. In other words they use a much more substantial brace/attachment design that spreads the weight out therefore dampening the vibration over a larger area. Just saying.
It's a common problem on the Goldwings too. Two of the guys I ride with have had it happen on their 'Wings. Replacement fenders for those bikes run about $180.
Here is a link to a popular "fix" that the 'Wingers do. http://www.rattlebars.com/chetswing/fenderfix.html
Ronnie |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | Tarpits99 - 2011-09-04 1:09 PM
Based on the fact that the cracks radiate up on one side and down on the other from the bolt holes, if we assume that the forks are evenly clamped in the trees, I am convinced that you are dealing with a stress that is being applied from an unequal amount of travel on one side of the forks; rather than from misalignment or over-tightening of the fender itself.
John is correct; either too much or too little oil in one fork would cause this. but certainly it appears to be an uneven fill. Easy to do if you dont have a graduated cylinder to measure the fluid, or if you're the kind of guy who thinks that close is good enough.
I'm only looking for a comformation in this logic,as I do not see the relationship in the improperly filled forks and the fender. The fender is mounted to the lower portion of the forks that rest on the axle, maintaining a constant and even pressure. The weight of the bike influences the pressure on the upper pistons that will cause uneven pressure on the tree if the forks are not properly filled on either side. Therefore I cannot see the fenders ever cracking even if the forks are not properly maintained. What I do note is that when I intall the fender there is a slightly greater distance in the forks than the width of the fender at the mount points. This tells me the fenders are not made proper overall, and the plastic is not flexible enough to withstand this slight deviation in some of our bikes. I've got a permanent fix on mine that I can live with and I do not see it is a fork problem at all. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | Cap'n:
As I understand the issue oil and air (or water vapor) compress and pass through the fork dampers at different rates. A fork is a relatively simple hydraulic system nothing more. Think of it like water or air getting in your brake lines and you get the idea.
An overfilled leg will stop that fork from moving the full distance that it otherwise would, while an under filled fork will continue to move beyond its intended limit.
Either way one fork moves further and at some point faster than the other creating torsion (i think that is the term). |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | love it. I'm not ignorant of the principle, it is the physics that I'm referring too. The axle "fixes" the bottom part making it impossible for the inconsistant pressure, that folk say is causing the breaking. Think about it, then convince me I'm wrong.
Edited by Cap'n Nemo 2011-09-04 3:15 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | Cap'n:
By that logic not only would there never, under any circumstance, be a need for a fork brace because the axle would add all the rigidity you need, and similarly locking the fork tubes in the clamps at different heights wouldn't matter a hill of beans either, but as far as I am aware nobody has ever advocated that practice.
Huge numbers of modern motorcycles have fender mount systems that double as fork braces. If we assume that engineers and business owners rarely do anything they view as unnecessary this would seem to be a silly waste of resources based on their widespread application.
I have to assume therefore, that while the system appears to be rigid; there is actually a fair amount of flex in the front end of a motorcycle.
There is flex in the tubes, a certain amount of play in wheel bearings, the fork seals are made of soft materials and they act as the upper bearing surface for the entire system allowing a certain amount of deflection, and if the axle wasn't built to be flexible enough to move a little under thousands of lbs of force (like hitting a pothole at 80 mph) it would eventually fatigue and break.
So back to you. I am willing to take correction, ah I mean instruction, but that is my best uneducated guess as to why it would make a difference.
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| I would love to have a fork brace on my vision. It ties the two forks together and they move more like one. Then being individual and twisting. With a fork brace you take corners and curves way quicker. A brace reduces speed wobbles, fork flex, front tire wear and rain groove sensitivity while dramatically improving overall handling and front-end stability.
The fender helps tie the two forks together so if one side keeps braking there must be some kinda stress there. Yes the axle holds the bottom of the forks in place but there is stress in the middle.
When you make a turn say abound a corner the inside one will be quicker and the out side fork will try to catch up.
