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Tourer
Posts: 550
Tacoma, WA | I am curious, is anyone on this forum running a Car Tire out back on their Vision? I have one on my other bike, and am one tire away from putting one on my '08.-----Metalguy  |
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Tourer
Posts: 301
Buffalo Grove,Ill | Let me know how that goes for ya. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | Alright, metalcrafterguy, got a ? Why would you do this, I have read just about all of your posts, seen the infamous "rat", and still wonder?
I have to know the pros and cons to this. The only Pro I can think of is just the mileage aspect of it all. Will the compound be sticky enough when you lean to keep you planted. Seems like the compounds on a car tire would not support a stickier compound on the edges. |
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Tourer
Posts: 550
Tacoma, WA | I have done it on the rat, and it does indeed stick better than the M/C tire. Car tires do have softer compounds than M/C tires. Because our bikes don't have the lean angle of a sportbike, the footprint is larger than a M/C, even in corners. OR, maybe I do it because I am crazy, and want to do something, just to see for myself if it is worthwhile. I certainly do not reccomend it if a person is in any way apprehensive about trying something new. ------Metalguy |
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Tourer
Posts: 412
Fargo, ND |
I also ran one on my Kawasaki VN2000. It was a fine choice there and I'm just about ready to order one for my Vision.
Not to worry for the naysayers...as I have uped my life insurance, got good fire insurance on the bike and my will is up to date. I'm ready to go! :-)
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Tourer
Posts: 550
Tacoma, WA | When I first contemplated it, I asked an MSF instrutor that works in my shop what he thought...boy did I get an earful! That alone was enough for me to look into it more, and I found it is like discussing religeon or politics...LOTS of opinions. Only problem is, the ones that tell me it is dangerous have never even ridden a bike equipped. Those I have talked to that done it have really enjoy it! So really I am on a fact-finding mission.-----Metalguy |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | metalguy - 2009-05-20 10:52 PMWhen I first contemplated it, I asked an MSF instrutor that works in my shop what he thought...boy did I get an earful! That alone was enough for me to look into it more, and I found it is like discussing religeon or politics...LOTS of opinions. Only problem is, the ones that tell me it is dangerous have never even ridden a bike equipped. Those I have talked to that done it have really enjoy it! So really I am on a fact-finding mission.-----Metalguy OK MG, quit talkin'. get one and get to ridin'. I'm days away from ordering a new set of skins for the bike and if I could get 70K out of the rear tire, I'd be hooked up. This is my 4 tire (3d change) on the bike coming up in a year and a half. Got 42,800 on her now. The front is getting changed out to but it is ready NOW. Well, the cord ain't showin' yet so I'll run it a few more miles as long as it is dry. I'm stuck ridin' the highway as I'm always in a hurry and don't know why. It's either to the folks and to my granders and I want to get their quick and the twisties don't get me there quick. It's 90% on the I-roads here lately and I'd be willing to give it a shot if it don't kill it when I do hit the twisties. I'm sure there is a ton of rebuttals out there but last I checked I was all growed up.
Edited by varyder 2009-05-20 10:21 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 550
Tacoma, WA | I will put one on as soon as my testing on the rat is sufficient for me to still wanna. I just want to test that puppy out more, and in more conditions so I know I can trust it back there. I have only gone about 100 miles on the C/T and want a few thousand to be sure before putting one on my Vision. I am sure you unnerstand.----Metalguy |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Okay, thanks Metal Guy. I think the arguments are that it is not made for a motorcycle and therefore the sidewalls won't have the support that would give it the handling needed in the corners. There may not be any significant change in the straightways as in interstate driving except for mileage of the tire. It is not a popular choice for obvious reasons and I never see a dual application tire, but the few post I've read folks seem to enjoy them. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 271
Belding Michigan | OK my 2 cents worth is this I have seen car tires used on bikes mostly Gold Wings and they were sidecar rigs. A car will eat a set of wing tires in about 6000 miles so using a car tire made sense.
