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Tourer
Posts: 466
Grand Cane, LA | Just came back from a 5000 mile trip from Louisiana to Oregon and back. I got into this weird wobble everytime I would get within 50 yards of a big rig up until I would get out of the "air wash" from the truck. I tried upping the rear air shock pressure which seemed to help some but never fully got out of it. Has anyone else here had this problem and did you ever get out of it and how? I 've read some of the other posts and can't find a post that sounds similar. And no it's not the riding style like some have suggested because I had 2 other riders ride my bike and they experienced the same thing. It's almost like the front end is lifting up slightly when it gets into the "dirty air". |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | Im never behind a big truck long enough to notice. |
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Tourer
Posts: 466
Grand Cane, LA | Hey cjnoho, came by your way on my trip. Did the tourist thing and even rode down Mulholland drive by accident. I try not to stay behind the trucks either but I was hitting the wind thing before I even got to them. Just got plain annoying after a while. I met up with another Vision rider while on the way to Vegas. His name was Mike Siscarro (hope I spelled that right). He suggested about upping the air to the rear shock. We rode together for a while and I noticed his bike never did it. We even looked over both bikes and couldn't see any difference. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 725
Reno County, KS | There are a few postings on this. The only way to answer is that this is part of riding behind another vehicle. You are not going to be able to eliminate this phenomina while traveling behind another vehicle. 18 wheelers are larger; therefore, more noticable. What you're feeling is the the collapse of the vacuum created by the vehicle in front of you. There is only ONE thing that I have found that does help. Relax! Loosen up on the steering and concentrate more on the distance between you and the truck ahead. I know it's counter-intuitive but it is going to avoid another more dangerous situation where you are paying more attention the the bike swaying than you are the vehicle in front of you stopping. Once I'm in that position, I start looking for ways to get around the truck ahead of me. I start timing the passing such that I minimize "trailing" the truck. I do this to avoid eating road debris and busting/chipping windshield. Applies to the bike and to my truck. Also, stay OFF trucks a$$e$ that lack mudflaps. Goes without saying once you've done it a few times. They're supposed to have them but then there is always the occasional farmer's truck out there.
Edited by bigwill5150 2009-08-19 2:56 AM
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Cruiser
Posts: 177
| Tinker i had the same issue this past weekend. But mine never did it till i put the tour pack on. This weekend was the first time it's been on eccept to bring it home from the dealer. I personally thought that large boats on trailers were worse than the big rigs. |
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Tourer
Posts: 353
| bigwill5150 - 2009-08-18 11:54 PM
There is only ONE thing that I have found that does help. Relax! Loosen up on the steering and concentrate more on the distance between you and the truck ahead.
Great advice! First time behind a rig for me was un-nerving, the tighter I held the handlebars, the worse it got......... I don't even notice it anymore. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | some of us have shared the same experiences with the vision coming off other bikes. in that regards it does not surprise me when someone rides your bike who is not an avid vision pilot experiences the same thing.
however, in the scheme of things i want to err the side of caution and suggest you check the mechanical aspect of your bike. fork adjustment, that is, are they at the right height in the clamps; tire pressure, bearing play in the axle and the steering. if all is well there, do as i have done and that is intentionally ride in truck wash to become accustom to the feel. riding around trucks do not bother me except for two reasons, 1) i'm afraid they won't see me, 2) a tire would blow at the most unopportune time.
So, i'm ever vigilent when i go through my training and do it only when i have a reasonable room for escape. i might only do this a mile or two at a time, but it has helped extremely when getting blown away by trucks on the highway or getting trapped behind one and beside one. that is a lot of fun as if they both blow a gator i'm toast.
but it also has built a confidence not to be intimidated by the behemoths of the highway and i can even do a no hander while passing.
Edited by varyder 2009-08-19 7:15 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 466
Grand Cane, LA | mgoblue, that's pretty much the same scenario as mine. I have been riding it without the tour pack and it has never done it, but I put the pack on for the trip and that's when it started. Mine does it especially bad around car haulers. A friend of mine suggested I might try going to a heavier weight fork oil. He says he has seen this before on other bikes when the front forks are actually too soft on dampening and they want to compress and release when the air pressure around the bike changes rapidly.
varyder, one of the other guys who I let ride my bike was a Vision rider and he said his has never done what mine is doing. You said something about clamp height, what is the correct clamp height and is it listed in the service manual? Mine are all the way at the top of the fork tubes the reason why I ask. I know what it's like to have a big rig blow a tire right beside me. It actually threw a piece of retread under my meanstreak and punctured my rear tire leaving me stranded on the side of the road. Personally I think they need to outlaw retreads.
