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Tourer
Posts: 506
Woodland Hills, CA | Perspective is an amazing thing.
A friend of mine came out to Los Angeles from Houston for 4 days this last weekend. Since I still have my Road King, we were able to spend a good portion of the weekend riding throughout southern and central California. My friend has been been riding (and raciing) everything from off road to sport bikes to touring bikes (OK, he didn't race touring bikes) for well over 40 years. And he has been a die hard Harley fan for over 30 of those years including buying, rebuilding, selling and riding several Harley models. He knows what he is doing, and was very comfortable on my Road King (he currently owns a Road King as well as several other bikes).
After our first day riding he commented on how hard it was to keep up with me on the twisties (evidenced by the scraped up floorboards and exhaust pipe on my Road King). Given that he is a much better and more experienced rider that me, I took it as a compliment to the Vision.
On our second day of riding I decided to trade bikes with him so he could get a feel of the Vision. We rode highways, mountains, long sweepers and tight twisties. His comment to me about half way through the day was "This is the best bike I have ever ridden, bar none!" No surprise to any of us, but HE was really surprised; so much so that he says he will be looking to buy a Vision for his next bike (he too has a Road King, but knowing him, he will probably keep it and rebuild it into a bar hopper).
What's more, after spending a day back on my Road King I was almost startled at the difference. Of course we all know how great the Vision is (which is why I bought the bike in the first place), but I had not realized just how big a difference it really was.
None of us needs to be sold on the attributes of the Vision, but if you really want to get a feeling for just how great this bike really is, go back and spend a day on your old bike, or another similar bike. You may not only appreciate the Vision even more, you may marvel at just just how good, and fun, this bike really is.
Anyway, that's my opinion, and the opinion of my friend. In the meantime, if anyone wants to buy a good used Road King, you know where to find me. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Wiz, that is one thing I've always wanted to do since getting the Vision. After riding for a solid year I have no idea what the other bike even feels like, I just know that everything is better and different on the Vision. Thanks for sharing that comparison as a comformation in my mind that there is a solid contrast between the Vision and all the other bikes out there. I stood looking at an UC the other day and couldn't picture being on that ride at all. It looked to be all scrunched up in comparison. None the less it was a beautiful bike, but if I want a rough ride, I'll take the Jeep.
Edited by varyder 2008-11-24 2:52 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | 
Edited by varyder 2008-11-24 2:52 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 506
Woodland Hills, CA | Interesting you mention looking "scrunched". The other thing I really noticed riding the Road King again was how small it felt compared to the Vision. Yet the Vision handles more like a sport bike. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Mind you, I had only been riding my GL1200 for two years after not riding for about 24 years. I test rode a Kingpin the week before my first test ride on the Vision. When I went for the test ride and looked at the Vision I will admit that I was afraid I would wreck the bike and be banned from riding by my wife. When I sat on the Vision, it intimidated me that the dash and the front wheel was so far forward, though I liked the roominess in comparison to the GL1200. Frankly, though I was getting ready to say, "I can't do this, it is way too much bike for me." But the guy at the dealer was already pulling away and and like a little kid I took off being a little shaky. But the size disappeared immediately and this bike made me feel sure of what I was doing. The next thing I know we were on I-95 and I was trying to hold back to stay behind him. When we got off the interstate on the side highways, I learned quickly to let him get down the road some on his Vegas as I would want to pass him on take off. He seemed to be getting down on the Vegas but the Vision was taking little effort to keep up. I wanted to keep on riding when it was over with and the GL1200 never felt the same. Even after getting the GL1500, I dispised that bike because of the floorboard set up and told the wife that I couldn't ride her on the 1500 as I wasn't sure of it with a rider, it was just too challenging and my legs weren't long enough for me to be surefooted with her on the bike. I didn't hesitate to get the Vision when she said go ahead (goat head). When I went to pick it up the Vision, I sat there as patient as I could while the dealer went down the check list. I did the yeah, yeah where do I sign. The rest is history.... Ride On! Ride Often! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Comparing apples to oranges but I think I understand the point you re making. Victory had no intention of competing with Harley and yet folks can't resist comparing the two bikes. Own both, ride both, and BOTH do things better than the other. That surely doesn't take anything away from the Vision it does what it does really well. I've read and been told that Victory was actually trying to scoop some of the custom bike business (BigDog/IronHorse), not Harley and not Honda. I'd say they did well if that was their goal. 12k in 3.5 months of riding is pretty good so it must be an alright bike. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | Wizard:
I took your advice, went out to the garage, took the E-glide off the trickle charger where she had been patiently waiting for me, checked the tires, the oil, the exhaust clamps, adjusted the air shocks for rider only.
