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Slow Speed Turn In Issue Jump to page : 1 2 3 4 5 6 Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
Discussion -> Vision Tech Q&A | Message format |
team222 |
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Cruiser Posts: 119 | Problem 1: Riding two up I am having issues with slow speed turn in.....the Vision always seems to want to go wide on any sharp turn at less than 15 mph. Same from stops and taking a right or left turn. Problem 2: In twisties riding two up...... the Vision seems to want to keep leaning in beyond what I want in turns Above problems do not exist riding solo. Thanks for your ideas and help Mike
Edited by team222 2010-09-12 9:00 PM | ||
buzz64077 |
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Cruiser Posts: 215 orrick, mo | Try slapping your rider. They aren't doing the same thing your doing. Honestly have a good chat with your rider about what your expect them to do in any given situation. | ||
varyder |
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Visionary Posts: 8144 New Bohemia, VA | I was going to say do more 1up riding before going 2up riding. Then when you know how to ride, school your ride on what to do before getting on the bike. Your life depends on it.... But nah, I'll sit this one out... | ||
team222 |
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Cruiser Posts: 119 |
We have been riding together for years on sport, tour and sport/tour bikes..... and have not had an issue like this on any of these bikes. Additionally we dont have the problems as stated.... above 15mph...... To me it feels as if the front is unweighted a bit | ||
varyder |
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Visionary Posts: 8144 New Bohemia, VA | The Vision is a different machine than what most are accustomed too. First, at sit, the Vision weight distro is 50/50. Second, the center of gravity is setting low, and the rigidness of the frame of a bike this size puts another factor in there. I still would encourage you to ride 1up for a time, then do the 2up ride. I read too many times, and I know of a friend who just had an accident and they can be attributed back to not being familiar with that particular bike. Practise, practise, practise has no substitute. | ||
Tarpits99 |
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Iron Butt Posts: 742 North Orange County CA | Are you adjusting the rear shock for the added weight of the passenger and gear? If so you might double check the accuracy of the hand pump gauge. The gauge on my Victory hand pump is totally WORTHLESS; as in off by about 50%. I use my tire gauge (which is accurate) to set the rear shock pressure. Edited by Tarpits99 2010-09-12 11:07 PM | ||
tonyj |
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Cruiser Posts: 111 Salina, KS | Tarpits99 - 2010-09-12 11:06 PM Are you adjusting the rear shock for the added weight of the passenger and gear? If so you might double check the accuracy of the hand pump gauge. The gauge on my Victory hand pump is totally WORTHLESS; as in off by about 50%. I use my tire gauge (which is accurate) to set the rear shock pressure. This is exactly what I found out after searching for my "weird" handling trait when 2up. | ||
RedRider |
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Visionary Posts: 1350 | Try throttling around the turn. I have found Victorys handle better when giving power through the turns. | ||
team222 |
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Cruiser Posts: 119 | varyder - 2010-09-12 11:50 PM The Vision is a different machine than what most are accustomed too. First, at sit, the Vision weight distro is 50/50. Second, the center of gravity is setting low, and the rigidness of the frame of a bike this size puts another factor in there. I still would encourage you to ride 1up for a time, then do the 2up ride. I read too many times, and I know of a friend who just had an accident and they can be attributed back to not being familiar with that particular bike. Practise, practise, practise has no substitute. We already have 3k miles on it .....almost all have been two up so I was thinking the getting to know the bike should be over by now. I have 250+k miles on other bikes over the years but the only issue with the Vision is this slow speed turn in as described in my first post. Given the problem is not there when I am riding solo.....I was thinking it has to do with the extra weight of rding two up but no one here has stated any issues like we have. I have had my wife push forward on the seat a bit and this helps somewhat, but taking tight turns at less than 15mph or moving out from a stop sign/red light for a right or left turn still has the bike wanting to go wide. Maybe if you could go through how you actually take a right or left turn at a redlight with a passanger and cases full might help.....maybe there is something simple/fundamental I am doing wrong. Thx for you input Mike Edited by team222 2010-09-13 9:46 AM | ||
team222 |
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Cruiser Posts: 119 | RedRider - 2010-09-13 7:09 AM Try throttling around the turn. I have found Victorys handle better when giving power through the turns. You are right there in turns that can be taken at higher speeds..... my issue is very tight turns below 15mph or moving out from a red light for immediate right or left turn and the bike always wants to run wide riding two up. | ||
team222 |
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Cruiser Posts: 119 | Tarpits99 - 2010-09-13 12:06 AM Are you adjusting the rear shock for the added weight of the passenger and gear? If so you might double check the accuracy of the hand pump gauge. The gauge on my Victory hand pump is totally WORTHLESS; as in off by about 50%. I use my tire gauge (which is accurate) to set the rear shock pressure. Good point. I did adjust the rear air setting for our combined weights, but will check this with another tire guage. Along these lines I would like to ask if higher air settings in the rear shock increases the back seat height...... compared to lower air settings? Thanks for your reply and suggestion Mike
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pollolittle |
