|
|
Cruiser
Posts: 256
Florida | When I see the number of people logged in at any specific time and typically see single digits I wonder, how do we spread the word of this forum?
The reason I ask is there are a bunch of great folks here that don't trash others and provide strong guidance about various bike-related topics.
I've placed links in my blog here, but have no way of knowing if that's helping. I know that it's not hurting...that's a good thing. Hey, I even bought the T-Shirt! Great Logo!
Any suggestions? |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | When Im on the #'s are usually between 10-20. I think most are either riding or waiting. Its hard to sit stll when the weathers nice and theres a Vision in the garage. |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| From my experience with the VTX owners forum I think you will find that dealers in general do not like to promote an internet based forum. The reason is that we (meaning the forum) usually have access to and spread information, some of which is inaccurate, about certain subjects that the dealers either do not have yet or don't want to be widely known, such as how Victory has been very slow with deliveries to dealers (I just found out today that my ship date got moved back from March 5th to March 19th  ). The dealers also usually have the view that the tech Q&A aspect of these internet forums takes away business from their service departments.
Views will vary................. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | TM, you're right about how dealers feel about forums and I have had many discussions with my dealer about the forums. There are some misguided answers found here and we are all focused on what we see and preceieve the world to be. With that said, the forums can be a great venue to figure out things as well, even tech stuff. Collectively they can paint a picture, but all of us must realize that the dealers are our local "experts" and support when we need real help. The forums are the place to throw something against the wall to see if it sticks, but better yet, it is the place we can just share and have fun with other like enthusiast. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 256
Florida | It's a shame the dealers feel this way. I understand their method of thinking, but it's very old school. Since Victory is the New American Motorcycle and has introduced innovative products, you would think they would encourage the dealers to embrace technology, not battle it. After all, isn't the theme of the Vision, "We're not rewriting American history, we're making it?"
At some point they will realize that even bikers are into the information age and that information is power. Properly marketed, it can raise awareness and generate enthusiasm for the brand.
I guess they are still stuck in the 60s. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Well PBR, not trying to side either way, dealers would have a tough time trying to monitor the forums for legitimate concerns because I would assume none are staffed to do so. Also, in any forum, bad information is easily spread, especially for those who are not familiar with the overall product. As an example, when my Vision began stalling and I read the posts on thevmc.com about the rectifier recall, I immediately assumed mine was affected. They checked it and found that mine was not even in the serial number range affected, yet I found it stalling. They rode the bike for many miles, and as it would be they could not duplicate the symptom. I went back to the forum and had about 5 different "check this and that" and I ran back to my dealer and asked if they had checked it. It was at that time I realized I was insulting them by listing to everything I was being told on the forum and expected them to follow my instructions. The truth of the matter, they are well trained technicians who followed proper procedures and came up empty handed. I backed off and would visit and continue a good relationship and they tried a few things, at my suggestion that made sense, and still no fix. At my 7,500 mile service I let them do it and low and behold, the issue is gone. Now, I don't think that they held any secrets, or the such, but being a machine, something wasn't running right, but now it is, but it is not known how it was fixed. A series of things were done and noted, and any given one could have been the culprit. But my point is that by constantly telling them that "someone said" on the forum, only told them how much I don't trust their compentency.
Now with all that rambling, there is a very good model site out there for how technician site should be ran, and it's called iatn.com, however, they do not address motorcycles, but it would be nice if the motorcycle industry could incorporate that among there technicians to share information. iatn does an excellent job of this for the techs, by the techs. The average Joe or Joette, can cite a million symptoms, but a tech is the only one that can deciepher what they test and determine.
Sorry for the ramblings, but I think the forums should stick to chatter and sharing with each other. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 256
Florida | You're correct and have identified the problem. But I still find it disturbing that they don't even take a few moments to read what others are saying. It's very small minded. Remember, the customers have more seat time than the dealer management and they should listen to ideas, both good and bad. It will create a sense of an in-store community and allow rider to feel comfortable simply stopping by, having a soft drink and tossing around ideas. This community can let them know what the riders are looking for and the dealer can order accordingly.
Sounds too simple to me. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | Thats why I feel strongly about the services being done by a dealer. Sure, we joke about it. We can change oil and do a walk around, but do we know what we're looking at? When someone qualified does it, he knows what he's looking for , we dont. Plus the dealer has the latest, up to date info. What may not have a fix today, may have tomorrow. Manufacturers have people working on these bugs around the clock. They may only work 9-5 but I'm sure when they go home their mind is still on the problem. I know of one guy that spent thousands at independants trying to fix a trans shudder on his truck when all he needed was a software update on his engine computer. $100 fix.
