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Tourer
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East TN | This is NOT AN OIL DEBATE question, I AM going to change to Mobil 1 oil when I hit 2500 miles, my question is; Should I run Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W40 or Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50????
I am leaning towards the 10W40 as it has better cold temp properties....What do you think???
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Visionary
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San Antonio, TX | joe schmoe,
Here is some new data that was released on June of 2009 on motorcycle oils. I found it to be an interesting read.
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/G-2156.pdf
It is NOT an endorsement of any oil because you guys know.....I run Bertolli Extra Lite, Extra Virgin, Olive Oil in my Vision!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fak_RmAp5M |
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Cruiser
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| I have use Amsoil since 2000. I have read some things about Mobil 1 not having something in it that Vics need. Don't know what it is. Use what works for you is my motto. |
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Tourer
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East TN | Thanks for the link ot the white paper GREAT READ!!!
As I read the White paper it appears that the 20W50 woudl be a poor choice based on Shear and heat Viscosity....But the Racing 4T 10W40 outperforms most if not ALL of the Victory oil in all categories of the tests done.... |
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Visionary
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Interesting. I had not read the latest version of this, and do not find the results very surprising. Of course Amsoil would come in first since it is their study. After that I see that Vic oil came in third, but was edged out for reasons that I do not place strong values on. Shear, viscosity, zinc content and wear, and temp control are the big factors. Based on those factors Vic oil moves further up the scale. Also of some importance is the fact that NO TEST MACHINE used matched Victory's configuration of Air\oil cooled AND single unit case structure. So basiccally the testing shows that Vic oil is the stuff to use based on the ratings, and the fact that clutch failure with the Vic oil is pretty much unheard of except for long term wear. |
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East TN | kevinx - 2009-08-07 9:45 AM Interesting. I had not read the latest version of this, and do not find the results very surprising. Of course Amsoil would come in first since it is their study. After that I see that Vic oil came in third, but was edged out for reasons that I do not place strong values on. Shear, viscosity, zinc content and wear, and temp control are the big factors. Based on those factors Vic oil moves further up the scale. Also of some importance is the fact that NO TEST MACHINE used matched Victory's configuration of Air\oil cooled AND single unit case structure. So basiccally the testing shows that Vic oil is the stuff to use based on the ratings, and the fact that clutch failure with the Vic oil is pretty much unheard of except for long term wear.
Very good point KevinX....Didn't think about the overall confgiuration issue...Sopmething to think about. I was impressed at how well Vic oil did rate in the tests....Not like the Harley stuff in the 20W50 study. (Private labeled oil that is)
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New Bohemia, VA | yeah joe, I'd stay at the 10w-40 range. |
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Cruiser
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Newberry, Mi. | Just keep in mind that the two most important characteristics of oil are Viscosity eg. 10w40, and the condition, or cleanliness, of the oil.
All other aspects can be debated, but as long as you use the recommended viscosity and perform the necessary oil and filter changes, you'll be providing what your engine needs.
Personally, I've found a semi-synthetic blend better serves both engine lubricating/cooling duties as well as providing the correct frictional properties for the clutch plates.
I would be far more interested in oil tests that are performed on our specific application. On an air/oil cooled V-twin engine as well as on the frictional properties for the engagement/disengagement of the clutch.
The tests aren't based on this application, nor do they take into account that the oil in a Victory is also the transmission fluid which is exposed to much more shearing force between the gears of the transmission.
Although I'm not familiar with the racing oil you mention, I'd be very cautious until you find out the complete formula. It may not include the necessary detergents and other additives normally found in consumer oils. Racing engines are often rebuilt after racing so all of the normal compounds may not be present in racing oil.
Racing machines and street machines are two different things with different purposes. Sometimes, what is used on a race bike can be used on a street bike, but I really recommend you take a much closer look at the formula.