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Visionary Posts: 2027 Brighton, TN | Just a thought not even worth the $.02, with the passenger on, hit a big parking lot, using four parking spaces next to each other, have the passenger dismount and see if you can do the box maneuver solo. Then, if successful, mount passenger (on bike, you could have another sidebar for that comment), then try maneuver again. If unsuccessful, see what mounted passenger is doing, or is she tickling you or trying to drive via joystick, any other info would be great or pictures if necessary. I find that with the wife on at speed or slow turns, I can feel her trying to dip early into corners and she will shift weight to the inside of a turn instead of staying put in the middle and following me, but when we dance she likes to lead. Maybe we should change spots and I ride b!t@h. Seems to me the bike is far more responsive to what I have ridden previously, which makes it so much fun for me. But just very light hip movement and I or she can move the bike. With no hands on the handlebar, I let her drive from the backseat. She didn't believe me when I told her she could drive. I did it to make her aware of how much input she has on the handling and the direction we go in smoothly or with effort. She gets it now. I also showed her how much of her moving I can control by having her lean as far to the left or right as she was willing to go and that we would still go straight. I highly recommend these demonstrations. My decision maker don't believe it till she sees it. Once again this is a disclaimer, which did not include his driving skill, oil, handgrips, or the level of his testosterone. However he should play and ride as much as possible, the bike or passenger, where work doesn't interfere. Because you have to make money to keep the toys happy! :-{)}} Thats a long goatee for those of you who don't know, cause I ain't never figured out how to put those fance cartoon fellers in my posts. | ||
pollolittle |
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Visionary Posts: 2027 Brighton, TN | yes and let the air totally out of the back shock and you will see just how much, it goes down quite a bit. There is no spring, just a shock. whew, I feel winded. Edited by pollolittle 2010-09-13 9:51 AM | ||
adirondacks |
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Tourer Posts: 323 Troy, NY | I know this is a simple thing....however is your front tire at the right psi. When it is low, and low by only a couple of PSI, the tire feels wobbly. I have my front tire close to 40 psi with 2up. Sometimes its the simple things that cause the problem and we out think it. This is only based on experience | ||
team222 |
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Cruiser Posts: 119 | adirondacks - 2010-09-13 10:58 AM I know this is a simple thing....however is your front tire at the right psi. When it is low, and low by only a couple of PSI, the tire feels wobbly. I have my front tire close to 40 psi with 2up. Sometimes its the simple things that cause the problem and we out think it. This is only based on experience I checked tires and rear shocks before our trip last weekend and set to specs......but will check again with the other gauge I have. You are right...simple things do make a big difference. Seat of pants here....but I dont think it is tire pressure related to the slow speed lack of turn in since in moderate turns at higher speeds what happens every so often is the bike everything feels fine....then the bike just falls in too fast as if it is in control and I have to gas it up or change the lean angle. This can happen when tires are set too high. Thx Edited by team222 2010-09-13 10:26 AM | ||
team222 |
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Cruiser Posts: 119 | pollolittle - 2010-09-13 10:49 AM Just a thought not even worth the $.02, with the passenger on, hit a big parking lot, using four parking spaces next to each other, have the passenger dismount and see if you can do the box maneuver solo. Then, if successful, mount passenger (on bike, you could have another sidebar for that comment), then try maneuver again. If unsuccessful, see what mounted passenger is doing, or is she tickling you or trying to drive via joystick, any other info would be great or pictures if necessary. I find that with the wife on at speed or slow turns, I can feel her trying to dip early into corners and she will shift weight to the inside of a turn instead of staying put in the middle and following me, but when we dance she likes to lead. Maybe we should change spots and I ride b!t@h. Seems to me the bike is far more responsive to what I have ridden previously, which makes it so much fun for me. But just very light hip movement and I or she can move the bike. With no hands on the handlebar, I let her drive from the backseat. She didn't believe me when I told her she could drive. I did it to make her aware of how much input she has on the handling and the direction we go in smoothly or with effort. She gets it now. I also showed her how much of her moving I can control by having her lean as far to the left or right as she was willing to go and that we would still go straight. I highly recommend these demonstrations. My decision maker don't believe it till she sees it. Once again this is a disclaimer, which did not include his driving skill, oil, handgrips, or the level of his testosterone. However he should play and ride as much as possible, the bike or passenger, where work doesn't interfere. Because you have to make money to keep the toys happy! :-{)}} Thats a long goatee for those of you who don't know, cause I ain't never figured out how to put those fance cartoon fellers in my posts. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......maybe if I could fit a camera in such a way to see what is going on back there when we are riding two up all of this might be solved. Lots of good input in your post and yes I am going to try what you said and let her steer the bike from the back as a means help solving this. Sidebar: I went to a vintage bike rally last week and most showed up on their daily ride new/newer bikes.....but I got out on the Vision solo on one of the group rides which was going the speed limit on a long straight with two lanes each direction.....and to entertain myself I set the Vision on cruise...hopped on the back seat and put my hands on the passenger grab rails and then..... glided by the other bikes in the passing lane. You should have seen their faces when I went by.......hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... | ||