But we also have to understand the owners frustration. Having a problem the dealer cant find can be frustrating. All the suggestions on this website have been intelligent, well thought out and reasonable. With a little ribbing thrown in to help ease the tension. Thats why its important to keep in touch with you dealer and understand what he's dealing with. The guy that designed it is pulling a six figure salary. The guy trying to fix it, way less. Im posative he's doing his best.
This is a new model with its own new bugs. The things they learn this year will make next years even better.
Judging from this forum, there are a lot more positives than negatives when is comes to the Vision.
If its perfect, we're probably dead. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 256
Florida | Do we know for a fact that Victory is delivering regular service bulletins to the dealerships? It's a new bike and no 1st generation product comes out of the box perfect every time. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | I dont know about Victory but the auto dealers are all computerized. As soon as its reviewed and approve its released to the tech website. Available to all authorized dealers. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | Dont get me wrong there are a lot of talented independants out ther, but they are a few years behind, considering the warrenties and extended warrenties. They wont see and have a chance to gain experience on the new models for some time. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | The dealer can get insulted but the Vision is not a typical Victory upgrade. It is a leap into uncharted territory in a lot of areas. The suggestions from the BMW, Gold Wing, Harley Ultra riders and others who have ridden big tourers can save a lot of guessing on Victory's part on how to do things right. I'm sure Victory already has prototype systems in the works for many of the things suggested online. Everyone has to realize that we all just want the best and that suggestions are just that, suggestions. Especially if the answer from the dealer is "I don't know." As far as getting more people to find this site, you have to realize that Victory is tiny in the world of motorcycles. They have been around 10 years and from the numbers I've heard, (around 7,500 units/year) there are probably less than 100,000 Victory's ever made prior to this year. (They don't officially post numbers so I may be way off base but unless someone in the know straightens me out, my numbers are as good as any.) The Motorcycle Industry Council estimates that 1.11 million motorcycles were sold in the U.S. in 2007. 7,500 Victory's out of 1.11 million just last year is tiny, .0068 percent. All of that is about to change. The numbers will stay small percentage-wise for a while but as far as people never hearing of Victory Motorcycles, those days will soon be history. Victory is one of the few motorcycle manufacturers actually increasing production numbers every year. They have proven themselves in their ability to make a quality product. Now they are taking on the task of being cutting edge with their styling and in many ways with their engineering. By the end of this summer, when every North American Vision owner (plus the one in the U.K.!) gets to get out and be seen on their bikes, the buzz will expand exponentially. The best kept secret in the motorcycling world is about to get blown wide open. People see the Vision and have no clue what they are looking at. Once they learn the name, Vision-Riders will become ground zero.
|
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 150
Las Vegas, Nevada USA baby! | Songfan,
You are so right on about people just now learning about Victory. I park my Vision in front of the radio station where I work, and folks often gather around and chat. The office manager often comes back to my production studio to ask if I have time to go out to chat.
I can't always get away, but when I do, the questions are often from men in their 40's 50's and 60's wanting to know more. Some know about Victory, some have heard of Victory but don't know, and when I mention Polaris some even have Polaris quads, but didn't ever learn more about Victory. Many are often giving accolades to the "New American Motorcycle'" having given a choice besides H-D!
I would like to be able to have flyers on a dispenser rack that I can suction cup to my Pegasus (my Vision) so that when I am busy they can just "TAKE ONE" flyer to learn more! We are getting the word out folks, yes, we are getting the word out. And this is a work that we are all called for as members of a new "fraternity" of Vision Riders. Hey, I don't care if they decide to check out Victory and go for the Vegas or the Hammer or the Kingpin, as long as they know they now have a choice of the "New American Motorcycle"!
EdRadio |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | Well we do get traffic from all over. Well over 100,000 page views each month and increasing by about 20% as each month passes. And we do appreciate those who "spread the word."
As far as dealers, whether interested or not, few have the time to "visit forums." Also, just because a Dealer has computers, doesn't mean they use them for anything but their connections to their vendors, inventory, ordering, tech data, etc..
And really, if you think about it, the purpose of a site like this besides to do research, ask questions, make a few friends maybe, is to get people TO the dealers.
I really just wanted to pop into this thread and say "thanks" for everyone's support. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Strong discussion. I agree with all that is said. I know my dealer has read the forums and glean what they can, because the customer perception of the production and what stands behind it is what is at stake here. That is what marketing is all about, however, the forums can be overwhelming with information, so the whole has to be looked at, just to find the relavent part. Grant it, most folk here are very intelligent (I'm resisting comments about feathered friends and the like) so there is a lot of great input that someone can formulate an assessment to a need or a problem. Our dealers are still at the mercy of the parent company, Victory, in trying to get to us what they think we want. Victory has a long way to go to grow, though they are strong in what they sell, they are still very small. It goes back to a comment I read, a large portion of motorcycles out there today are "toys" and most know and understand that. The obvious on marketing is hitting the target. I saw a clip where a Goldwing was doing wheelings, spinning tires and racing down some twistieis. When the bike stopped and the camera zoomed in, a young man took off his helmet showing his youth and looked at the camera "this is not your daddy's Goldwing." and then he raced off again. The point being is they where trying to attract the younger crowd. But not many 18 - 30 year olds I know can really afford a $26k sports bike, so I think they were trying to grab the .05 percent that could, but at the same time speaking to the older folk, wow, a big bike like that can do that and be a tourer too!?
