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Iron Butt
Posts: 1117
Northeast Ohio | So I go to my dealer to buy a few things and talked to the mechanic about the exhaust popping and a few other things. He tells me he can fix the popping in 5 minutes...
So I finish paying for my stuff and head down to the shop. The mechanic explains to me that the problem isn't with the exhaust system leaking, but rather the IAC (Idle Air Control) valve. He says a quick disconnect and adjustment of the idle will fix it up. I remember reading a post where someone cleaned theirs and it helped out, but disconnecting it?
So here is what I observed on the ride home and riding this weekend:
1. There is no more nasty pop or deceleration popcorn sound. I did have two, only two, slight pops that sounded more like a puff. I normally would have had about 40 really bad gun shot pops for the same amount of riding. He did tell me that it will never be 100% gone, but darn close.
2. Cold fast idle (No more) - from what I can tell, the IAC really plays a part in this. Normally, the bike would cold idle to about 1300 rpms and taper to 900-1000 after it warmed up a bit. Starting the bike cold now, it idles steady at 900-1000 rpms. Even though this sounds bad, I felt no ill effects from this. I am curious what could come from this (fouled plugs, etc).
3. Sluggishness between shifts - Occasionally I would get these. Completely gone now.
Overall the bike feels much more responsive than before.
My mechanic said he would do this for anyone that was interested in coming into the shop. If you are around Northeast Ohio, shoot me a PM and I'll get you the info.
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Cruiser
Posts: 244
Fargo, ND | So does he just disconnect the AIC to adjust the cold idle speed and then reconnect it, or does he leave it disconnected? |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | im curious to see how the bike started on a colder 40F day.. with No fast idle..? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1117
Northeast Ohio | From what he told me, it is disconnected. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 8
northeast ohio | The IAC is still connected in regards to the electronics portion. It does work well on cold starts on a cold day. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 226
on the edge of Los Angeles | I wonder if this is a Polaris / Victory repair or if its an independent work around that another tech has discovered on his own. Either way I would hope Kevinx could comment on it..
I have S1 L2 pipes and flash and do deal with all issues that have been posted before. I know its lean and would hope to find a fix that did not require more add on's. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | I can't count how many times I have said the problem is in the IAC control. On the bar hopper bikes I plug the intake, and set the idle pretty regularly, but I had issues with doing it to a Vision that rode all over the country. Irregular idle, and stalling problems caused me to undo the modification |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I was waiting for your reply KevinX and will move to my next step. What I understand you to say that the IAC "mod" for a lack of a better term, is not necessarily a viable alternative, is that correct?
If you've not read my other post about my exhaust leak fix, when I pulled the pipes there were imperfections on the mate end of the pipes to the port. I replaced the gaskets, cleaned up the ends with emorory until they were smooth and fixed the bent joint at the left cross over. If the IAC is the culprit, then my bike is running as perfect as it is going to get until something is done about that. I've tightened the exhaust before and it vastly improved the performance. It is now running better than before, with only ONE pop and that is when I left the house coming to the stop sigh that is about 1/8 of a mile down the road. The rest of the way, even in stop and go traffic there was no issues at at all, finally!
I pulled off the IAC cover and poked my fingers in there a few times, but I don't think that had anything to do with it running better, but if so, I'll do that everytime I ride as part of my pre-ride checks.
Edited by varyder 2009-06-23 7:23 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1117
Northeast Ohio | My idle is rock solid and hasn't stalled at all, yet. I wish Polaris would just fix it right, but until they do, mine is staying the way it is. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | ScoreBo - 2009-06-23 8:35 AM
My idle is rock solid and hasn't stalled at all, yet. I wish Polaris would just fix it right, but until they do, mine is staying the way it is.
