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New user
Posts: 2
Waterford, NY | It's with humility I submit to my fellow Vision riders for some words of wisdom for keeping this 900 lb bike (plus 300 lb of passenger), upright when stopping. My challenge has been in parking lots and other tight areas. The margin of error in being even slightly off of perfectly upright, seems to be small enough to make the bike want to go down. I'd appreciate any feedback or words of wisdom from some of you more experienced riders. Much appreciated! |
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Tourer
Posts: 492
Indianapolis, IN | <p>Welcome to the forum! I assume you are new to your vision. Like any bike time on the bike will build skill and confidence. Some days I don't even think about balancing at slow speeds while two up and other days I seem to struggle. We've put about 21K on the bike in the last year, about 70% two up and I still have to work a little at stops with the wife on board. </p><p>Practice riding very slow two up in a parking lot. Slow speed skill can't be learned under normal road speeds. Get used to easing to a full stop with the bike in a state of full balance. This may not be much fun for the passenger but it is crucial to get good at it for public riding conditions. Out on the street is no place to learn this one. Another one is to practice panic stops. Sudden light changes and the car in front of you slamming on the brakes gives you little choice. This is the one that I find the most challenging. The bike is already tough to manage at slow speeds, then throw in the inertial energy of a sudden stop and it can really test your skill. Good luck.</p>
Edited by hoosiervic 2011-05-23 6:36 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 206
Lumber Bridge, NC United States | make sure your front wheel is straight when you come to a stop, if it is turned to the right or left it will feel very unstable and want to lean as it were falling to either side the wheel is turned almost learned that one the hard way. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 9
| I feel your pain, I rode my VV 08 for 2 years, loved the bike. Had over 16,000 miles on it, but because of those tippy issue's with, and without my wife on the back. The darn thing is heavy, and I'm 152 lbs. We traded for a Victory Crossbow. We're leaving for Alaska in 3 weeks pulling a Aspen Classic Camper. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | Much practice solo, much. Also, it is recommended and it has helped me a lot to exercise and keep my legs up in strength. Being in the Army for 20+ years and Airborne to boot gave perty strong legs. I helped in moments of unsteadiness to keep the bike from going beyond the point of no return. Also, exercise helps keep the mind sharp and I believe it helps for balance and coordination.
But shy of all of that, practice, practice, practice... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 123
NE Florida Jacksonville | I would suggest the "Ride like a pro" videos as a good starting point for learning low speed riding. Any one can ride fast, riding slow will take mucho practice but it is worth it. Once you become comfortable doing that you confidence ridig two up won't be an issue. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 199
Salt Lake City | +1 on getting the vids, lots of slow speed practice in a parking lot(with and without passenger), keeping that front tire straight, and practice using just the right amount of clutch-especially when going slow/turning. When I'm in tight or slow situations, the clutch is my best friend.... |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | The "Ride Like A Pro V" video is a must. If you have a Motorcycle Safety Foundation - Experience Riders Course in you area take it!
If you are lucky enough to have a "Ride Like A Pro" course in your area take that too!
In the "Ride Like A Pro V" video one of the female instructors rides Two Up on a tight figure 8 course with the Jerry ?Motorman? Palladino on the back. If she can do it is not about strength.
http://www.ridelikeapro.com/
Here is what you can do with a a Vision and a little practice... It is the 24 foot wide by 60 foot ERC box in the video...I can also do the 20 foot wide box.
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Cruiser
Posts: 117
Kansas City, MO | keep your eyes up - you will be surprised how much diffrence this makes. I had a slow speed rule with my wife - dont move, dont lean over my shoulder to tell me something, dont re adjust unless you tell me first, and I say ok. I was never a bad guy to her, we just didnt want to fall down |
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Cruiser
Posts: 185
Rhode Island | dan camarco - 2011-05-23 7:54 PM
make sure your front wheel is straight when you come to a stop, if it is turned to the right or left it will feel very unstable and want to lean as it were falling to either side the wheel is turned almost learned that one the hard way.
+1.
