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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | I love my Vision and enjoy practicing slow speed turns, U-turns and Figure 8's. I measured a 60 foot long box in front of my house that is marked for both 20 and 24 foot widths. After 4850 miles on the Vision I am getting really comfortable in a parking lot with the Vision.
On the way back from the IMS show in Houston last Saturday I had some concern when taking a sweeper on loop 610. It was on the corner where 610 West turns North to 610 North near Braeswood and Post Oak. I know that the Vision can do this type of turn but my technique needs some improvement.
I was on the left side of the far left lane going between 65 and 70 (any slower and they run you down in Houston), when I was getting close to the yellow line I pushed the Vision over further and was surprised when I crossed the yellow stripe by about a foot even with the added effort. A little more push and I re-entered the lane without issue and continued down the road.
I never felt out of control or was panicked about crashing into the wall; I just wanted to know how I could hold the line better in the future on high speed sweeping turns. Any constructive advice (short of selling the Vision and walking) is welcomed.
All in all is was a great cool South Texas day. I rode the Vision 420 miles in 11 hours and had a nice time at the IMS show. The show was not as good as last years show but the ride was great!
Edited by radioteacher 2008-11-24 5:40 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | wow RT. I think all you need you need to do is push a little more on the bar in the direction you are going. If that is not what you are looking for, I'm not sure what you are asking. I have caught myself in some fairly hard turns and when I came out of them, on track, I was amazed of how fast I took it with such ease. I was never able to do that on the other bike. The Vision for me is almost a "think it" and it will do it. I recalled taking Houston last year on the Wing and remember the intimidation coming through the 10 to 59 exchange and did not find it a pleasurable experience. This year on the Vision, during rush time, it was a piece of cake. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 92
West Bend, WI | RT, maybe you need to adjust your sight line out further thru the sweeper. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | radioteacher - 2008-11-24 4:38 AM
I love my Vision and enjoy practicing slow speed turns, U-turns and Figure 8's. I measured a 60 foot long box in front of my house that is marked for both 20 and 24 foot widths. After 4850 miles on the Vision I am getting really comfortable in a parking lot with the Vision.
On the way back from the IMS show in Houston last Saturday I had some concern when taking a sweeper on loop 610. It was on the corner where 610 West turns North to 610 North near Braeswood and Post Oak. I know that the Vision can do this type of turn but my technique needs some improvement.
I was on the left side of the far left lane going between 65 and 70 (any slower and they run you down in Houston), when I was getting close to the yellow line I pushed the Vision over further and was surprised when I crossed the yellow stripe by about a foot even with the added effort. A little more push and I re-entered the lane without issue and continued down the road.
I never felt out of control or was panicked about crashing into the wall; I just wanted to know how I could hold the line better in the future on high speed sweeping turns. Any constructive advice (short of selling the Vision and walking) is welcomed.
All in all is was a great cool South Texas day. I rode the Vision 420 miles in 11 hours and had a nice time at the IMS show. The show was not as good as last years show but the ride was great!
Certainly riding the 610 loop is very special anytime. Having riden the freeways of Houston I have noticed a lot of the interchanges or exits have dual apexes or changing radus curves. This presents problems unless your concentrating, which with all the traffic around you can cause you to loose that concentration. At 65-70 mph your line can change very fast. With that in mind, looking through the curve (line of sight) and throttle control will help you maintain your line. Normally where your looking is where the motorcycle will end up. Take care.
