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Cruiser
Posts: 294
rhode island | anyone lose pressure in their rear brake line?
no apparent leaks or loss of fluid. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 177
NW Illinois | Yes I was going to post but did not get a chance. 2 weeks ago when I took the bike out after sitting alll winter was going for the first ride, no foot brake. I went right down to "Randys" (Great Shop) they bled the brakes said there was a little moisture and air in the line that went to the front on the integrated system. After that I have been riding almost every day with no problem.
They did call Victory and Victory said they had heard of a couple people had the same problem.
I had no leaks or fluid loss either |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Hmmmm, that's very odd. There has to be another cause to that problem. GA Trixie had an issue with the line getting a hole in it I believe, next to the left floorboard mount where it was rubbing against. I checked mine and pulled it up off of it with no problems and will check it again before I head to Atlanta tomorrow. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 18
Austin, Texas | Strange...I had the same exact problem last week. Air in the line was the cause. The dealership claims this is the first time they have seen it. They also stated a washer on a banjo bolt was supposedly the cause. I'm going to see if it happens again. Doesn't sound like an isolated incident to me....
Kevin |
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Cruiser
Posts: 73
San Diego, Ca | Mine went out last week . Thank God for the front brakes . My dealer said he has had three others go out , just bled the air out of the line . They did not know what causes the air in the lines. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 57
| I had the same problem air in the line |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Recall time. Please, please make sure your dealers get this info to Victory ASAP. If you experienced it at home and fixed it, tell the dealer, tell Victory PLEASE! Now, please give us some stats here and on theVMC. - Year of your Bike
- Model
- Serial Number
- Date of purchase
- Miles at time of occurance
- If bike was stored, how long was the storage?
I have a 2008 Tour Premium with 37,000+ miles purchased Nov 07. I never had this problem and I leaving for Atlanta, but this might change everything. By the way, my serial number 3114. Please do not ride your bike until this is fixed if you fall within the parameters. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | Wonder if it is possibbly a temp related type issue? Perhaps long term cold? How were these bikes stored for the winter?
Just tossing a rough theory out for ponderance.... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 106
L.I., N.Y. | I rode all but about 20 some odd different days due to snow and ice. ohh and once or twice when it wouldn't start. But other than that no problem yet, but she still at the dealer I tell them to bleed out the brakes just in case Tuesday. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Guys, if it sounds like I'm making too big of deal of this, say so. Any pressure loss of brakes, obviously, is not a good thing, especially an unexplained reason. This should not simply be a "bled them" and that takes care of the problem, as the problem can reoccur at the time you need them the most. So the more folk that chimes in with the problem TO THE DEALER AND VICTORY, the better chance of them looking into it, getting a recall out so all can be taken care. I would not want this resting on my shoulders if I had the problem and did not let the appropriate people know and we lose a couple rider because of it. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 294
rhode island | thanks guys,
I'll try bleeding them today, And contact my dealer in the morning.
I have a very early vision tour with 12,000 miles. this was the only problem so far. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 89
Chandler, AZ | mine went out at 9500 miles. The bike does not sit and is riden 2-3 times per week in warm to hot conditions. The dealer had to bleed my brakes the "entire" day. They said they had to keep pressure on it to make sure the air bubble that caused the issue was removed. It has been fine since then (about 4k miles ago). Mine is an 08 Cumfort purchased last January 08... They also said it has happened to 2 or 3 other Visions ... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 177
NW Illinois | Mine sat for 3 months in a non heated garage
My Dealer did contact Victory
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Cruiser
Posts: 266
Hartland, , WI | graybeard - 2009-03-29 8:26 AM
Mine sat for 3 months in a non heated garage
My Dealer did contact Victory
Mine sat for 144 days before I rode it this month. Sits again for days and another little ride, now we have a blizzard finishing up so it will be a while to ride again.