Spray polished her up, admired her classic beauty!
Put in the key and she fired right up.
I started to fall in love all over again. Who can resist the sound of those Vance and Hines duals.
Then I noticed that she had puked about 3 quarts of oil and was rapidly wet sumping her way to a seized motor, and my driveway was becoming a super-fund site.
Thanks for reminding me why I went looking for a new technology machine in the first place. LOL
Happy Thanksgiving and Ride Safe!
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | Teach, I usually agree with what you say and respect your degree of experience with other bikes but to say Victory had no intention of competing with Harley is really stretching it. Victory had three direct competitors with the Vision; the Ultra, the Goldwing and the K1200LT. These were the purpose built luxury touring bikes. Victory spent a lot of time listening to all three groups of riders and picking their brains about what they did and didn't like about their bikes. 6 years and 20 million dollars later, we get the Vision. The Vision is not meant to be as good as the Ultra, Goldwing or LT, it is meant to be better. If you sell motorcycles in the United States, you have just gone head to head with Harley first. Everybody else is standing in line. The Vision will only get better and become the world class bike we all want it to be because every one of us is pretty open minded and not afraid to tell it like it is and take chances. That is exactly the mindset at Victory right now. They are young, hungry and energetic about making the best bike. All of the "fluff" is left for the marketing department and aftermarket companies to get onboard with. I personally think that Victory (and Polaris) is a little shocked at how enthusiastic and intelligent Vision owners are. As a group, we are racking up miles at a clip never seen by any other Victory model. (I have to believe that the same 2,500 mile oil change interval that they have used on every other model has got to to be increased somehow on the Vision. Lots of us can easily hit that in a week of vacation time.) The tide is changing and this is only the opening shot. Victory aimed at the Utra first. One down, two to go. |
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Tourer
Posts: 506
Woodland Hills, CA | I have to admit that when I got on the Road King again, it felt like home (albeit a bit smaller than I had remembered); the sound, the vibration, the raw Harley feel. And it wasn't my intention to trash Harley, or any other bike for that matter. Teach makes a great point about comparing apples to oranges, and rightly points out that the Vision is not competing with Harley. My point was more about how startling the difference was between the 2 bikes, especially after not having ridden the Harley much since I bought the Vision.
Both the Road King and the Vision have their positives and negatives, some quantifiable, some depending on your point of view and preferences. I have been riding Harleys for about 20 years, and have loved every mile. And I still love that feeling when I first take off on the Road King. But I bought the Vision because I felt its performance, comfort and reliability were much better than my Harley, and after 5 months of riding the Vision, I can tell you that I have not been disappointed. But it was really fun to ride the Road King again for a day and see just how different these 2 bikes really are.
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | I could not ride the Goldwing nor the Ultra because the seat is to high for me. My best choices were the Harley Heritage, Victory Kingpin Tour or the Vision. I did not find any other bagger that fit me.
The choices one has depends on many factors. For me the primary focus was to find a ride I was comfortable on. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| SongFan, maybe I didn't explain it well. The Vision wasn't aimed at the HD diehard or the geezer on his 3rd GW, it was aimed at the custom rider who was looking to make the step to a distance rider. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
Now I do applaud your enthusiasm for your Vision but you have put the cart before the horse I believe. How many Harley Ultra's sold last year verses how many Visions. I don't foresee the Vision ever overtaking Harley in the Tour department, nor should it. Some bikes do everything very nicely, other bikes do most things nicely, rare bikes do all things exceptionally. The Vision is good, but it isn't there yet and quite frankly I don't believe it ever will be. Maybe I should explain? The Vision will tour and do it nicely, BUT the Ultra will do it with equal to better mpg, easily handle cargo, and require less maintenance. Now your going "no friggin way" but yes way. The Vision averages approximately 43-48 mpg fully loaded, my Harley always 48-51. Both bikes will handle a reasonable amount of cargo BUT the Harley is much easier to load AND easier to access wen on the road. And while many of us (yes me included) have exceeded the recommended maintenance intervals, it does not change the fact that Victory requires maintenance at a very close interval for a TOUR bike. So this is where the rubber meets he road with my comments. The Vision WILL carry cargo, but it is the weakest link for this tour class bike. There is NO way to keep the Visions lines and yet change the characteristics of its storage compartments. This is what will keep the Vision from reaching the iconic status the Ultra and GW have. GREAT all purpose bike capable of touring, just not the "perfect" bike for it or even the best at this stage of production. Don't get me wrong this is NOT a diss on the Vision, I think its a reality and characteristic Victory knew it was building into the concept. The design comes with advantages and drawbacks, each rider decides wat they can live with and without. I'll take the Vision for 99% of my general purpose riding/touring, for the heavy duty touring I'll take the RG. Maybe in a few years my Vision will nudge its way into my Harleys soft spot, not yet though. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Teach, I gotta chime in here. I have seen mo-peds in Thailand carrying more than any Harley or Victory would dream of - and get more MPG to boot. It ain't about that - I think it is like the Cadillac commercials: When You Turn Your Bike On - Does It Turn YOU On?