I had a friend that would drop the bike when stopping at an intersection and what I noticed is he would turn towards the direction he was going to go while stopping. This would happen 4 or 5 times a year until I pointed out that he was doing that with the front brake on and it was throwing off the balance.
Jim |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | I learned very quickly not to use the front brake in slow moving conditions like parking lots or those final feet coming to a stop. I ride totally hands off of the brake in parking lot manuevers. There again, review the material above from others, and go practise. If you have not taken a motorcycle safety course, put that on the top of your list and go. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1350
| A couple of things I learned over the years. First, get your passenger to take the M/C rider classes. They will better understand what you are going through. It's like night and day with a trained passenger. Second, I have 28 inch inseam. I have my passenger move their feet back on the floorboards when we stop. If I feel the toe of their boot against my calf when stopping my leg jumps and throws me out of sync.
It's bad enough stopping on a rise on a hill for a stop light but with a passenger it's multiplied. I guess only experience can solve this one.
I really push the M/C classes. They never have to ride their own bike after but it means a LOT to me. My daughter Kara took the classes but never went for the tests. I don't even realize she is back there until she says something.
Hope this helps. |
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Tourer
Posts: 374
Tucson, AZ | Best thing I can add is time and experiance, for both rider and passenger. The more a passenger is paying attention the easier it will get. Going down the road crusing is a different scenario than riding in traffic. The have to be just as aware as the rider....good luck...
mike |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | I forgot to mention that when I ride two up I put on my best boots. They are a little taller in the heel and have great traction. They provide me greater confidence when putting my feet down.
http://www.copshoes.com/c-chippewa-boots-p-CH-27868.html
Ride Safe
Edited by radioteacher 2011-05-24 6:37 AM
(Chippewa.jpg)
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 Chippewa.jpg (13KB - 1 downloads)
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
| I would have to agree, practice and practice some more. I'm 6'2" 230 and have lifted for years so I'm in good shape. That being said I still had to practice when riding two up. It's just different when someone is on the back. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Mr Sug - 2011-05-23 10:18 PM
keep your eyes up - you will be surprised how much diffrence this makes. I had a slow speed rule with my wife - dont move, dont lean over my shoulder to tell me something, dont re adjust unless you tell me first, and I say ok. I was never a bad guy to her, we just didnt want to fall down
I have Tue same rule! Everyone in a while she forget and I bark at her to remind her of what could happen..I think a lot of it has to do with the passenger seat is so Much higher throwing off the center of gravity... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | I think if you go back a reread every post and jot down points you'll get to where you need to be. Yes, the dynamics of having a passenger changes and they have to be trained. But, at the same time, we as the pilot need to be ready in anticipation of something they might do unexpectantly. And if they do, do something, explain to them lovingly why they need to be attentive to what is going on and resist nature. I would never get my wife to go to a class, but I want her to ride. So I explained all the possible situations to her and what she should do, like, don't lean the opposite way when moving slow in a parking lot. I also take note of how she'll react in certain situations and anticipate before it happens and try to correct her. Now, with all that said, she's an excellent passenger and has never put us in a compromising situation. Also, we've been in some challenging situations that she never knew there was a hint of concern on my part.
I will say that I had to be 100% confident in my ability before she ever got on the first time. And when she did, we were in those safe environments to see what she would do. Like manuevering back streets and roads with little or no traffic, or parking lots where there were not a lot of cars, but I would "pretend" there were and would react as though they were. Today, we ride as one, and she understands what to do and not to do, but it took measured practice on both our parts. |
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Tourer
Posts: 520
Simi Valley, CA | Good points. I hardly ever ride two up, but when I do I noticed that when stopping, keeping the front wheel straight is the key for me. Not turning it when I stop to prepare for a upcoming turn. Almost dumped it a couple of times like that. You earn pretty quickly what works! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | What does Star Fleet have to say about that? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | I learned a valuable lesson about heavy bikes the first time I rode my e-glide. I dropped it at a stop sign when I put my foot down on a sandy surface.
1) Keep the bike as close to perpendicular to the road as you can when stopping. A passenger shifts the center of gravity up and to the rear and will really show you your bad habits.