Edited by Rob41 2009-08-07 9:33 AM
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Tourer
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East TN | Rob41 - 2009-08-07 10:19 AM I'd be very cautious until you find out the complete formula. It may not include the necessary detergents and other additives normally found in consumer oils. Racing engines are often rebuilt after racing so all of the normal compounds may not be present in racing oil. Racing machines and street machines are two different things with different purposes. Sometimes, what is used on a race bike can be used on a street bike, but I really recommend you take a much closer look at the formula. It is just Mobil 1 calling it racing oil, it is designed for "rice burners" and meets the JASO MA rating for wet clutch applications.... From the specs on Mobil's web site and the test that Amsoil did I am going to try it and se how it does on my next oil change...Just wasn't sure when I posted which way to go on viscosity...after the replys and reading the Amsoil test I will use the 10W40 and see. I can always change back after a few thousand miles... I jsut had GREAT improvement with my Harley when I switched from dino oil to Synthetic...We'll see |
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Newberry, Mi. | Cool, Let us know how it works out and how the clutch feels. |
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Pittsburgh, PA | did you read in that oil study that there was an area where the Vic oil did NOT to well... look it over carefully. I used the vic oil. i liked how i was able to get a kit for my vision. but as soon as 1000 miles my shifting was getting notchy and the transmission was noisey. also this is just something i noticed while using the vic oil (20w40). when i went to vic oil to amsoil back to vic oil then to amsoil. i noticed one thing aside from the shifting. The amsoil rain about 15F cooler. i base this only on my vic oil temp dip stick. Im not saying this is a plus to this. im just stating what i seen. I want to like the vic oil, but the shifting is such a big difference between the 2 oils that i end going back to amsoil. My vic dealer sales amsoil and believe it or not its the same price for me to get the amsoil than the vic oil change kit. and this includes the filter and washer i need.
keep in mind the kit comes with 6 qts. our bikes use 4.5 so you only need to purchase 5 qts... |
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Visionary
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| I've run the Vic oil, the Amsoil, and two different mobil1 oils an here are my observations (If you like what your running, great these are just my observations).
The Vic oil is shot at around 2000-2300 miles as the shifting becomes noticeably notchy (harder to shift). The Amsoil quiets the motor, extends oil change interval (based on the notchy feel) BUT (and this is a BIG but) it does make the clutch slip. It is a very mild slip but you'll notice a difference in clutch engagement as soon as you put something else in the motor. The 10-40 Mobil lasted about the same as the Vic oil, no noticeable improvement over the Vic oil I could tell via seat of the pants observations. The 20-50 Mobil is what I currently have in the bike and again I see no difference between it and the Vic oil.
I plan to try the shell Rotella synthetic when I change oil next week, but expect much the same results. The bottom line for me is run whatever you feel is a good choice "factoring in price, quality and availablity."
All the aforementioned oils are good oils with good test results and if you are replacing frequently it really isn't a factor.
Now I KNOW someone is going to question the Amsoil slipping statement BUT I will point out that I also argued this point with KevinX a few months back only to find myself eating crow more recently. On my bike it was NOT a "significant" slip, in fact most riders probably wouldn't even notice. None the less there was slipping taking place as noted by the significant engagement improvements when I switched to a different oil.
If I didn't need to go so far to get oil I would likely just run the Vic oil as it appears to run as well as anything else. |
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Arkainzeye - 2009-08-08 5:36 AM
did you read in that oil study that there was an area where the Vic oil did NOT to well...
You need to read the verbage as well as looking at the charts. I every case it explaines that some oils perform poorly in a certain area based on design criteria. In those criteria a manufacturer looks to a different side of the comprimise in a specific performance. Had the test been done in favor of the manufacturers thinking; that oil would have come out on top, and the others would show lower. Remember this test was done for a specific manufacturer, and while I belive the tests were not biased themselves. The tests were chosen to show that makers oil in the best light. The few areas where the Vic oil did not score well are easily explained by this. All except the three bearing test. I personally do not see how the Vic oil scored so low in that test. Being one of the highest zinc concentrates, and showing so well in the gear wear. Would seem to conflict with the results.
I also find it VERY interesting thatr the Vic oil was NOT SHOWN in the clutch stiction testing |
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LaPorte,Tx. | Teach, which viscocity Amsoil did you put in your bike during the test? |
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New Bohemia, VA | joe schmoe - 2009-08-07 8:11 AM
This is NOT AN OIL DEBATE question, I AM going to change to Mobil 1 oil when I hit 2500 miles, my question is; Should I run Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W40 or Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50????
I am leaning towards the 10W40 as it has better cold temp properties....What do you think???
I no longer drink alcohol, at all. But back in the day the running joke was, let's go and have "just one" of course, 5 or 6 later we'd be joking about the "just one" comment.
Well, that applies to oil as well. If you make a statement or ask a question concerning oil, oil filters, or nitrogen gas for the HID, you're going to get a debate...expect it...
I'm having some of that greek virgin salad oil shipped in a 55 gallon drum that radioteach suggested. I should be set for the next 3 year or so... and using ST filters at 2.67, I'll save me some dough to use to chrome up like VaParodox. |
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So Cal | I used victory oil this time. I was at the dealer picking up other parts and figured, what the hell. |
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Visionary
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| VisionTex, I've used both the 20-50 (which was my dealers pref/recommendation) and the 10-40 when the dealer was out of the 20-50. I've done 4 oil changes with 20-50 and two changes with 10-40 in Amsoil.