There is no other touring bike that comes close to turning me on like my Vision. And for me - that's why there is NO comparison that makes any sense - capacity, MPG, handling, looks - any of it. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Don, don't get me wrong this isn't a diss on the Vision, I love mine. My Vision does certain things light years better than any HD, but there are certain things the Harley does the Vision just can't. I can't put in type the difference of which I speak but have a good look in some old shootouts of tours. You'll quickly find that while LOTS of tour bikes are far more refined than a Harley, when it comes to use the HD wins everytime. Its little things like a square tourpack which makes all the space usable, or a top loading saddlebag that allows that extra margin for over-packing. Its not BIG things that separates one bike from the next, they are very subtle and minor differences.
Now if you were to argue that the Vision has the outright best stock ergo's of ANY tour on the market.... I'd be the first to agree. Oh and
I am happy that you are "all that and a bag of chips" in love with your Vision..... Its been a lot of years and a lot of saddle time since I felt that way about any bike. Enjoy it........ |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Teach, you sound old, and jaded. Tsk Tsk. I am young, and in love. With my new wife, and my new bike. Everything smells wonderful - even my farts...., and even colors are new and fresh - life is GRAND ! You aught to try it.
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Ride On! Peace Out!
Edited by varyder 2008-11-25 10:07 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | My brother introduced me to the Victory brand in 2002 and told me how great they were.
Last Friday he bought the 2009 CVO™ Ultra Classic® Electra Glide® in Ruby Red and Typhoon Maroon. While he was working with the salesman, a guy walked up and tried to give my brother $500 cash to stop the deal. My brother refused.
Too bad he can not take his own advice and buy a Vision. Even the Tenth Anniversary Vision would have been better and cheaper then the CVO.
The one thing I like about his CVO Ultra Classic Electra Glide is the Hydraulic Clutch. The CVO's is smooth as glass and a breeze to use.
The Vision Hydraulic Clutch is too hard to pull in (a lot harder then the Ultra), too far to reach (much further then the Ultra) and it can not be adjusted (but you can bend the Visions clutch handle in a vise and maybe break it).
I was thinking that a return spring is much stronger then it needs to be on the Vision and the lever could be replaced and adjustable. Here is a great opportunity for an after market company. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Maybe I need to pull the clutch on the ultra, but I've not had any difficulties with mine and I have small hands. I'm just wondering if all are the same distance and pull pressure or is there differences between Visions? One thing I notice on the '09's they have the hole in the clutch and brake housings for the ball mount for the cup holder or other stuff. The '08's ain't got that and I want to drill the hole and tap it so I can be like any '09.... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| RT, I'm not a big fan of the Hydro clutch but this aside, YOU should be able to retrofit the clutch perch/cable setup of the KingPin to your Vision. I've been thinking I might do this myself after having ridden the Kingpin while my Vision was in for work. I prefer the manual clutch feel and the tranny shifted WAY smoother on the KP. I'll do a detailed writeup with pic's if I decide to go this route over winter. Depends a lot on what the weather decides to do.