No problem with the brakes when I went for my first ride. I rarely use brakes as I don't ride in much traffic and start slowing with the engine and down shifting....use the front brakes primarily and the foot brake about 10% of the time.
The mysterious air in the line is a mystery as the brakes are part of a closed system. As the pads wear down and the caliper pistons extend further, I thought that is what the reserve of brake fluid is for. Does the temperature heat/cold cycle cause "air" or "void"? That would suck because wouldn't that just be great when you need them in a panic stop that you get air!
2800-ish miles.
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Tourer
Posts: 367
Cottage Grove, Mn | Here's what I know about brake fluid and the braking system:
1. Brake systems are not closed they have to be vented to work properly.
2. Venting allows moisture to migrate into the system.
3. Moisture reduces the boiling point of brake fluid.
4. Temperature will not affect the performance of brake fluid unless it boils.
5. Unless it's silicone all brake fluid it will attract moisture.
6. One drop of moisture will have an adverse affect on the braking efficiency once it boils and becomes a vapor.
It is extremely easy to raise the temperature of brake fluid to 300-350 degrees or higher in calipers during heavy stop and go traffic conditions and then cool down to normal temperatures. Over time this creates moisture in the system.
Moisture itself is not compressible and acts similar to brake fluid, but when it turns into a vapor at temperatures above 212 degrees it can be compressed compromising braking efficiency resulting in conditions such as greater pedal travel, increased stopping time and distance, and a failure to be able to lock the bike down during an emergency stop.
I flush and refill the entire brake system with a minimum of 2quarts of Super Dot 4 brake fluid every spring. I use a refractometer to test the brake fluid in my bike and find that the boiling point can be reduced by as much as 150 degrees depending on driving conditions and mileage. Some auto supply stores sell brake fluid strips that test boiling point and moisture level, but use caution the have an expiration date don't use an expired strip.
I recommend you never allow anyone to add brake fluid to your system simply because you do not know how the fluid was stored i.e. was it allowed to sit around open for a period of time absorbing moisture?
The only way I know of for air to get into the brake system is to have had a leak in the system or to have been opened down stream of the reservoir allowing the master cylinder to ran dry and then refilling it without bleeding the system.
That said I have some questions for those of you that had the problem:
1. Did you have a complete failure or was there just greater travel?
2. Did this failure happen in the garage or after you rode for a while?
3. Do you keep your bike in a storage area with fluctuating temperatures?
4. Have you ever flushed and refilled the system completely?
5. Did any of you actually bleed the system and see the air or is that what the dealer said?
6. Is it possible the brakes just got better because of the new fluid
7. Was this problem just the rear?
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Cruiser
Posts: 247
| mine sat most of the winter in an unheated garage. started right up but i noticed the rear brake was mushy and ewnt lower than i remember. thanks for the heads up. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 266
Hartland, , WI | Thanks Jerry...that was quite the lesson. You changed my mind. I have never been much a believer of flushing and changing brake fluid. |
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Tourer
Posts: 367
Cottage Grove, Mn | Np problem: remenber the same applys to your cage. I change the fluid in my cars every 30k or when the boiling point starts to fall and i have never had a brake issue except for pads. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 266
Hartland, , WI | Blackjack - 2009-03-29 5:26 PM
Np problem: remenber the same applys to your cage. I change the fluid in my cars every 30k or when the boiling point starts to fall and i have never had a brake issue except for pads.