2) Consider lowering the bike if you have short legs. While it's not my problem (I have a 36" inseam), it's hard to hold up a big touring bike if you are standing on your toes. You get a lot more leverage if you can spread your legs a little at a stop. Think of your feet as the base of a triangle . The wider the base the more stable it will be , as long as you are not shifting the center of gravity by leaning the bike.
My e-glide was lowered 1.5", my brother-in-law's bike is stock. The differences in the way they feel at low speed and at stop lights was pretty astonishing , esp. with a passenger. If you do lower your bike - get the Ness bash plate to protect the cases from speed bumps.
3)Wear rubber soled boots. Leather slips too easily and gets down right dangerous when surfaces are wet or sandy.
4) Always be sure of your surface before you put your feet down. Nothing is more embarrassing than putting a foot down and causally leaning 900 lbs of bike and then busting a hernia trying to keep it from falling over as the light changes because your foot slipped.
5) Finally - use the rear brake. While maneuvering at low speeds practice keeping the revs up a little and control your speed with the rear brake. It keeps the bike more controllable and reduces the effect of jerky throttle response that occurs when the EFI cuts out, which can effect your stability and your confidence. If you are free-wheeling you are not in control.
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Cruiser
Posts: 119
| SLOWING DOWN AND BALANCING FOR A STOP SIGN
1. In the process of stopping have your passenger lean slightly to the left. Various ways to do this......my wife moves her head and upper torso a few inches to the left. 2. Last ten feet of your stopping.......put your left leg out, with your foot a few inches from he pavement.....few inches from the bike. All things being equal....doing these two things will have the bike leaning toward the left at the stop. Eliminates the other option totally....bike leaning to the right at the stop. >>>>>> Other items 1. Come to a very gradual stop say over last 30 feet vs doing most of the braking near end of the stop. 2. Never apply heavy braking at a stop sign just the last few feet.........this always gets the Vision unstable for me, plus for some reason when I do this I put my left foot out and on the ground a tad too early and the bike is still moving.....ahhhhh not good. Just happens to me I am sure though. 3. Try rear brake only during slow stops.......then try rear brake and small delay to front brake and both evenly.......finally try front brake only. One will work for you. 4. Try each of the recommendations from others and ones in my post..........different things work for different people......however I will say after 10k on our Vision I still screw up a few slow stops each ride >>>>>> STOP SIGN ...and tight right turn.....not going to wide Apply the rear brake ever so slightly in the turn....wick up throttle a we bit to offset this. Doing this will allow the Vision to take these tight right turns from a stop much tighter. Same with left turns. People on this line told me this trick........great result. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 965
New York State | +1 on hands off the front brake learn to ride slow with clutch and rear brake.The Vision is very stable I have had Donna stand up and start taking pictures without ever bothering to tell me and we are still alive. |
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Tourer
Posts: 401
| Make a mental note; treat the bike with finesse not force. |
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Tourer
Posts: 520
Simi Valley, CA | Star fleet? Sulu drives most of the time, I normally say thing like, "Get us outta here Scotty", or "give me all the power you can muster mister", and of course, "all ahead warp factor 6".
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Cruiser
Posts: 119
| Trekwolf164 - 2011-05-24 1:06 PM +1 on hands off the front brake learn to ride slow with clutch and rear brake.The Vision is very stable I have had Donna stand up and start taking pictures without ever bothering to tell me and we are still alive. Actually, I like using just the front brake real soft for a gradual slow down to the stop when coming to a redlight or stop sign. Combine this with my wife leaning a wee bit to the left and it works ......ahhhhh......most of the time Using front brakes only keeps both feet ready to get on the ground from the same starting position on the floorboards. Ofcourse no gravel or stuff on the road that front brake would possibly lock due to lack of traction. Forgetting all the high theory and personal things that work for all of us on this topic.........the Vision can be a handfull at times coming to a stop light every now and then nomatter how many perfect/near perfect stops I have made that day. One thing for sure is each of us has an approach that works for us....and if we dont......lots of options here to try to find what does work. Mike |
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Two-Up, Stabillity When Stopping