Don, lol no not Jaded my friend.....I could care less if its an Ural or GW so long as it does the job I need it to. I'll let others concern themselves with shiny bobbles. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | The thing I like most about the Vision is that its different. When I had my '02 eglide, I would walk into the dealer and the '07's looked like what I allready had. Why go into debt again for another $25k when I could add the same thing for $1k or less? And, it would start all over again, getting it to where it was accesorized to my taste. I have had two new harley's and had no major problems to speak of with both. Both were very dependable. Took my last one apart a 65k thinking something had to be worn by now (an excuse to add more power) when I got it apart, it was like brand new. My compulsion to make my vision louder is slowly subsiding. I dont want my vision to sound like my last HD. I want it to sound like a Victory. Unique in its own way. My biggest reservation is lack of dealers and company support. In this economic climate, competing with HD and Honda, just breaking even is an accomplishment. Not really looking to replace my Vision. But, considering the treatment with this one. I'm not sure I would buy another Victory. Not sure if I'm getting old or just lazy? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 59
| I have ridden since I was 11 years old and now I am 51. I have owed 10 Motorcycles in my life time. Sport Bikes and Cruisers. I will admit I have never owned a Harley. I have friends who do, but I have not. I have a good friend who has let me ride his Road King and I will tell you I was not impressed. I have always thought Harley's were over priced and over rated. I feel people buy and ride Harley's because they want to be part of that group. They take pride that they own an American icon and feel they are superior bikes. But as for me I have always been very picky about my motorcycles and have always wanted the newest and most state of the art bikes. The best of the best. Regardless of the few short comings of the Vision. It is to me the best in it's class.It is a great tourer. Funny thing a friend of mine who rides nothing but Harleys and never has own nothing but refuses to take me up on my offers to take my vision for a spin. I can't understand why he won't. Maybe he's afraid that he's been wrong about other motorcycles all his life and doesn't want to be proved wrong . Go Figure! |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Brand loyality is an amazing thing. I have my preference and even believe there is a difference even in similar items. Jeans as an example, Levi's or nothing, they feel and fit better even though the quality is about the same as the rest. So from that perspective it will never be about all the other stuff, it is a Harley and he has made a pact with himself to never break that pact. I guess the way I see is that as a buyer he keeps the competition healthy that makes a benefit for us all, because the standards are maintained high. The Vision is my fit and wouldn't care to ride anything else except to contrast how good I got it. I know a guy that hangs out at the Victory dealer and rides a big dog. He's riden the Vision but says it is not him. He rides long trips and tries to figure out how to make his dog more comfortable. The vision is affordable for him, but it is not him, the big dog is inspite of the inconveniences. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 965
New York State | For years the Harley was the only choice if you wanted to Buy American . Unless you hunted down and restored an Indian. I was very happy to test ride both Harley's and the Vision before my legs telling me that they wanted to have the Vision. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 175
Colorado | Interesting thread....Has anyone read the October issue of Motorcycle Cruiser? I wondered how they could have rated the Vision as low as they did..I had to reread the article a couple times as their findings are so drastically different from my own personal experience with the Vision and the other two bikes. The only logic to me is that one rider/writer lead and the others followed right along like sheep and convinced or pursuaded each other two bag on the Vision. I would be interested in your thoughts on the article if you read it. |
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Tourer
Posts: 506
Woodland Hills, CA | badnvegas - 2008-11-27 11:26 AM
Interesting thread....Has anyone read the October issue of Motorcycle Cruiser? I wondered how they could have rated the Vision as low as they did..I had to reread the article a couple times as their findings are so drastically different from my own personal experience with the Vision and the other two bikes. The only logic to me is that one rider/writer lead and the others followed right along like sheep and convinced or pursuaded each other two bag on the Vision. I would be interested in your thoughts on the article if you read it.
You may be right about following along like sheep. There was another article on the Vision in an edition of Baggers earlier this year, and while the reviewer stated that "...the chassis, suspension and motor are exceptional...", he concluded that the bike "... came up short..." and "... had too many issues that would prevent us from buying these bikes...". What issues? Well, for example he said "Its a deal breaker for any motorcycle to have such poorly designed mirrors...". He also said that "... as you may suspect, some little bits rattle." Another critical item he noted was that "There is an extremely cheesy, barely secured plastic cover over the front of the motor...".
I am sometimes not sure what these guys are thinking, or what they are trying to do. How can you have a bike that is exceptional in all the major areas important to a bike, but not want to buy it because you don't like the mirrors, or the plastic cover on the motor? As most of you know, I have nothing against Harley, and still have one. But I sometimes think the reviewers are just so prejudiced towards Harley that other bikes aren't getting a fair review.
In any case, I read this review BEFORE I bought my Vision, and didn't understand it then, and understand it now even less. But the article was partly responsible for me going out to test ride a Vision in the first place. A touring bike that with exceptional handling and motor was something I had to try. And once I rode it, I bought it! The rest is history....... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Its been my experience that these magazines run hot and cold so I NEVER put any stock in what they have to say. A year ago the magazines were raving about the Vision when it was obviously the inferior choice in the shootout, I didn't see anyone here making statements to set the record straight. The old believe none of what you hear and half of what you see argument, lol.
Anyhow I wanted to add a new twist to the discussion: What happens to your Vision in 3 years when Victory closes its doors? Now I'm not starting any rumors but it is no revelation that Victory has been operating in the red and Polaris has carried the MC division as times have been good. However the economy is turning a bit and the MC division is cutting into corporate profits. So it only makes sense that the non-profiting company would be closed, yes? |
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Vision vs. Harley