I also went to the show yesterday, thought is was not as good as last year. There were no Victory demo rides, everyone else had their demo rides. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Yeah, that too! The line of sight is the trick because that is just the way it is. That has gotten me out of a fix a few times when I had target acquisition and wanted to avoid that target, find a new target, where you really want to go. I hate to ask a dumb question, but have you ever taken any MSF courses? I've been thinking on dropping the coins and getting the Ride Like a Pro video done by the that police officer rider. I've been impressed with the videos and what I've seen. I want to know as much as I can when it comes to riding, because it may be the very thing that will save my life one day. Never to old to learn... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 74
College Station, Tx | I was at the IMS in Houston yesterday and took the HD Ultra Classic for a demo ride..... I will not be trading in my vision anytime soon that is for sure. I also discovered that Victory does not have any competition with HD...only Honda in the touring market. :-) |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Competition with Honda? I think that is a matter of opinion. Don't get me wrong, I respect what they have done with the GoldWing, but before I heard about the Vision I thought I was going to have to "settle" for a Wing. My legs were have a tough time keeping from locking up with only two positions, and a harley would have not fit the bill either unless it was mod to make it work for me. The Vision was straight of the box right for me.  I think as more folk come to know and appreciate the Vision and its capabilities, the GoldWing will begin to wane as the die-hard Wingers die off.  |
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Cruiser
Posts: 152
| RT remember just like in slow speed turns your bikes were you look ,if you are doing a figure 8 and in the tight part of the turn you look down you will most likely go down, it no different at higher speeds look were you want to go, this is what the other two were referring to look out to where you want to end up not at the road Ft 20 ahead. We have lost more brothers than I can count because of target fixation than I can count here is a yo tube link that might help and one of the example you say to yourself all he had to do was turn his head. Hope it helps. It is by motorman and these bikes are on the tail of the Dragon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkUzhh9E9A
Bob
Edited by bob5219 2008-11-24 11:26 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 423
northwest florida | go faster!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Thanks for the tips, advice and video links. In 25 years of riding, the Vision is the second motorcycle that I have ever purchased. The first was a 1982 Kawasaki CSR 650 cruiser with an inline four.
I rode the CSR 650 for 15 years until the bike was a mess. When I sold it in 2002 it needed the brake systems replaced front and back, new or rebuilt carbs, its battery replaced, the charging system fixed and the electrical system repaired.
I was able to bum a few rides on other bikes from time to time but decided it was time to own a new cruiser. I took the wife with me to the HD dealer and she was impressed but once we saw the Vision in person, we were hooked.
About two months ago I went into a 35 mph corner way to hot at about 55 mph on the Vision. I saw the problem and applied light pressure on the back brake, backed off the throttle, stopped looking at the guard rail and put my eyes on the sight line around the corner. It was a single lane curve with no others on the street. I leaned my body closer to the console to lower the center of gravity of the Vision. I did not drag a floor board but I am sure it was close to the pavement. To my surprise the Vision responded with a smooth sweeping turn with room to spare. Thanks Victory.
Dollarbillwi,
You are right. I was looking to close in.
VisionTex,
The corner felt like the radius was changing and I was keeping a very close eye on the traffic. I should not have wandered too far off of my sight line for that curve.
Varyder,
I have not taken the MSF courses yet but plan to take the basic and advanced rider courses early next year. Experience is no substitute for Training. Training is no substitute for Experience.
Firehawk,
My brother introduced me to the Victory brand in 2002 and told me how great they were.
Last Friday he bought the 2009 CVO™ Ultra Classic® Electra Glide® in Ruby Red and Typhoon Maroon. While he was working with the salesman, a guy walked up and tried to give my brother $500 cash to stop the deal. My brother refused.
Too bad he can not take his own advice and buy a Vision. Even the Tenth Anniversary Vision would have been better and cheaper then the CVO.
Bob5219,
You are right. Look down at the ground and you will lay the bike down or try really hard to keep it up. Thanks for the video.
A99miata,
In Houston, on Loop 610 you go with the flow or die. It does not matter if you drive faster or slower then the flow of traffic, someone will try to kill you. Even going with the flow is not a guarantee of coming out alive.
Edited by radioteacher 2008-11-24 4:20 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 732
Western WA | RT,
Can't add much to the great advice already posted here, but I will mention something that I practice all the time and it has kept me out of trouble more than once.
Delayed apexing. Think of it as outside - inside - outside. It improves sight lines, and allows you to break up a long sweeper into two or three smaller arcs. It will also help with decreased radius turns.
Here's a good PDF on the subject.
http://www.thevillagenomads.com/PDF_Docs/The%20trendy%20delayed%20a...
I highly suggest David Hough's books to everyone. Profecient Motorcycling is a great book, as are his others.
Plus, he's a local boy up here in the Pacific NW so I have to give him a plug.
I gotta say though that the Vision just shreds corners like nothing I've ever seen. I've came into corners really hot a time or two, yet I know I've never got close to the Vision's capabilities.
