|
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 741
Central New York | Are Visions afraid of the dirt? In the N.E they use a lot of sand in the winter and it gathers on the less traveled parts of the country roads until they get around to sweeping it off. I've noticed the Vision seems to get a real disconnect from the road when you hit a patch of this sand. A lot more than any bike I've had in the past. Seems rock solid in water, just don't like dirt. Bike and tires only got 6k on them. Tires still look new and tire pressure and shock pressure are good. Is this just a normal Vision quirk? Or am I just overly sensitive on this bike? |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | I was riding a back mountain road here in BC last summer when I ran out of pavement. Since it would have been 200 miles to turn around and find another route - I kept on - thinking the pavement would restart soon. It didn't - 30 miles of gravel/dirt. Riding 2-up.
Surprised the hell out of me - the damn thing handled like a dirt bike! Just relax and let it move around if it wants to. Was very predictable and not scary and soon I was hitting highway speeds on the stretches and slowing with throttle only in the turns. No problem.
Since we are going to Alaska this summer - this was very re-assuring to me because I know those stretches are common - and unpredictable as to when you will hit them.
Relax - I think you are "overly sensitive" as you say.....
Of course - 25 years of biking on mountain logging roads in BC might have some bearing on my opinion.
And when I think about it - sand or gravel on top of pavement can be squirelly for ANY vehicle - I always back off and use caution (if I can see it!). |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1350
| Were your old bikes as heavy as the Vision?
Sand on pavement is different than anything else.
Like wet asphalt sealer has it's own mind. MA loves squirting that stuff by the barge full. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1436
| The Vision is VERY responsive on good roads and down right scary on ANYTHING that isn't perfect roadway. The first month I owned mine I did a review in which I commented on how the front broke loose on bridge expansion joints if leaned over, talk about major pucker. In addition it is the WORST handling bike on tar snakes, to the point of being down right dangerous. I've had the front tire move several inches to a foot sideways off a tar snake. Now most bikes don't do well on tar snakes but the Vision has by far the worst reaction to them and I've owned and ridden just about every type of bagger their is. I even went so far as to replace a tire in hopes the tire was the main culprit, but it is the bike. I'm hopeful the a fork brace will cure most of this.
With that said I have not experienced a problem with road grit, sand, or road debris while riding. However the grit left at intersections after winter is slick for all bikes so use a little extra caution. The Vision is front heavy which is good for traction on good roads but can result in slides on bad roads, so be careful. You also need to remember when you put on the rear brake the front is also being applied so doing the braking before the turn will reduce the tendancy to slide if there is loose debris. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | so far I found the Vision isn't afraid of anything, however, the rider might be.... |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | I agree with Chris - my VV is as good or better than ANY bike I have owned/ridden on all solid surfaces. Now I haven't had it in mud (yet) so that might be interesting....
And Chris sure as hell is the expert on white surfaces. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Don, I don't know about expert... but I think MTV made a movie about people like me. I will agree that the Vision is better than any other bike I certainly have ridden in my collective 9 or 10 years with around 175,000 miles on 3 bikes. The situations I have been a part of with the Vision, had I been on the GL1200 I know I wouldn't be here today to write about it.
1) I was making a hard left and getting gears and started sliding in dirt and sand that was on the road. I don't know what I did, but I kept it up right and it slide around and finally regained traction.
2) I was making a hard right and hit a slimey spot in the road and it slide real good but stayed up right. I actually have a video from that in Bedford, PA
3) I have a short video in some snow/ice locally, that held steady and I was more peeved that a cager was riding my tail the whole time.
4) No video but I did ride through 9 miles of snow cover I-95 at 40-50 mph and it performed superbly for the conditions. I just wanted to get home though and didn't know anyother way but to ride it out.
5) I was riding with my precious wife unit tooling along about 50 mph approaching a grated bridge. Normally, that wouldn't bother me at all, however, on hot summer days as this was, VDOT turns on the sprinklers to cool the metal. Having realized too late that I was too fast for conditions, rubber on wet grated metal, I said something I wont' repeat here. My wife said "What did you just say?" because it was totally out of character for me, however, I thought we would be eating grated bridge for lunch. I kept my eyes straight, prayed that she would wiggle any and and and and... she rolled steadily across. I was very glad to be on pavement again.
Not disputing anyone else's experience, but I'm sure glad I had the Vision each time... |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 732
Western WA | donetracey - 2010-04-10 4:09 PM
I was riding a back mountain road here in BC last summer when I ran out of pavement. Since it would have been 200 miles to turn around and find another route - I kept on - thinking the pavement would restart soon. It didn't - 30 miles of gravel/dirt. Riding 2-up.