On a standard bike the lean angle of the bike in corners obivates the tire design as car tires are normally flatter acrossed the tread and have little if any rounding on the edges to provide the contact patch. That said i believe that everyone has the right to choose what they use.
I am anal about tires if I get the inkling that my tire has a problem it is gone. If i can see tread wear it is gone as I value my skin and like it right where it is not on the ground or the tarmac.
If I were sure that the control and the contact patch would remain constant and that I could get 40K out of tire hey buddy I would be all over that. But for me tire design is an art that has taken manufactures years to prefect and I will for now go with the flow and use MC tires on the MC.
Please however keep us posted on how the grand experiment goes I am always eager to learn just not willing to expend my skin in the learning. Archie |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | All respect for you comments and hope for hopes sake that there will be someone who has actually riden on the car tire on a m/c chime in with the experience. This topic comes up time and time and time again, not as much as an oil thread or ABS, but it does come up. For the most part it is the friend of a friend of a friend who had some good/bad experience. I think, not that I can speak for him, from Metal Guy's perspective he's going into this with a total open mind of the engineering of a car tire or a motorcycle tire, if he didn't I would question his desire to do so. If he didn't understand the dynamics and was a novice to motorcycles he is indeed flirting with diaster and doesn't know. I respond in regards of my curiousity and would indeed consider all factors before showing up to my motorcycle shop with a car tire and say "mount this please." I think the first thing I would notice is the crappy handling and the fight to lean which is what I recall reading. So then the real trade of is the handling ability. I think I also recall someone posting one time that there was very little difference, but I would beg to differ to the term "very little". Just as you pointed out that there is a reason a m/c tire is made the way it is. I noticed that I ate a lot of tire to and from Texas as I put on 1,600 miles straight up the whole time. The tire was literally flat in the middle, though still round on the edge. I had a lot of meat on the sides and would have opted to ride nothing but twisties for another 5k but it is difficult to do here. so hopefully someone will chime in that has done the experiment or we'll wait for Metal Guy. As for me, I'm cleaning out the "hanger" which is a small long shed, so I can pull the tires and exhaust off of mine to get new motorcyle tires and fix my popping once and for all. |
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Tourer
Posts: 394
Tucson, AZ | I ran two car tires on my 2000 Valkyrie and really liked the experience. If you go to the VRCC board there is a lot of information about running them. When I'm ready for one, that's the direction I'm going. My only question is what is the maximum width the "V" will handle? |
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Tourer
Posts: 394
Tucson, AZ | I think I need to explain my last post. I meant I ran two rear tires at different times, not a front and a rear.
Sorry about that. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | i ran a car tire on my vulcan 2000 for 3 seasons!! and the tire still looked NEW!! i even road with it on deals gap!!! breaking was insanely strong. a few things i didnt like about it was, coming to a stop light while slowing down.. the bike following the dents in the road. rain traction was great! it also requires more effort to lean in turns. not alot more. just more. the MAIN advantage was tire life.. i even got a nail in my car tire and just plugged it and road with that plug for a yr before i traded the bike in.. and it was very nice to NOT remove that rear wheel every year for a New tire.. the savings were great. but it didnt handle as well as a motorcycle tire. but at the sametime it NEVER stopped me from doing anything i could do with a MC tire.. would i do it on my Vision? probably not as the vision SO far as had alot better tire life than my vulcan |
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Cruiser
Posts: 110
| My Question is is the extra effor to get the bike to lean anything like riding a Vic Hammer with a 250 rear tire? This still throws me when I get off the vision and jump on the hammer or vice versa. |
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Tourer
Posts: 550
Tacoma, WA | So far, on the "rat" it has made minimal difference in handling. But there are differences I have noticed. I am only around the 150 mile mark on this tire due to other issues the rat has, but it DOES let you feel all the imperfections in the road, although it is rock steady over them...odd. It still sticks like glue in the corners, sweepers, onramps. Once I get a decent seat on it that is actually attached to the bike by more than gravity, I will do harder testing. One more thing I noticed, is the ride is actually smoother. Why, I dunno. When I used to go over potholes, be it a corner, or straight, I FELT them. Now, not so much. I feel them, but they are "cushioned". The feel of imperfections may just be because of how huge the contact patch is, compared to my M/C that I had.-------Metalguy