Don't get me wrong. I hope that the Vision I tried it on was only a fluke, and you can happily ride all over the country with no issues. If however you find yourself in a different climate, and you start to expieriance problems; then you know what to do. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 244
Fargo, ND | Do you have a simple procedure for doing the mod, or is that something the dealer would have to do? |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 8
northeast ohio | the fix that ScoreBo has was a collaboration of trial and error with Victory engineers and our mechanics working together via phone for countless hours. However the engineers could not come out and say to do this to the bikes. (EPA) Polaris/Victory will not take credit for it bc they did'nt figure it out!! Our tech did. It has been working great for all the bikes we have done, and have even noticed some increased performance in particular to 2009 Jackpots with Swept system. If any are in Ohio area and would like to have this done please contact me. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1117
Northeast Ohio | Bill, you stalker. See you at bike night tomorrow at QSL. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | victorybill - 2009-06-23 9:25 PM
the fix that ScoreBo has was a collaboration of trial and error with Victory engineers and our mechanics working together via phone for countless hours. However the engineers could not come out and say to do this to the bikes. (EPA) Polaris/Victory will not take credit for it bc they did'nt figure it out!! Our tech did. It has been working great for all the bikes we have done, and have even noticed some increased performance in particular to 2009 Jackpots with Swept system. If any are in Ohio area and would like to have this done please contact me.
*LOL* May have taken countless hours to pry the info out of them, but both J.A., and Bob have known about this for better then a year. If you look on the VMC a guy with the screen name Cook06Vegas put up detailed instructions in like March of 08. This trick is nothing new, and has been done to all the closed loop Jap cruisers for a while now. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| hows it going Kevinx? still lovin my new improved vision. My pops have gone down a little since the install of the cams, but still like to show there head from time to time. I am gettin so use to it i am starting to like it. If it causes no problms i can put up with it for now until a good fix is found. Since I ride the bike all over: different temps, different elevations, etc etc i handle the occasional pops.
hope all is well. |
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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | I am really no expert on tuning but I worked in the auto field for a few years and saying that the IAC valve is the problem and eliminateing it to cure a running condition does not make sound sense. Just because it corrects for a particular condition does not make it correct. But ....... without the means to correct for it properly this half-arse remedy could be the only one at our disposal. My stock Vision does nothing abnormal running wise and that is why I am very hesitant to change anything that would put me on never ending path trying to get my bike running well. Been there with a Harley and don't want to go back. Victory could make available a 'KEY" like the Harley Race Tuner or the TTS but they are probably wise to not even go there. The people that can be effective tuning with those devices are few and far between. And the ones that can get it all right the first time are nearly non-existant. Dyno tuning is great for bragging rights but fact is we ride in the real world and how often do we operate at full throttle and for how long.
Sorry for the rant but the decel popping if not exhaust leaking is a decel post fuel enrichment issue amd could be addressed pretty quickly if we had the ability to look at and change parameters on the ECM. That said if we are talking standard S1/L1 or S1/L2 and nothing else the reprogram "FLASH" should not allow popping. Victory should step up if there is a large amount of problems.
Walt |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | I'm wondering if the idle adjustment has more to do with the cure? If I dont release the throttle all the way before shifting, no pop. If the motor wont idle with the IAC all the way in I could see a potential stall condition. Victory gives no base idle specs. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Maybe not everyone has seen my post, or maybe you just take me as a redneck in training. I refuse to fix my bike by pulling all the jerry rig stunts and claim I found a fix.
My Vision was popping from day one even when it was denied there ever was a problem. In fact my dealer told me that they never heard of it and they couldn't get mine to replicate the issue. Then months later they said every '08 did it.
I got tired of whining to them but found when I tightened the exhaust the condition lessened for a while. Well for the past several months I was suspecting the exhaust leak or a vacuum leak and finally I got to pull my header pipes last week and found them to be leaking because of imperfections. So I did the natural thing and used emorory cloth to smooth them and replaced by gaskets, fixed the exhaust leak on the left side of the crossover.
No more pop!
So if every '08 does it then every '08 has flawed header pipes.
Go ahead and keep screwing with your $24,000 bike and all the gizmo crap, or you can fix it in a good afternoon.
Peace out!
Edited by varyder 2009-06-25 8:07 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | varyder I have read your post, and don't figure you to be a redneck in training*LOL* I have also noted that you have stated that you do have some random pops; though greatly reduced. The thing that kills me is that the bikes are so hyper sensative to teeny-tiny leaks. If the hard\software was right then this would not be an issue. Cars have been closed loop since the early 80's; so it is not like they had to invent the wheel.
cjnoho
If you do not close the throttle you miss the injector momentery shut down, and the cranking open of the IAC in preperation of idle |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I'm certainly not an engineer, but I sure can jerry rig with the best. I appreciated all the suggestions from the dealers and from the wrenches here; s1L1/2, commanders, IAC jimmie, etc, etc. I've been in a twixt as to what the real problem is as none of those have proven to be a fix. I've trusted the engineers at Victory to test and get the dynamic of the bike correct.