Surprised the hell out of me - the damn thing handled like a dirt bike! Just relax and let it move around if it wants to. Was very predictable and not scary and soon I was hitting highway speeds on the stretches and slowing with throttle only in the turns. No problem.
Since we are going to Alaska this summer - this was very re-assuring to me because I know those stretches are common - and unpredictable as to when you will hit them.
Relax - I think you are "overly sensitive" as you say.....
Of course - 25 years of biking on mountain logging roads in BC might have some bearing on my opinion.
And when I think about it - sand or gravel on top of pavement can be squirelly for ANY vehicle - I always back off and use caution (if I can see it!).
I totally agree D. I've ridden a bit of gravel and hard pack 2 up on the back roads of Wa. Easy on throttle, light on the brakes, and don't fight the bike --- shoot, you'll see places you never expected. In my experience the V handles fine.
I'm going to be interested in your Alaska run. The wife and I are planning a similar trip next year. We will ride the ferry from Seattle, drive back down.
What route are you taking? |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 447
Cleveland, GA | varyder - 2010-04-10 10:02 PM so far I found the Vision isn't afraid of anything, however, the rider might be.... What he said. See my post: http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=4089&posts=10&mid=41326&highlight=shortcut&highlightmode=1&action=search#M41326 |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | 'Breaker' - see this post for some really good info on doing the Alaska thing:
http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=3131&start=26&posts=30&highlight=ALASKA+TRIP&highlightmode=1
I'm thinking of lurking at the border until 'SIERRAVIC' comes along with his rig. Stay in his rear-views for the entire way and pray I don't need to load my VV in the back of his rig...  don |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 741
Central New York | Thanks for the input. After reading and digesting I've concluded that I tend to "fight" the bike trying to get ahead of it. I should have realized before that it is a weight thing. (This is my heaviest bike, by far) More weight in anything translates to more time, so I need to relax and give the bike a chance to do it's own thing before muscling away control. |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 388
Salisbury, NC | It does good in he dirt as long as that dirt is dry. Be careful if the dirt gets wet and turns to mud. ET |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | Lone Ranger - 2010-04-10 11:27 PM
varyder - 2010-04-10 10:02 PM so far I found the Vision isn't afraid of anything, however, the rider might be.... What he said. See my post: http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=4089&posts=10&mid=41326&highlight=shortcut&highlightmode=1&action=search#M41326 ?
Look out...SAND. I pull some stupid stuff in exploring east Texas. Just this past Friday, I ran out of pavement to oiled gravel, then to gravel, thinking I'm going to be back on pavement soon...NOPE. The GPS goes white...and I run into sand and a lot of it and a few choice words. I'm in dry sand with car tire ruts 2-3" deep not a compacted area on the road...loose sand ditch to ditch, you talk about squirely. Man, I would love to have a video of this. Down to 1st gear at about 10-15mph and working the front side to side to stay in the car rut. Dumped it once when the sand got really deep...got her back up, then dropped it trying to get on from the high side. Got it back up and going. Tip overs work in sand. Got back to the pavement after about 4 miles, got off and kiss the pavement. A good lesson learned for me...turn around when the pavement quits.  |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | hmmmm it is becoming more clearer why I don't rush out and buy a GPS. At least when I run into trouble I know where the blame goes. My wife is there remind me lest I forget. Thanks for sharing.
Edited by varyder 2010-04-11 12:02 PM
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Gave my GPS away.... I LIKE getting lost when I'm on the bike - and I (almost) NEVER have a destination in mind when I ride.
|
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 732
Western WA | donetracey - 2010-04-10 9:58 PM
'Breaker' - see this post for some really good info on doing the Alaska thing:
http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=3131&start=26&posts=30&highlight=ALASKA+TRIP&highlightmode=1
I'm thinking of lurking at the border until 'SIERRAVIC' comes along with his rig. Stay in his rear-views for the entire way and pray I don't need to load my VV in the back of his rig... don
Thanks for the heads-up on the post Don. Great reading.
Ya, I'm thinking that hanging at the border might be a fine idea indeed.  |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 266
Stockton, Ca. | Gravel, Dirt then off the road into a field of tall grass then almost into a sign on the side of the road. Last fall while riding up a remote canyon road I hit some gravel unexpectedly on a fast curve. In order to keep the bike upright I had to make it wide but the road wasn't wide enough. Ended up off the road bouncing through brush and tall grass heading right for a sign post next to the road. Fortunately experience and a cool head kept me upright and focused enough to regain control missing the sign post and managing to maneuver back onto the road. It was a scary moment but the Vision came through it like a champ. Pulled a few pieces of grass from the forks and continued on my weekend ride. I was surprised on how stable the Vision was under the circumstances but do not care to try it again. No bumps bruises scratches or dings. |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 741
Central New York | Tried it this afternoon after reading this mornings posts and my conclusion was right. Been holdin the reins too tight. Let her have her head and she does good. Feels squirly but she maintains track. I have more confidence in the bike now. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1436
| "so far I found the Vision isn't afraid of anything, however, the rider might be...."