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | i'm with you on the retreads. my dad being a trucker for many years refused to run retread unless it was a certain process, I'm not sure what that was but it had a better bonding. he spent a lot on tires being a million-miler a few times. glad you survived your ordeal with no more than a flatten shoe.
i was concerned that the forks might not be even, the book calls for the actual top, not the cover, to be even with the top clamp. i thought maybe if they were uneven it would compound the issue. i can also see the trunk affect playing in, but zipping down the highway on two wheels has its own challenge to begin with. anomalies such as this is more pronounced to some than others.
with that said, i would still check the other mechanics at least once over. as for the other vision rider i would still have to ask if he has rode his vision in exactly the same circumstance and road and his not feel that way. I'm picky like that in asking questions, I guess it's the columbo, or dumbo in me.
now you're going to make me ride up on trucks on the way home to see if mine does it. also, notice something about the vision not found on other bikes except maybe a bmw. the vision is designed to tunnel the air through the fairing and down the side, to me giving greater stability. gold wings and the such are really an air dam of sorts causing a more resistance and wandering in the track. some might disagree but that has been my observation. with the air going through the vision and the channeling of the wind off a truck may create a lift feel. i would even contend that the tipovers, front and rear act as a wing of sorts. put some 'flubber' with that and you'd have a flying vision. in fact someone made a corny video with visions flying around, maybe that is where the idea came from...
Edited by varyder 2009-08-19 12:15 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 466
Grand Cane, LA | varyder, I'm with you on the columbo thing. I tend to do the same thing. Just a matter of wanting to know all the facts. The other Vision rider has ridden his bike over 40,000 miles. His was an '08 just like mine. I couldn't believe how good his bike still looked after that many miles so I would have to say he was a seasoned rider. That's funny about the flying vision video, I'll have to find that one and watch it. Well, if I find out anything on how to fix mine, I will definitely post the results. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | atvtinker - 2009-08-19 9:25 AM
.................Personally I think they need to outlaw retreads.
Amen brother!
I learned my lesson about the danger of following too closely behind tractor trailers about 30 years ago; up until that night I was one of those fools who thought that drafting a big rig was a good idea.
I was blowing east through Nevada about 1 AM headed towards Salt Lake at close to 90 mph when the truck in front of me veered onto the soft shoulder blowing one of his right rear tires in the process. The tread separated as one large piece which came straight back towards me.
The closing speed between me and the tire was probably approaching 160 or so, and as we converged it was just about chin high.
I ducked down and the lowest part of the tire carcass hit my windshield and whacked me on the head as it flipped end over end into the night. It also left a skid mark on the top of my helmet as a not so gentle reminder for me to smarten up as it passed.
We wont talk about the rhetorical skid mark in my drawers or how many miles it took for my heart rate to return to normal. I was (and am) just plain lucky to be alive and that my friends is a fact!
As to the wobble part for Vision riding... I'm +1 on the relax part; we impart too much handle bar input from our bodies getting pushed around by the turbulence. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | TP that is an incredible story and just goes to prove vigilence is number one when riding. i believe bikers have those who don't really pay attention, but bikers as a whole pay more attention to their surroundings than anyone else on the highway. your story proves why, our life depends on it. |
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Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | Interesting. I draft trucks and always have, especially at night, but I guess I do a few things that not everyone is aware of. There are usually two draft zones, and I can find the one farthest away from the truck fairly easily. Plenty of maneuver room between me and the truck, the driver can see me as I'm not in the middle, and not being in the middle also adds to the get-outa-da-way factor if needed. Also I actually find the best spot is off the rear corner in the adjacent lane. I do this most as it gives me the benefit of less turbulence, some additional protection and I'm not behind the truck.
Why bother?? Well for me it's just easier at night on unfamiliar highways. The "safe" thing would be to pull off and check into a hotel, but sometimes that's just not an option. My goal is that the deer that jumps out, will jump out in front of the truck, not me. Having spent most of my riding in the Northeast, Mid-Atlantic (read MD and PA) and Philippines, I've had my share of big hoofed creatures stepping out in front of me. I've come close enough to smack a deer on the nose with my hand on the Blue Ridge Parkway once (it just needed to be done).
