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Cruiser
Posts: 259
Land O Lakes, FL | I have to say the Vics performance is great. Quite a little powerhouse for a Twin. My buddy has an 11 Road Glide Ultra and since we are both old school racers we always end up racing each other (closed road in Mexico) no matter what we have. Just good ol fashion friendly competition.
When his HD was stock we lined them up and it was the Vic hands down without trying. Then he got screaming eagle exhaust (which sounds great), k&N filter, screaming eagle air box thing, and stage 1 tune from HD ($1000). Again the Vic could pull away but he was much closer. Not even thinking about performance I drilled the baffles out of my exhaust for some more sound ($20) and a nice side effect was it really woke the big Vic up, enough so that I handily pulled away again. Well now that pissed him off so got a gutted cat and had some cams thrown in along with a retune this week (another $1500) and showed up at my house with a big smile. I took the HD for a spin and it really does run great. made good numbers about 82hp/96tq 51% humidity. Not to bad for a 103ci engine.
Well we rolled out for a short ride (same road in mexico) and did a nice roll on... Once again, to his disappointment the big Vic pulled him, of course a much smaller margin to about 60, he's right there, after that the Vic starts to open the lead and he's about 2 bike lengths or so behind me. I think if I had the trunk on it would be a touch closer but up top the Vic still pulls the HD. Roll on from 2k rpm in 6th gear and the Vic steadily pulls away. If he gets a bit of a jump we stay pretty close, win to the Vic still though. He could never come around no matter what we tried.
He was still happy but disappointed. His comment was $2500 and I'm now as quick as a stock Victory, oh yeah lol.
Now I'm NOT HD bashing his bike is very very nice and the exhaust and the sound system are stellar as is the ride but after riding them back to back I still prefer my Victory. It's just right for me...
Anyway thought you guys might like to know how we stack up against the biggest competitor. Of course I don't ride the Vic for speed (though ima junkie I admit) that's why I also have a new ZX-14R. When I want to go fast I start that monster. Talk about scary, whahoo!
Edited by PhantomX 2012-09-19 10:04 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | A die-hard Harley rider I work with says its not about going fast, it's about the sound. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
| It's about the sound only after you outrun a HD. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | this guy rides like 3 times a year, believes Harley is the only motorcycle and doesn't even like to discuss anything if you don't ride a Harley. So, it is what it is to him. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
| varyder - 2012-09-20 6:52 AM this guy rides like 3 times a year, believes Harley is the only motorcycle and doesn't even like to discuss anything if you don't ride a Harley. So, it is what it is to him. I'm thinking most of us know people like that. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 259
Land O Lakes, FL | I know I've met a few, my buddy however isn't one of them. He did a lot of research and for what he likes he bought the Harley, I too think it's a great bike and wouldn't mind owning one someday (love the CVO's). His style and what he wants vs what I want are different. The Vision is very precise the Harley is like a big couch, the Vision is a bit narrower and shorter to the ground vs the HD as well and I'm a short guy so I like that. They are both great machines that serve a similar purpose but take a different approach to getting there. We've both owned just about every major manufacturer out there so we spread the love... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | varyder - 2012-09-20 1:19 AM
A die-hard Harley rider I work with says its not about going fast, it's about the sound.
It's hard to hear the HD when it's so far behind me.  |
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Tourer
Posts: 323
Troy, NY | My buddy rides a Harley Rocker. We were at a stop light on a straight away and we do the look and rev the engines. I had is little brother riding with me.....so I was 2 up. His Harley has a PC with upgrade exhaust and filter. We like some already said....I couldn't hear his exhaust because he was behind me - lol!!! I took this same buddy to the Victory Demo ride recently. He is not a Vision rider yet....but he loved the Cross Country. I think next year he is a Victory owner. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 259
Land O Lakes, FL | Wow with all those mods you should have easily "rocked his rocker" lol... |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Ain't NO hopped up Harley EVER come near being as fast as me - and I almost ALWAYS have Co-Pilot on board when they try. Two of my pals have HD's with over $10,000 in mods to their engines - and CAN'T beat me - riding solo - while I have filled luggage and Co-Pilot aboard. As I approach my 70th birthday - I fear NO Harley. I used to whoop 'em with my 750 Virago - and can sure as hell do it with my KevinXinated Vision. |
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Tourer
Posts: 599
New Mexico | Last night on the way home about midnight I saw a group of 8-10 crotch rockets in front of me on the highway. Speeding, buzzing in and out of traffic, but not super annoying/unsafe like some groups. I was doing 70 in a 60, and they were probably doing 80.