With cartridge forks you have a slow process of filling them and if you don't do the proper equal amounts of fluid you will have forks working in two different ways. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| John is correct. A fork brace has nothing to do with unequal movement of the individual fork tubes up and down which I believe to be physically impossible. A fork brace's job is to keep the wheel and handlebars in line. As an example, if you were to push your front wheel up against a curb or put it in your wheel chock you would then be able to turn the handlebars a bit from side to side. This is twist as a result of flex in the tubes. The fork brace reduces the fork's ability to twist like that by adding a cross member tying the two tubes together as close as possible to the wheel. There are fork systems that actually are designed so that one tube works entirely differently than the other. I don't remember which bike it is but it has rebound dampening in one side and compression damping in the other. Obviously this doesn't cause the tubes to move independently.
Marc |
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Tourer
Posts: 324
New Orleans, La, | I just want to weigh in again since I've had 2 fenders fail and I would like to know why. I,ve never had a visible fotk fluid leak on my VV but I did on my Venture Royal and I didn't have any fender failuers. Granted the Yammy had a different type of plastic which was thinner, more flexible, and less brittle than the one on the VV. So I'm still waiting to hear an explaination or hypothesis that I can wrap my head around. Keep the theories comming, thanx. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | http://www.superbrace.com/simulation.html
It may all be advertising hyperbolae but Superbrace , in their technology simulation, shows not only the axle bending but the fork tubes themselves bending.
Obviously the extent shown is an exaggeration for the purposes of illustration and shows forks moving together, but if one tube stops moving it seems to me that the if the other side is not restricted in the same way that a some sort of flex has to happen. Surely there are some engineers here who could enlighten us.
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | so am I to believe that the steel axle is also flexing enough to cause the plastic fender to break. As I mentioned before with the forks assemblied, the width of the mounting is greater than the width of the fender on mine. Thus there is a constant outward stress when mounted that I believe causes the brittle plastic to break, nothing more, nothing less. The flaw is in the fender and not in the fork flexing, twisting and so on. After many miles and tire changes, my front axle is straight as an arrow. If it was bent enough to cause this fender crackage the axle would be warped. I'm not an engineer but I do sleep in a Holiday Inn Express when I travel and it makes me a pretty smart fellar. |
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Tourer
Posts: 523
seattle, wa | Do forks "bow out"?
I like swimmin with bowlegged wimmin.
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Cruiser
Posts: 92
Fort Walton Beach, FL | Bearcat - 2011-09-03 10:12 PM
Took my Vision in for a new front tire on the 15th of Aug. During the change out the wrench noticed the front fender was cracked at the mount points on the left side. The fork seals were done last November under the extended warranty, so I'm thinkin whoever put the fender back on overtorqued it. So they order a new fender at $270.00 (long story short, the dealership has changed hands since and this guy no longer works there so I get to pay for it), So I borrow a bike for the Laughin trip we were going on as the fender won't come in for a week. 1 Week later to the day I pick up the bike with new fender installed and all is well, other than my pocket! Fast forward 10 days and I'm getting the bike ready for a trip into SE Utah over Labor Day weekend, I had heard something a couple days before like a "bang or clank" but assumed it was my thermos in the trunk. Turns out it was a BROKEN FRONT FENDER!!!!!! That's right, the fender that is less than 10 days since installed has broken completely on one side and started to crack on the other side!!!! I was at the dealer this morning before anyone else got there, had the first guy in look at it and he pulled both front pieces off so I could use the bike for my Utah trip. First opportunity you get go look VERY CLOSELY at you front fender mounts, My Vision has NEVER had ANY front end problems, never bumped a parking lot block or anything like that!!!! This TRULY SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'll talk to the dealership on Tuesday and post what they have to say after that. GO CHECK YOUR FRONT FENDERS!!!!!!!!!!
I had the same problem with my brand new 2011... answer from Poolaris = "That's normal for that model". Good luck to you! LMAO.
Edited by Handyhoward 2011-09-05 8:39 AM
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2 broken front fenders!!