I sure talk a lot, but folks are "looking" or should I say lurking for their own reasons, but particiapation will increase over time. For the most part, the board will flux as the weather changes, curiousity grows and interest fall else where, much like any other forum. I just hope they (pollolittle, BUCKEYE, and whoever else) don't produce that video they were talking about because that would scare a lot a way and stunt any growth we've had so far.
And for more rambling and sticking to the orginal post, a lot of folk are not net saavy or have a computer to be drawn to the site. I know that my dealer has a big "TheVMC.com" banner in the showroom, so that draws some to there, and other don't know this exist yet, and believe it or not, there are about two if not more exclusive Vision rider forum that are not doing very well. TheVMC.com has a forum section for the Vision, that is really filled with posts from here and filled with comments from other Victory owner that ride something other than a Vision. This site has only been successful because we make it successful in that we like what has been provided here.
I've sat down... the floor is yours...
Edited by varyder 2008-03-08 6:34 AM
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Miles, you all have done a bang-up job with this site in such a short period of time. I was involved in another forum for a different that other tourer type bike and grew tired of it quickly. This one has a great format and response, and is not seperate from the rest of the stuff. I've mentioned this before, but I believe we need to form an "association" of Vision Riders without detracting from Victory efforts. By doing so we stand to gain in having discounts in insurance and so on. We Vision riders may be small, but since we are the charter members of this elite ride, we need to think about our future as a collective group for our benefit as a whole. Of course, name would be the first thing on the agenda. VRA is already taken, so to throw one out there, how about just VA, Visionaire Association?
Miles - 2008-03-08 6:20 AM
Well we do get traffic from all over. Well over 100,000 page views each month and increasing by about 20% as each month passes. And we do appreciate those who "spread the word."
As far as dealers, whether interested or not, few have the time to "visit forums." Also, just because a Dealer has computers, doesn't mean they use them for anything but their connections to their vendors, inventory, ordering, tech data, etc..
And really, if you think about it, the purpose of a site like this besides to do research, ask questions, make a few friends maybe, is to get people TO the dealers.
I really just wanted to pop into this thread and say "thanks" for everyone's support.
Edited by varyder 2008-03-08 6:56 AM
|
|
| |
|
Fountain Inn, SC United States | PBR et al, thanks for the kind words about this site. Miles & I decided over a year ago that it was needed, based on a number of factors: - The VMC had turned into a flame-fest pitting member against member. Too many people were overreacting and being nasty, as if they were all in the same bad marriage.
- Dues-paying VMC club members felt they were not being heard and that their $15/yr dues entitled them to a higher level of service
- The VRA had instituted a membership/subscription fee
- The Vision had just been unveiled
- We felt that the Vision would have a tremendous following
- We wanted to create a privately-owned, self-sustaining, but open and free to the masses, web community.
- We wanted to provide a place for in-depth, definitive information (such as our articles & tech sections).
- Basically we wanted to bridge the gap between consumer reviews, an accessory market portal, and a community riding group.
For those that know me from the VMC (as Jedi), I can tell you it is especially pleasing to see the friendship and helpfulness that's developed, reminiscent of the early VMC years.
As Miles has said, we are growing steadily and, based on the number of Visions produced since 9/1/07—I make a rough guess of 500 units, and further estimate Vision-Riders has been visited at least once by about 40% of the owners and 10-20% of the serious near-term potential buyers. Now, while that's quite a feat, I agree with you, I would like to see things grow at a faster rate and have already captured a higher slice of the market.
To speak to the Vision's target market, Mark Blackwell gave a presentation to shareholders in Jan.2007 where he touched on Victory's marketing research with respect to the Vision. Vision-Riders has had a pdf of this available for download since last July or so. Here's the link again: VictoryMotorcycles_1-19-07v2.pdf -be warned, it's a 8mb file. Blackwell indicates the Vision's market is- median age : 50
- HHI: $94,000
- 95% Men but shifting
- Want A Choice And/0r Something Different, and want to buy American
- Style & Comfort Most Important
- Have Time, Money & Spirit Of Adventure
I'd say most of you fit that description. Now, that report was probably assembled in late 2006 when the economy was in better shape. With today's sub-prime debacle and increased uneasiness, and the ambiguity of the focus of the nation (read: presidential race), I think sales figures of the Vision will slow a bit and that will impact the readership of this site. Can't do anything about it, but I'll continue to try and make this site as attractive as possible, staying within the founding guidelines I mentioned above.