pollolittle |
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Visionary Posts: 2027 Brighton, TN | Done it myself quite a bit. I enjoy the view up there on that perch. There are even a few who are amazed at the other few who do this move, successfully. I have ridden up to 16 miles up there, with no input into the handlebars. Fairly long straights and a few turns involved. Not a big deal, just gotta figure it out. Don't know if you are aware of the box manuever. But the four parking spots are equivalent for the most part as the box. Edited by pollolittle 2010-09-13 10:42 AM | ||
team222 |
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Cruiser Posts: 119 | pollolittle - 2010-09-13 11:40 AM Done it myself quite a bit. I enjoy the view up there on that perch. There are even a few who are amazed at the other few who do this move, successfully. I have ridden up to 16 miles up there, with no input into the handlebars. Fairly long straights and a few turns involved. Not a big deal, just gotta figure it out. Don't know if you are aware of the box manuever. But the four parking spots are equivalent for the most part as the box. I just thought of it since the ride was so boring and 1mph over the speed limit was a no no. I did practive a couple of times just before doing it but it was scarrrrry to go for it with just a few minutes ahead of time trying it out. Now riding like that as you did for 16 miles is a far diff matter than the weinie time I was up on the back seat. Dont know box manuever .....what is this.....am I going to be sorry I asked | ||
VisionTex |
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Visionary Posts: 1484 LaPorte,Tx. | When the rear motorcycle tire on the Vision wears, it wears flat. So, if your making a slow turn left or right, more input from you has be take place to make that slow turn, because at slow speed there is no counter steer happening, your lean angle has to increase to break over that flat tire surface to the edge of the tire. What I do alot when the rear gets worn is drag the back brake through a slow turn and input through the bars while increasing the throttle, you can put that bike just about anywhere on the in the lane by doing that. In the speedy turns, the effect goes away because your counter steering the bike which overrides the rear tire forces and gets you up on the edge of the tire. But as you described you may fall further into the turn than you really want. With that a little throttle will bring you back in line, also, be sure your looking through the apex not at it. One last thing, when my wife is on the bike, it handles completely different. | ||
radioteacher |
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Visionary Posts: 3006 San Antonio, TX | Here is my Vision riding in the ERC MSF box that is measured 24 feet wide by 60 feel long. | ||
pollolittle |
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Visionary Posts: 2027 Brighton, TN | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGCgbEID83U&feature=related Here's a pretty good visual of it also. You can also go the other way across four spaces. Edited by pollolittle 2010-09-13 12:49 PM | ||
adirondacks |
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Tourer Posts: 323 Troy, NY | VisionTex - 2010-09-13 1:29 PM When the rear motorcycle tire on the Vision wears, it wears flat. So, if your making a slow turn left or right, more input from you has be take place to make that slow turn, because at slow speed there is no counter steer happening, your lean angle has to increase to break over that flat tire surface to the edge of the tire. What I do alot when the rear gets worn is drag the back brake through a slow turn and input through the bars while increasing the throttle, you can put that bike just about anywhere on the in the lane by doing that. In the speedy turns, the effect goes away because your counter steering the bike which overrides the rear tire forces and gets you up on the edge of the tire. But as you described you may fall further into the turn than you really want. With that a little throttle will bring you back in line, also, be sure your looking through the apex not at it. One last thing, when my wife is on the bike, it handles completely different. Thanks this is great to know!!! | ||
sgiacci |
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Tourer Posts: 401 | MSF 101 folks. Are you looking past the turn? If not the Vision is very sensitive with 2 up to go wide if you don't look past the turn. It is very common with group riding and traffic to make this mistake. I found that I was not looking far enough ahead into the turn (not the ditch or curb) when riding 2 up, and my turns were wide. When I realized what I was doing the bike settled in and snapped right around the turn. Oh, and another thing. Instead of just letting off the throttle or giving it gas in a turn, I feather the clutch (friction zone) at slower speeds because there is so much torque it will unsettle the weight balance if I fiddle with the throttle in a turn. Edited by sgiacci 2010-09-13 3:46 PM | ||
RhodeTrip |
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Cruiser Posts: 185 Rhode Island | Team222, The other thing that comes to mind is that your other half now has a much better view and different position; ask her to pay attention to her movements through a slow speed turn and compare it to previous. Edited by RhodeTrip 2010-09-13 6:58 PM | ||
baadawg |
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Tourer Posts: 499 Chattanooga, TN | Just a suggestion, check your tire pressure and condition. I ran 38/38 for some time, (just like Vic recommends) religiously checking tire pressure and rear shock air pressure. I weigh 250 lbs, almost always ride solo and at that tire pressure setting, the front tire was cupping badly. This caused the bike to want to turn sharper than I wanted it to. After replacing the front tire, running 41-42 psi front and rear, it is perfect now. | ||
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