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/metalguy/IMG_2164.jpg[/IMG] |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | One answer I rarely see in a car tire thread is the make, model and size of tire So what is the tire you are currently using and do they make one that is sized to the Vision? |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | someone asked if the car tire was like a 250. i cant asnwer that for a vision. but my kaw had a 225/55-16 good year triple tread assruance tire.(boy was it great in RAIN!) but then i got ride of the car tire about bought wheels for the bike and went to a 250/40-18. that difference was, the 250 bike tire was easier to lean.. i know this is a apple to oranges as you are NOT getting a 225 car tire on a vision. lol that would look bad ass though.. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| MG, I toyed with this when I replaced my first tire but decided against. I had a bad shock bushing that caused some tire issues and the result ended up replacing it early. The important part is the replacement was due to the largely flat center which provided considerable resistance in corners. I figure if the bike tire flat spot resisted this much I didn't want to toy with the car tire. And yes I know the car tire sidewall flexes but I wasn't willing to gamble over a couple thousand miles more. Several friends run darkside tires and average is around 22k miles between replacement (about the same as front tire). |
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Tourer
Posts: 550
Tacoma, WA | Varyrider, the make, size of tire on the rat is a Douglas GT 195/60/R15. Now, this is an extremely wide tire for a Honda VY700. In fact, there is only about 3/32" crearance in the swingarm. It is THAT close. I had to machine a spacer, to ensure the tire was PERFECTLY centered. I also used this opportunity to balance the tire with 3 oz. of Dyna beads. I can say, they balance well. I was totally sceptical, but they work!-----Metalguy |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Thanks Metal Guy, that gives me a start what to look for. I've got my Vision Shack all ready and will probably start the shake down in mid-june to pull the tires, exhaust, belt and pulley. If I go Dark Side I'll do the dyna beads as well and I want to SuperMax my pulley as well (www.supermax.net). It'll be down for a while, in the middle of prime riding season, but wait, I ride all the time so there is not prime riding season. I've got 42,700 on the clock now and my belt looks perfect, but prudence says change it now. If I get 30k or more out of the car tire I'll stay dark side, if not, I'll stay with the E3. My guess is though I'll be thoroughly agreeable with a car tire, but have thought to do both, but getting a second rim and switching out when I do the long trips. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | as with someone else that asked about SIZES and make & models of the car tires being used. i am also very curious with WHO installed them for you.. around here motorcycle dealers with NOT install a car tire on a motorcycle for legal/insurance reasons.. So when i had my car tire installed on my vulcan 2000. i took the rear wheel to a mini indy dealer and he did it (off the books). i paid him cash. i was his test pilot. after a few months he did it to his own motorcycle! Honda valk.. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | My dealer said he'll do whatever I pay him to do. I forewarned him that I might go with the car tire but the more I think about it the more I can't bring myself to do it. I ask myself will it really be worth trading off even the slightest deviation of ride and handling for a few more miles on the bike without taking it down to change out the tire?
The one thing I like about the Vision is it seems whatever I'm thinking it does it. With the Wing, I had to fight it to do what I wanted it to do, with too many closer calls than I wanted. With the Vision, even with close calls I'm as cool as a cucumber. The only shake-up to date is when that lady ran the redlight a few weeks ago and almost broadsided me had I not dropped it at the last second. I don't want to trade out even the slightest degree of reaction time on the roads around here. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | See my dealers around he actually get pissed off about the idea of a car tire on a bike and try to use safety as a way to change your mind. The bottom line is, your taking money away from them. No more motorcycle tires and alot less Labor for all the tire changes you will NO longer need. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 154
Cabot Arkansas | I think the big heavy V8 powered Boss Hoss bikes used to come from the factory with a car tire on the rear.I have ridden a Valkerye with one and I didn't find it much different than my Jackpot with the 250 rear as far as handling and turns
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Darksiders?