As far as the wobble... as mentioned above, our bodies are our own worst enemies when it comes to wobble. I had a naked sportbike for awhile and just couldn't deal with it. Too much upper body to run without a windshield. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | Miles:
Thats exactly what I thought. Unfamiliar road , use the extra lighting, stay back far enough that the driver could see me in his rearview, smoother ride , its late, I'm tired and can use the break from the wind.
Its amazing how quickly that "safe following distance" disappears when a 40plus pound piece of rubber slingshots at your head. My guess is that I was overdriving my 1970's lighting by a good margin and relying on a young man's reflexes. When that tire came out of the dust cloud created by the trailer dropping off the shoulder it was already so close that evasive maneuvers were not in the cards.
I will admit that it might be quite possible that I was so fascinated with the object of my own destruction that doing anything other than ducking and hanging on was impossible.
But I have done everything I can to avoid following a big rig ever since. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 247
| Have had this "wobble" issue since i bought the bike until I changed the windshield to the 2" over victory windshield. It is very unnerving and relaxng the grip never helped. I thought originally that the wobble was due to the very low center of gravity needed to make the tip over protection effective. i.e. that the top was free to move and the pivot point was the tire patch on the road. Not sure why changig the windshield affected this but it seems to have helped with that particular issue. Still get blown around too much.
i'm with Miles on the rear corner but I don't draft them I just use that point to know when to begin my pass. I usually wait there, if i have to, until the time is right and then power through until I am just next to the cab and then give it a little more throttle to get through the inevitable air being pushed off the front of the truck. |
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Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | Tarpits. I agree with you 100%... I still do it... but I agree it is not the safest thing I do. Then again... if I'm out in the open and a deer jumps right into my path... which I think is a higher odds... I'm screwed anyway. I choose, on occasion, to take the lesser of two bad choices. I did have a close call once. It would have been funny if I failed to stop.. and I'll explain. I was in the Philippines and was trying to get around a Victory Liner. A V-Liner is a big'ol heavy iron bus. Google Victory Liner Philippines and look at the pictures. Anyway, I was trying to pass one. Semi-paved road, pot holes, middle of the night... and there was always traffic coming the other way. Finally I decided at his next stop, I'm punching it before he gets the doors open so I'll be around him before pedestrians can get in the way, and they'll hear me anyway (Kawasaki Z2b with straight pipes that ended at the foot pegs)..
All was fine with this plan except the stop I chose. He stopped... I pulled out... another bus was coming but I had time to get past the stopped bus.... I did... I pulled back into my lane..... just to find headlight lighting up a water buffalo's arse!!!!! That's why the V-Liner stopped.... They call'em Carabao in the Philippines, but they are big, round, kinda friendly fun beasts, weighing in at about 2000 lbs. The newspaper headline flashed before my eyes... "Sailor dies while trying to pack a 500lb motorcycle inside a Carabao's arse..." Not a pretty sight... I managed to stop... just barely... but I never passed a stopped bus at night again.
As far as passing trucks... I pull out and get into the spot off the rear of the trailor and blink my headlight. If I get a signal, I pass, otherwise I don't.. usually. Trucks at highway speed often have to pass slower traffic in front of them. As far as I'm concerned, everything I own, including the bike I'm riding was the responsibility of a truck driver at one time. He or she gets to let me know when it's ok for me to pass. I do the same in a car. I cannot recall EVER having a truck NOT respond by either blinking his lights that it's ok, or putting on his turn signal that he needs the lane. I almost always get a blink after I have passed as well. Maybe truckers today are just humoring me and think I'm an idiot... but it's how I was taught to drive on the highway.. and it hasn't let me down yet. No need to mess with a system that works.
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Cruiser
Posts: 247
| Thanks for the tip for flashing the lights. coming off a harley i really appreciate the loud horn on the Vison. I make liberal use of it with cars, especially if i think they are not paying attention when i am approaching to pass. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| Just my 2 cents worth;
The reason the Vision will exhibit wobble while behind large vehicles with the trunk on versus with the trunk off is simply due to the way the turbulence of the air is pushing sideways on the trunk, therefore when there is no trunk there is no wobble due to the air turbulence. I've ridden just about all the primary players in the luxury touring motorcycle market with the exception of the BMW K1200LT and I have never seen such behavior before, my only educated guess is that it is due to the Vision trunk being mounted higher and further behind the rear axle than on the other motorcycles and this gives it additional leverage when subjected to sideways forces due to turbulent air. If you don't believe me just look at a side picture of the Vision Tour, Goldwing, Ultra Classic, and Venture and compare the trunk position in relation to the rear axle. It kinda like the tail wagging the dog! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 725
Reno County, KS | varyder - 2009-08-19 6:12 AM
i want to err the side of caution and suggest you check the mechanical aspect of your bike.