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Jacksonville Florida | Now Breaker knows what he is talking about. Just like a race car turn in late, cut the center and power on. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 137
Houston, Texas | RadioTeacher
Living in Houston I can tell you that many of the 'sweepers' on the freeways here are flat turns, no bank in them at all.......don't know what knucklehead engineer designed them but they are just as difficult to negotiate in a four-wheeler. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Breaker and Len Rhymes,
Thanks! That is a great article. I can practice this on my daily rides to work and back home. It is all back roads with a maximum speed limit of 55 mph. The 7.5 mile ride has 5 straight miles, the rest is sweepers, tight turns and potholes.
I have been driving the same roads for seven years so I know most of the trouble spots and problem drivers. High School kids, women putting on makeup, Men in pickups eating breakfast, Deer! and Mini Vans filled with kids screaming at mom are the biggest problems.
Where the deer are I try to stay near the left side of the left lane to give me more warning and the most options to evade the animal.
Today conditions were terrible. It was misting all of the way to work and really slick! I kept my actions smooth and fluid and watched out for someone sliding into me. Two cars fishtailed pulling on the road in front of me but no one was driving really stupid, Thank God.
STARSHIP 1,
I am sure that you know that most of the knucklehead engineers that work for Texas DOT graduated from Texas A&M. Most of my family have degrees from A&M so I can honestly state that fact. In some ways we have great highways in Texas in others (like terrible signs misleading the exit to take) they stink.
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| RT, if you REALLY want to improve your riding skills pick up a copy of a book called "Twist of the Wrist." I've mentioned this book before and can't say enough good about it. You could practice daily, get advice from good and bad riders, etc.... or you could find a copy of this book and have a close read. Everyone I've ever met who has read it said it helped them improve their riding more than any other tool. Hope this helps.....but if its any immediate help, I believe the guys who suggested looking further thru the turn are on the right thought path. Look where you want to go, go where you look..... |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Teach,
Thanks. I think I saw a copy at Half Price Books last time I was there. I will pick it up. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 50
| dollarbillwi - 2008-11-24 8:08 AM
RT, maybe you need to adjust your sight line out further thru the sweeper.
Ditto
Glock  |
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Cruiser
Posts: 92
West Bend, WI | RT, glad it helped. I use to do the same thing before I remembered basic riding techniques. The Vision takes the curves so easy that I have more of a problem over steering her . |
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Cruiser
Posts: 152
| RT I took The Day Course for skilled driver at local HD dealership and it was well worth the price $135 you ride your own bike and they teach and you practice all this plus more. great way to become more intune with your bike because it is skills you dont use all the time but they can damd well save your life.
Bob |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | I wonder if this need to adjust the sight line is an urban survival mechanism kicking in.
I've noticed since I moved to SoCal that when I travel I'm forced to spend significant amounts of time in very close traffic. No matter what the speed, nobody observes safe following distances, there are lots of trucks and vans blocking the view of the road ahead. etc.
I am always scanning the roadway for indications of who's headed into my lane, brake lights, front wheels of cars next to me changing direction, (nobody uses turn signals) and as a result spend much less time looking down the road. Then when I do get out into areas where I can actually ride I have to FORCE myself to adjust my sight line and look further down the road.
Anyone else having this problem, seems to me that my environment is causing me to adapt bad riding techniques for the open road.
Happy Thanksgiving and travel safe!
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | I wonder if this need to adjust the sight line is an urban survival mechanism kicking in.
I've noticed since I moved to SoCal that when I travel I'm forced to spend significant amounts of time in very close traffic. No matter what the speed, nobody observes safe following distances, there are lots of trucks and vans blocking the view of the road ahead. etc.
I am always scanning the roadway for indications of who's headed into my lane, brake lights, front wheels of cars next to me changing direction, (nobody uses turn signals) and as a result spend much less time looking down the road. Then when I do get out into areas where I can actually ride I have to FORCE myself to adjust my sight line and look further down the road.
Anyone else having this problem, seems to me that my environment is causing me to adapt bad riding techniques for the open road.
Happy Thanksgiving and travel safe!