Bikes don't have a brain, but we are suppose to. Bikes don't feel any pain when they break something, but we do.
I suppose if one was to ride on interstate most of the time or as a rule, they would have little to gripe about the Visions handling characteristics, but if one rides in the great N.E. the conditions dictate a wee bit more caution, particularly after winter. Now one could say the rider(s) are a little fearful of possible get-offs, maybe even over sensative to said get-offs. Then again there are many here who have several hundreds of thousands of miles on bikes over 40 and 50 years of riding, hell some of them without a single get-off riding all over the world. I'd say thats smart riding. The Vision is big, heavy and has it's own distinct manners... Riders have their distinct riding habits, lean angles, braking techniques, etc... All I can say with certainty is one would be well advised to practice and when they think they got it, practice some more. I'd hate to read any posts where someone rode over their head and got themselves hurt. Miles in the saddle and years ridden matter little when you get bit.
More specifically to the post, caution is the better part of valor. Be aware the bike got loose on you on that particular road hazard and always be a bit cautious when it presents itself. Personally I don't think it would have put you down, and yes you probably could have ridden right through it even with the slide (you were actually sliding with the tire in the direction of the skid due to countersteering). It is how "we" react to said hazard that impact how it works out. In this case no action may have been right, but there is no accounting for reaction unless you practice, as you did today. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I think I concur with you Teach, I'm just not sure how. Personally I feel I put the Vision through the paces all the time albeit I'll ride interstate to get to point A to point B quickly as my time is short in getting there and I take the option to ride verses fly. However, I ride often back roads to my daughter who lives in NC and my parents who live in the upper Shenadoah Valley. Plus I do have my share of back roads locally and because of farmers, construction and the general way that VDOT maintains the roads some of my rides could be a training film for defensive driving and road hazards. I don't believe it is the luck of the draw on anyone who can sucessfully roll many miles over many years without laying it down, as diligence is a must for all of us. And to say that just because someone has laid it down means there was some mistake of the rider except not riding below the posted speed limit on an unknown road some situations on a motorcycle are very unforgiving even though it is not a problem on four wheels.. Here in Va they use some kind of tar to patch and seal large sections of the back roads and they become very slick when wet, heavy or light rain, and I mean slick. I've learned to be extra cautious on these roads because they are very dangerous, especially when they use this stuff in the tight curves.
I think your point on how we react is also very important, and to say I did this or did that to counteract the situation I couldn't necessarily say here, I just know something happened that brought us through it. I do know that with the Wing in some of the situations far less serious that I have encountered with the Vision literally made me stop and catch my breath and calm myself down it was that squirrelly and scary. The Vision, to date, has never made me feel that way.
By the way, everytime I roll I practice something so as to be prepared when a situation does arise. I guess it is old paratrooper habits I have that I believe making counteractions second nature will save my life.
Edited by varyder 2010-04-11 8:55 PM
|
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 162
Extreme Southern, AZ United States | varyder - 2010-04-10 7:02 PM so far I found the Vision isn't afraid of anything, however, the rider might be.... +2 |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Think about 'reaction time'.
Say you are driving at 45 mph and hit a patch of.... something - that is say - five to ten feet in length, and it causes your bike to lose 'friction' with the road, and maybe the bike - moves? does something - to cause the rider to go "uh-oh", - that is - 'react'.
At 45 mph, this 'contact with another universe' starts - and ends - in under 3 gigafrigons (you mathematicians can do the actual number) - and whatever your 'action' to the 'reaction' will take at least 72 gigafrigons - during which time the bike has already corrected itself and is merrily on it's way.... until your feedback causes it to do something it DOESN'T NEED TO DO ANYMORE !!!
Relax.... your Vision doesn't need your input - and doesn't react to it anyway - in any 'real world time' - you are ALWAYS going to be behind the action - and will actually CAUSE bad stuff to happen.
Sorry - this is about as technical as I want to get. I know you Physicists out there can fill in the numbers.
Don't fight it
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Don that 'splains it just fine... |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 172
Prescott, Az | I'm gonna take my Vision here!
http://www.wimp.com/scarytrail/ |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=900&star...
The above link will explain to you, how well it does on the dirt in the middle of the median at 60 plus, jumping, slipping and sliding, back into traffic. |
|
| |
Are Visions affraid of the dirt?