+1
Especially when you just bought the bike. Your dealership should be concerned with any feedback they get from a freshly set-up bike.
Something I've forgotten is tire pressure. It's surprisingly easy to over inflate your tires. I actually run three lbs. lower than advertised spec because of the dirt roads and rough rural highway. This is 1 lb shy (within 10%) and not going to be recommended. It's not recommended for a lot of reasons including MPG but it does help me. I deal with a lot truck traffic out here in busy one lane highways. I have a hard time slowing down because I got used to having multiple lanes to get around the "slow pokes". There isn't exactly a "scenic route" out here, so it's not as if I'm going to enjoy an extra stretch of asphalt to my desitination unless it's over a couple hundred miles away. LOL Remembering that truckers have their livelyhood to contend with, I back off them and end up waiting it out in their "wash" until I can pass. BTW, there's nothing more rewarding than getting around a "wet" cattle truck trailer. I wonder why I love full fairing bikes.... |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | ok, i rode behind big trucks, and around them just to see if i could feel a "wobble". I did not, but what i did feel was the normal buffetting that would be encountered in such turbulence. i would expect a wobble to be felt in the suspension and be unpredictive and out of tune with the buffetting. however, all movement that i felt came from the buffet reaction from the wind.
i have no clue if this makes sense to anyone else, but if i was to feel a "wobble" it would have to be some loose in the suspension and not in tune with the buffetting.
hmmm buffetting, is the same as a way of selecting entre's? I was getting hungry as I typed this and the thought came to mind that buffet surfing ought to be an olympic event, which i could get a gold medal and heartburn for... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 247
| thanks once again to varyder for leittng those of us who felt we had an issue know that once again we did not have an issue. i can sleep better tonight. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | exharleyrider what's the issue? if yours feels normal to you and everybody else as well, and mine doesn't i would like to explore it just a little more to make things better. that is all the point i was making sir. but it does make me feel better that you're going to sleep better tonight though. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | bigwill5150 - 2009-08-20 12:41 AM
...... BTW, there's nothing more rewarding than getting around a "wet" cattle truck trailer. I wonder why I love full fairing bikes....
Wobble in these cases being caused by the rider beginning to lose consciousness as oxygen deprivation sets in.
Same effect when stuck behind slow moving "mushroom" trucks in eastern PA or driving past feed lots. I remember one driving through (yes it was on both sides of the highway) in particular on I-40/US66 in west Texas that seemed to be the size of Maryland, and then, there are THE FLIES!
"The Horror, the Horror!" |
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Tourer
Posts: 466
Grand Cane, LA | Tarpitts99, I just drove past those same feedlots on my trip. And yes the smell is enough to take your breath away.
varyder, tried riding today with little or no grip on the handlebars and it still has the "wobble effect". It is definitely coming from the front end somehow but I can't find anything loose. Tried axle, forks and fork bearing and etc. but couldn't find anything. I'm having a tendency to lean to my friends suggestion about changing the fork oil to something heavier because it is really easy to compress the front forks the first inch or so before getting any resistance. I wonder could the fork oil have gone bad if the bike was sitting on the showroom floor for so long before I bought the bike. I bought the bike new 4 months ago, but it was an '08 that the dealer had since when that model year first came out. It had only 2 miles on the odometer so I know it hadn't been rode. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 619
Southeast Iowa | Going back to the original post
"I got into this weird wobble every time I would get within 50 yards of a big rig up until I would get out of the "air wash" from the truck.
I hate to say it but I think the fork oil is probably fine. I think what you feel is what I feel when I ride in the wake of a big truck. When the wind comes across the bow of the Vision she has a tendency to move around a little bit. My bike did it when it was new and continues to do it today. The problem is less today because it no longer scares the shit out of me and I have learned to relax my grip on the handle bars. |
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Wobble while behind Big trucks