Thanks for listening
Jeff |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Wow, wow! Thanks Jeff, that brief was very informative and helped me understand what I got myself into. All I knew before I got the Vision that I love to ride a motorcycle and therefore I ride, I never knew I would be part of the innovation of the Vision. I almost fall into every category that is the target market, and venture to say it goes beyond the over all touring deal. I ride everyday, even yesterday and today with rain is in the forcast and they are 100% right for once, so free and easy down the road I go. I'll even comment further, in that I was asked one day if I even had a car, since I ride, rain, shine and even on days there was a possibility of frozen precipatation on the ground. I considered my "tourer" to be the open road ride and entertained getting a scoot for to and fro work and around town. The wife said NO!, that is why you bought the Vision, to ride, period. The great thing is that in versitality, the Vision fits all categories. It is never a monster to handle in a busy parking lot, or a busy city street and she's always ready to hit the open road.
So how about the Visionaire Assocation? Maybe not the best name, but its a start.
One more note what's VMC? (sorry, I'm being facetious) |
|
| |
|
Fountain Inn, SC United States | varyder - 2008-03-08 9:51 AM
One more note what's VMC? (sorry, I'm being facetious)
The VMC is the Victory Motorcycle Club. I built their website and was webmaster for a number of years. Miles did all the back-end programming and support for the site as well. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 256
Florida | My two cents: A name needs to state its exact purpose at at glance. That's what "branding" is all about. After some thought, here's my suggestion: Vision Owner's Group - VOG. Not HOG, but VOG. VOG can also represent: Victory Owner's Group.
Any Thoughts? |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | JAM - 2008-03-08 10:15 AM
varyder - 2008-03-08 9:51 AM
One more note what's VMC? (sorry, I'm being facetious)
The VMC is the Victory Motorcycle Club. I built their website and was webmaster for a number of years. Miles did all the back-end programming and support for the site as well.
Sorry JAM I was being facetious. I am a member of the VMC but have found Vision-Riders more of a home. I'm not a long time Victory rider and the Vision is my first Victory. I've not got much utility out of VMC site and it helped clog my mind with useless fodder never having rode a V-Twin before. Though characteristic wise V-Twins are different than a flat 4 or 6 made by them other people, it is still an infernal combustion engine, and in my opinion, the best suited for a motorcycle. I've tried to line up with the Central Virginia Chapter on VMC, but they almost never used the VMC site to chat or share info, so I've wrote that off as well. Us tourers are in a slightly different mindset so an Association for the Vision would be in order as it is with the GoldWing. So I keep lobbing that over the fence and see where it will land. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | PalmBeachRider - 2008-03-08 10:27 AM
My two cents: A name needs to state its exact purpose at at glance. That's what "branding" is all about. After some thought, here's my suggestion: Vision Owner's Group - VOG. Not HOG, but VOG. VOG can also represent: Victory Owner's Group.
Any Thoughts?
Who wants to be a VOGer? It does have potential, and but unless VMC would fade off into the sunset, Vision Owner Group would be more appropriate. Any VOGers out there? |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 256
Florida | JAM - 2008-03-08 9:10 AM
The VMC had turned into a flame-fest pitting member against member. Too many people were overreacting and being nasty, as if they were all in the same bad marriage.Dues-paying VMC club members felt they were not being heard and that their $15/yr dues entitled them to a higher level of serviceThe VRA had instituted a membership/subscription feeThe Vision had just been unveiledWe felt that the Vision would have a tremendous followingWe wanted to create a privately-owned, self-sustaining, but open and free to the masses, web community.
As stated above, there are numerous reasons that TheVMC might need some competition. While some people strive on bickering and controversy, many users can grow tired of the "flames" and seek a place to move onto. The good thing about the net, is that it's not too difficult (or expensive) to create a community. Since it appears the VMC is having some internal bickering, competition could be a good thing.
Remember when there were only three TV networks (plus PBS)? Now, there are hundreds of channels and many of them appeal to niche markets. As proven by the Goldwing sites, there is room for sites dedicated to a single product. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | PBR, are you going to be editor of the Visionaire, VOG's monthly publication??? |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 256
Florida | While this site is well managed, I see many features that are missing that could be of benefit to the community. You never know, maybe that's a good project for this retired tech guy. But taking on any new project could cut into my riding time...it's a tough decision!
I know myself and other projects I've launched in the past and understand that anything worth doing is worth doing right...or not at all.
Maybe it's something to consider. Who knows? |
|
| |
How Do We Get More People Into This Forum?