I do not agree with my dealers of assessment that all '08 does it. I've been in the maintenance field, fixer type, for the better part of my life, and though I'm not always right, my principles of the issue is right. There is a leak, and I'm inclined to believe intake and exhaust. So instead of trying to tinker with the stuff to compensate and I've mentioned before that the tinkering is compensating, why not fix the problem and let the bike do it's own right thing.
It is refreshing to not have my bike to stall I'm retraining myself NOT to anticipate the popping and cutout since it is not happening anymore. If it does I'll be ready for it. I still get a very minor occassionally pop in the intake area so my next move is to fine those teeny tiny leaks that KevenX references.
Not to get to overly excited about this and say it is "the fix" I just know mine is fixed, save the now minor pops that are occassionally occuring, and those are when the bike is running hot, in stop and go traffic. So if you say it is not fixed, you weren't riding my bike before compared to now either, I felt like in town I had chitty-chitty bang-bang of Visions. Now I'm not nary afraid of a pack of H.O.G. pulling up next to me at a light cause I'll smoke 'em all.
One more thing, all this focus on jimmying the gizmo's took the focus off my real problem, as I'm sure it is with other folk. As a troubleshooter, you must eliminate the problem before you make any tweaks. I could tell countless story's of quick fixes that actually caused greater problems, when the actual problem was a very simple one to fix.
Peace out.
Edited by varyder 2009-06-26 7:06 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1117
Northeast Ohio | Chris,
The first thing I did, last year from Lloyd's recommendation, was to replace my header gaskets. When I did I and found a leak there with the factory metal gaskets. I have pics at home and my front was leaking pretty bad. I replaced them with different ones that Lloyd recommended. They are the softer woven metal ones and one would think they would seal better. Noto sure it made a difference at all.
The thing that I hate the most is the intake cough. I think you called it a pop in the intake. With Lloyd's intake plate you hear it quite well. I have not had one cough with the IAC disconnected.
With all this rambling, I just want it to stop. It is embarassing to be riding a bike as cool as a Vision sounding like a popcorn machine rolling down the street. Heaven forbid you are around other non-vic riders and it happens. The 'right' fix is for Polaris to identify the problem and make the fix. Whether is an ECU adjustment to the IAC, better sealing of the exhaust or a combination of both. It isn't right for ANY of us to come up with a fix for a $20,000+ motorcycle.
As I look back over the last year with the bike, the biggest improvement for me was the reflash that fixed the stalling. My pops are down 75% from where they were originally. I am certain this is all ECU work around the IAC since it showed such a noticeable improvement last year. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 64
Hot Springs Village, Arkansas | So you think it's the motor oil you're using...........:-) |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1117
Northeast Ohio | :-) Lord only knows, but it could be! ha ha ha |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Okay, found my vacuum leak, at least one of them, but I think I'm done with all the shinanigans and ready to see how things go from here.
Under the console, or big remote, where the radio display and buttons are is your airbox. On top of the airbox is an access panel that is fixed with 6 bolts. Rubber side goes down as the manual would say, but what a crappy job there. I pulled the panel off and look and only about 25% of the rubber material has an imprint, the rest looks as if it has never made contact with the airbox. Also, there is distinct evidences of pop flash out of the rear part directly above the intake ports. I would have taken pictures but it always proves that my best shots are of Big Foot or Loch Ness quality and it wouldn't prove anything.
So I clean all this up and get some silicon RTV and run a bead around for a better seal. I hesitant to say I found a cure because that will just disproves all the other "fixes" so I'll go happily and merrily along my way.
One thing I have noticed is this machine runs hot, at least 20 to 30 degrees according to the dipstick, not me, the thing that I use to check the oil. It is also running very lean as oppose to before when I had the leaks it was running much cooler and richer. My tail pipes doesn't even look like that there is any soot and I'm starting to actually see rust. So I'm going to clean them up and paint it flat black for oldtimes sake.
By the way, on the oil, I'm running Vic dino/syn blend and I'm using plugs from my dealer, so right now I'm 100% Vic.  |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1117
Northeast Ohio | Chris, that access panel would be replaced by Lloyd's intake plate. Just in case you wanted an extra 10HP. ;-)
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Exhaust Popping - IAC appears to be the problem