On the mobil1 I've done two with the 10-40 and this last one was the 20-50.
I've done 2 changes with the Vic oil when I initially bought the bike.
As stated earlier the Amsoil did make the motor run a little quieter and it ran a little cooler I "believe" with the Amsoil (seat of the pants observtions). A couple times while running the amsoil I found myself thinking the clutch wasn't making solid engagement BUT you know how you sometimes second guess yourself. If I shifter up tall and throttled hard it did pull so I wrote it off as just in my head/butt. The only reason I made the connection was I was forced to switch to the mobil as I needed an oil change and it was the only thing available. As soon as I hopped on the bike after the change I could feel the the stronger engagement and pull, it was quite noticeable.
Hope this answers your question.
For the record I'm not promoting anyone changing oils. If you are happy with what you are running great, these are just my observations.
On a similar note and please do NOT ask me how a filter can make this difference, BUT if I run the Bosch oil filter the bike will shift smoother longer than what it will on the vic filter. Again this was a pure off chance observation but I've tested it through using the same oils but with the 2 different filters and the shifting remains smoother for longer using the Bosch filter. I've looked into the construction of both filters and there doesn't appear to be anything between the two that should account for this so I'm puzzled. If you have any suggestions I'd love to hear them..... T |
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Teach - 2009-08-08 3:37 PM
I've looked into the construction of both filters and there doesn't appear to be anything between the two that should account for this so I'm puzzled. If you have any suggestions I'd love to hear them..... T
Pressure drop. The lower the pressure drop the less likely you are to have foaming as the additive package wears out. The K&P filter from Conquest has the lowest pressure drop, and I have heard from others reports of better shifting longer with those filters |
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| kevinx, thanks for the answer. I suspected it was something along that line but really had no idea how to justify the assertion. In any case I'm not nuts, lol...... Thanks..... T |
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San Antonio, TX | Kevin,
I agree with you that they should have tested Victory Oil for Wet-Clutch Compatibility. Funny, they had enough time and money to rest all of the oils in the other tests. That is one of the most important things about Vic oil.
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Teach - 2009-08-08 4:41 PM
In any case I'm not nuts, lol...... Thanks..... T
Debatable |
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Pittsburgh, PA | see ive gone back and forth with the amsoil and the vic oil. i only did this because the amsoil was harder to get. i never noticed a difference in how the clutch engaged. but i Did notice i difference in how the transmission shifted! Thats for sure! |
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Visionary
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| Kevinx, so I've been told, lmao.....
Ark, I didn't notice anything negative at first but as the bike has accumulated more miles I found myself getting that little thought in my head as I was riding (is it slipping? thought) more and more frequent. When I finally swapped oils it became obvious that it was slipping.
Now mind you it is not the "oh my god my clutch is gone" type slip, just a very vague feel when you get on it like its taking some time to get rev'd up. As stated earlier it was not obvious, UNTIL I changed oil. It might be important for me to admit I have always been a bit skeptical about the "Amsoil is all that and a bag of chips claims." So when I tried it I was quite pleased with the smooth shifting, quiet running and lower heat levels (seat of the pants observations). You can imagine my disappointment when I realized the clutch was slipping. Thats ok though, I'll find something else that works and that I like.... just trial and error.
Now the Mobil1 is convenient for me to acquire as is the Shell Rotella. So my thoughts are to try the Shell since I've heard good things and it is quite a bit cheaper than the Mobil1. I'll post my findings after I've given it a good few thousand miles across the road, but my thoughts are it is going to run similar to the other synthetics in the Vision. With that said 2500 mile oil changes really invalidate any oil debates BUT knowing I have a synthetic in the cases gives me a little more confidence if I'm on the road and don't get to changing at that 2500 mark. |
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So Cal | Victory may be doing well but not well enough to own their own oil co. SOMEONE is making their oil for them. Castrol is the only MC oil I can find in 20w-40. Im not saying they are the ones, Im just saying... With 2500 mile change intervals, whatever you use really dosent have a chance to get that dirty. Dont forget this is not only an air cooled motor but an oil cooled one also. I think thats why the more frequent changes. Clean oil, no matter who makes it, is amazing stuff. Next time your hands get greasy and dirty try a little clean oil before soap and water.
All have to meet an SAE standard. You'll have a hard time finding one that doesnt in the US. As long as its MC specific, due to the wet clutch, all should work well. |
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | cjnoho - 2009-08-08 9:01 PM
Victory may be doing well but not well enough to own their own oil co. SOMEONE is making their oil for them. .
All Polaris oils including Victory are made by a company called Lube Tech. This is the very same company that makes Mobile1 synthetic |
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Oil Question