Yep...that's where I first heard about the idea...had a "write up guy" trying to convince me I need to change the brake fluid on my Co. ride. I just thought it was another good commision idea for him that he was offering. Why does the fluid need to be changed when it isn't exposed to the elements stored in a closed container/loop...now I know more. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | Victory uses DOT 4, so be carefull around the paint. Cant understand that. most other are using DOT 5. DOT 4 and lower are water soluble and attract moisture. Also remember to pump your rear brake pedal when you change the front pads due to the linked system. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | It is obvious that everytime I open my mouth or type here on the forum I show my ignorance. Thanks for all the input. I'm not a "brake man" but I find it interesting that a new machine would have problems so early on with the brakes in such a manner without some other problem. If it is what it is then there is not a concern. Again, I've run 38K now and had the rear brakes changed by the dealer, but they didn't flush the fluid. That was done around 32K and even up to that time I've had zero problems with the rear brakes. I changed the front pads and pumped until pressure returned, but I did not change or bleed. Still, I have no problem with it. So, is this a common occurance across all brake system, or is this more prevalant with motorcycles since it is a smaller system. Just trying to learn more. |
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Tourer
Posts: 367
Cottage Grove, Mn | Varyder:
Ignorance is such an ugly word I prefer unawareness.
If there truly was air in the system and the system has never had a leak or been allowed to run dry for some other reason then the air was present from the factory but then the problem should have occurred immediately.
Once the system is filled and properly bleed there just is no way for air to get into the system.
Moisture however occurs when the temperature varies. Think of a glass of ice water on a hot summer day and all the moisture that collects on the out side.
Brake fluid by nature is a hydroscopic substance and because of that it will attract moisture anytime it is exposed to the open atmosphere or the temperature varies greatly. This is one of the reasons manufactures are making reservoirs out of translucent material so the fluid can be easily checked without opening the reservoir.
Moisture also plays a major role in creating electrolysis in the system. Electrolysis in its late stage can usually be detected by the discoloration of the fluid as it causes the copper to leach from the brake lines.
While discolored fluid is not an indicator that moisture is currently present it does indicate that it was at one time present in the system.
I have check the boiling point of brake fluid that you could not see through and it was ok and I have check fluid that was clear and found the boiling point to be unacceptable.
Anytime the fluid is discolored it should be flush and refilled with the OEM recommended fluid.
As with any automotive fluid driving habits play a major role as to its longevity. Riders that use more engine braking and less hydraulic braking or ride more highway than city will in some respect have less of an issue. Nearly all import OEM's and some domestic OEM's recommend flushing the brake system at certain intervals and some will even pay for it under warranty because they understand its importance.
IHMO one should change the fluid every year and don't be afraid to use a lot of fluid its cheap by comparison, never keep an opened container of brake fluid more than a year, never store the container in direct sunlight.
When I'm riding down the interstate at 75 mph or riding anywhere for that fact and I have something less the 20square inches of tire patch between me and the asphalt I want to be able to stop.
I hope this helps.
Varyder: Even though I'm a Yankee I love your state and wish I could live there. I have spent a lot of weekends at the South Boston Speedway (home of the fried baloney sandwich) when we raced the ASA series.
Does Elliot Sadler still hold the record for the most fried boloney sandwich's eaten in a day?
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Ouch! Having been born and reared in NOVA I missed alot of the true southern Virginia treats and have never been to S. Boston. Sadly, I don't know whether his bologna sandwich record still stands but I can wolf down a few myself. Thanks for the education on the system, and knowing hydraulics and the potential problems, I just find that this is a prevelant problem with our beloved Vision. I do find it very concerning, but hope nothing bad comes out of it. Though I hear chunks of asphalt can ruin a person's day. Hope all goes well in Michaels situation and can be back in the saddle again soon. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | To date I have had 5 Visions with a brake pedal that goes to the floor. In EVERY one one of them I found the air to be in the FRONT calipers. All of these bikes were 08's, and milage has been anywhere between 3 on a freshly uncrated bike to 7500 during a service. I have no explanation, and I have not heard anything from big Vic about it other then the typical" Never heard of that before" |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Guys it is not all that uncommon to have a little trapped air in a linked brake system even if you use a power bleeder. Had a wing that was a royal pain to get bled 100% and sometimes it would take months before the bubble would cause a flat pedal. Glad everyone negotiated the pedal falling safely and I don't think you have anything to worry about if the dealer got the remaining bubbles. |
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no rear brakes