We exited and I caught up with them at a red light, pulling in behind their group at a respectful distance. The light turned green and those sewing machine engines cranked up to 8K rpm in seconds, but I grabbed some throttle and kept right with them. Headed into a desolate high-desert area where it gets curvy and the speed drops to 35. They were still doing 80, and I still kept right there through it all. Was a lot of fun!
At the next light most of them went through, but 3 got left so I pulled up behind them. They all turned around and waved, but looked surprised to see a 50 year old fat guy on a 900lb bike keeping up with them :-)
They really put the pedal to the metal pulling away from the light, and again, I was right there with them. At the next light the rest of the riders were waiting for them, and as I veered off to head home the whole group was waving a hearty goodbye.
This is one FUN bike! And at 38k miles it is good to know I have AT LEAST 87,000 more miles to enjoy
(thanks to VaRyder's durability testing!).
Edited by Boots 2012-09-21 10:11 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | smoothness, torque and roll-on for me is excellent on the Vision. I was on my way home Thursday and we have the Million-Dollar mile (look it up with Hopewell, Va in the search criteria) and was doing more than I normally do through that stretch. Sure enough, there they sat, so when I checked my speed I couldn't believe how fast I was going. I was already rolling off, but when I got beside him, he hit the blue light. But, I think it was only a warning, or got someone else, as I never saw him behind me. The Bentley is bone stock, but she's never disappointed me any to justify any upgrade.
Edited by varyder 2012-09-21 11:00 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | PhantomX - 2012-09-19 11:00 PM
Anyway thought you guys might like to know how we stack up against the biggest competitor.
We have a competitor? Puhleese. |
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Tourer
Posts: 466
Grand Cane, LA | I haven't seen the new '13 Harleys but we may have some competition this year. The new CVO line has been bumped up to a 110" motor that has similar specs. as our Visions. Can't wait to see one run, but I bet I can still wax their a** in a drag race. Most Harley riders I know can't ride worth a flip. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | A stock 110" SE HD aint gonna keep up with a stock Victory, either a Vision or CC. A Stock SE 110" makes about 80 HP and a Victory makes about 85. Now if they spend $2000.00 on ported heads AND a matching cam AND a PC V AND a bigger throttle body AND a good 2-1 exhaust, it could make 115 HP, but hell a 106" Freedom Engine with just a small cam, slip on pipes and a fuel controller will make that much for about $5000.00 less......... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
| Good luck finding HD ported heads,cams PCV,throttle body and exhaust for 2k. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
| I just love reading this stuff!.......Oh and I don't hesitate to pass a hd that is toading the lane. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | It's in the heads. 4 valve Vic heads will out flow any 2 valve HD heads. Especially at higher rpms |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | I meant $2000.00 just for the heads.......... 
Edited by XRsteve 2012-09-21 9:51 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | cjnoho - 2012-09-21 7:59 PM
It's in the heads. 4 valve Vic heads will out flow any 2 valve HD heads. Especially at higher rpms
You're exactly right. It's not just the HD 110 that the Victory 106 beats either. The other competitor to the Vision is the Honda 112 (GL1800 Goldwing) that is also a 2 valve head and the power reaches about 100 HP at 5200 RPM and then drops back below 100 HP at 5600 RPM on that motor (400 RPM wide) while a Victory 106 with Lloydz cams and ECU produces power over 100 HP at 5000 RPM all the way to the 6400 RPM rev limit (1400 RPM wide). It's not just the peak numbers that determine the overall performance, but the width of the torque curve. The 4 valve Victory motor typically has a power band 500 to 1000 RPM wider than either the 2 valve HD or the 2 valve Honda, which more than makes up for the smaller displacement of the Victory. It's not all just at high RPMs either. The GL1800 makes torque in the 100FT/LBs range from 2600 RPM to 5200 RPM, dropping to about 75 FT/LBs at 6000 RPM, while the Lloydz Victory 106 makes torque in the 100 FT/LBs range from 2600 RPM to 5600 RPM, dropping to about 81 or 82 FT/LBs at 6000 RPM.