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Unfortunetly I have the same threats here in Central Va, but not as bad as you. I always look for a pocket or an out, therefore I either ride the far inside or outside lanes. I usually don't have the problem when I hit the open road as I'm always adapting to the current situation. Usually when I'm forced to ride in heavy traffic and I'm on the inside lane going with the flow, I'll ride where I can see two or three cars up and watch for their reaction and not necessary the one immediately in front of me, though they are in view and I'm paying attention. My peripheral seems to be fairly good and it helps me to keep on top of things like cars coming into my lane. I had one once come over and I was acutually riding next to the right front fender so it wasn't like I was in the blind spot, and they keep coming so I was able to speed up and get over into the other lane and slow beside them but they acted like I wasn't there. I went on down the road wondering if wasn't intentional of if they were just stupid and shouldn't be driving. I've also had the redneck trucks with the big harley stickers act as though they want to run me off the road, but of course I'm sure it is just my imagination, but I definetly stay away from those jerks. I've had folks that starting coming into my lane and I blew the horn and moved on. They seemed sincere that they weren't paying attention because they slowed down and moved into a slow lane, making me think they realized what they could have done. But the bottom line is that we need to adjust immediately to the situation at hand all the time. I'm guilty of moving along faster to get to an open area of the highway ahead of traffic when the situation permits. Slowing down to do the same thing often proves to me a problem, so speeding through and finding the open spot without dramatic moves or close quarters seems to be the sensible thing to do. I find if you "race" along, there is always a challenger that will ride your tail, so I just move over and let them "race" themselves. Also, I find the ones that are curious as to what I'm riding, or at least I think is the reason, will ride beside me too long, and I'll slow down and let them get on down the road. If they really want to see the bike I just wish they would follow at a safe distance and wait until the next time I stop or go to there nearest Victory dealer. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | On the way back to San Antonio I dropped in behind a 2003 Kawasaki Voyager. We stopped and talked later on down the road. He had put 90000 miles on that bike. After the stop I put on my Nolan 103N to try the Vision CB on the road. My CB/Radio needs the 4.13A flash (currently 4.11) to fix the 6 second CB transmit problem.
On the ride with the Voyager, Traffic slowed down in right lane and he moved to the left to pass them. I saw a red truck coming up fast in the left lane. I waited for the truck to pass but it didn't. It slowed down to look at the Vision. By this time the slow traffic was coming on me fast. I looked at the guys in the truck and waved my hand to tell them to GET OUT OF MY WAY!. They got the hint and moved up in time for me to pull in behind them and not be caught behind the slow car.
Sometimes the looks of the Vision can get you in trouble.
Edited by radioteacher 2008-11-25 5:27 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Tarpits, I believe Varyder found the polite way of telling you that the same line of sight (as far out as possible) should be utilize along with peripheral and close quarter scanning. Often times when unfamiliar with a roadway or traffic pattern we will do the opposite of what we should and focus too much on whats close. Nothing wrong with close except when we don't see whats happening 5 or 6 cars ahead. A purely reactive approach to riding isn't safe (we won't mention stressful, lol), so if you can practice scanning FAR DOWN the road even in the tough/crowded driving conditions, you'll be better for it.
I found myself riding really tense a few years back and couldn't put a finger on it. Wasn't a nice relaxing ride when I went out but rather stressful. Then one afternoon it occured to me I wasn't looking dwn the road. Made the adjustment and good as new. Had to remind myself to look out ahead for a good week though. Even the most experienced rider can fall into a bad habit if not cautious, for this reason even the msf basic course can serve a useful purpose. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Hey Paul, I thought about you as I blew thru SA on the 16th. I did go down to the Alamo, but wish I kept going. They had some walking thing, which I respect but there was a lot of traffic and slow moving because of the walkers. You can't stop directly in front of the Alamo so I got some side shots around the wall that goes around the ground. I've been in the Alamo before and will always remember it (no pun, well....) Anyway, I thought about you but I was already behind my schedule and even went a day longer because of the chill and mountains. I'll make better plans for the next trip down and we might ride the hill country together. But on topic, I'm going to put that in my review, but I notice a lot of the "ride beside" effect and it does get aggrevating. I just wish they realized what they are doing. Occassionally, I'll get one that will ride back and off to the side, which I'm okay with that. Now off topic again. I ran into one Harley Rider at Pleasanton that was going to Corpus to share a time share with a friend. He had come from about an hour or so from the west and stopped for gas to continue on. He said that his friend was trailering his bike from Kansas. When I told him I rode down from Virginia to McAllen and I was on my way back, he said "Wait until I tell my friend because he thinks riding from Kansas is a long way." He was even further amazed that I had rode over three hours without stopping. He made the polite comment that he ought to look into getting a Vision since he was wanting to ride more.
Edited by varyder 2008-11-25 10:28 PM
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Need advice on High Speed Sweeping Turns