There is, or was, a Power Commander for the Goldwing, but adding it didn't gain more than 1 or 1 1/2 horsepower. Aftermarket exhausts gained the GW about the same amount. The 2 valve heads limit the GW.
When Suzuki went from 2 valves to four valves on the GS1100 30 some years ago, they gained 20 horsepower with the same displacement and rev limit. The rest of the basic motor was very similar--intakes, exhaust, etc. It was all in the cylinder head design.
Ronnie |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Correct: Heads along with matching cams do controll airflow thus power levels and 4 valve heads ARE superior. A very carefully crafted set of two valve ports with matched cams or cam and correct valve sizes can flow as much PEAK air as a 4 valve design BUT they can't sustain that airflow over a wide rpm range. That's why most "stepped on" Harleys have a torque curve that looks like a bell and 4 valve head engine like our Victory engines have a much flatter torque curve. The duration of the cam can move that tq curve one way or another on the rpm scale but that causes it's own set of problems............ |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Right again. That is why moving the rev limit on the Victory 106 up to 6400 RPM is of such benefit, even though the peak numbers don't change much. It lets the motor stay in the fat part of the power band longer in each gear, resulting in better performance.
Case in point--my Lloydz equipped Vision basically became an even match, overall, in performance with GL1800 Goldwings when I still had the stock 5500 RPM rev limit. Quarter mile times were similar (IF I didn't bang into that 5500 limiter, which killed the times), the Vision was a little faster in roll-ons, and the Golding could take the Vision on top end speed because of the 120 MPH ECU limit on the Vision. After the simple addition of the Lloydz ECU, my Vision is now quicker than the GW in the quarter mile, by better than a 1/4 second, and faster in the quarter mile by 4 MPH. It is still faster in roll-ons and is now quite a bit faster on top end speed than the GW.
The four valve Victory has the potential of a wider power band than the Goldwing, but if you retain the stock rev limit, you never get to use it and you give up a lot of performance.
After our local Harley riding friends heard about my Vision whupping the GWs, they aren't interested in trying to run it. They might have similar peak numbers, but their power band is even more narrow than the Honda's.
Honda advertises 128 horsepower (crank) for the Goldwing, which is a number that my buddy likes to quote when around the Harleys.
Most people think I have higher numbers than I actually do, based on how the bike runs, because they don't understand the relationship between the width of the power band and performance. They tend to focus on peak numbers. Some are totally convinced in their own minds that I "must have 130 HP because their dyno sheet shows their bike at 115 HP and the Vision is faster". Based on quarter mile times, I'm around 110 horsepower at the wheel. The wider power band makes the difference.
Ronnie |
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Cruiser
Posts: 281
| Interesting discussion.
My bone stock Vision was dyno'ed a couple of years ago.
It peaked at a bit above 100 TQ but the "curve" was flat as a pancake through the useable range. It peaked early and stayed late.
HP was in the mid 80s.
I have no complaints about the Vision stock 106 performance. At 2-up witth a full load of luggage we have no trouble getting going. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
| A friend of mine recenty picked up a new HD ultra with 255 cams,stage two flash and thunderheader exhaust. Still no contest although I do like the sound of his exhaust. He's convinced I have cams and I wish I did. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 78
Gilroy, Ca | My uncle has an 07 street glide with intake, exhaust and pc and my 12 VV just blows him away every time
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Victory vs HD Performance
