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The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles
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Spock
Posted 2012-03-17 11:32 PM (#110319)
Subject: The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles


Tourer

Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX

I got the complete front and rear Traxxion Dynamics suspension upgrade to my 2008 Vision yesterday and it is incredible!!  I really believe it is the best upgrade I have done to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles.

Max McAllister and two of his top techs Martin and Brian came to Dallas this Friday and Saturday to do a few Victory installations at Rick Fairless’s Strokers of Dallas and to set them up as a Traxxion Dynamics dealer.

After spending two days with Max and his team I can tell you now one knows motorcycle suspensions better. Their research, engineering and manufacturing process is the best in the industry.

Below is a picture of their front fork cartridge alongside the Victory stock cartridge and there is no comparison. The Traxxion Dynamics cartridge is about 1/3 the weight of the stock one and lowering the unsprung in the forks makes a difference. I could write a couple of pages on the difference from the quality of materials used to the engineering and functionality they have designed into each system. On their Vision solution you get top fork caps that allow you to adjust the compression and rebound of the front forks which is huge.

The rear Penske shock they have modified for the Vision is just as impressive. The combination provides a ride and handling experience beyond what you think is possible! After putting the new suspension through its passes on a wide variety of road surfaces here is what I have found.

The biggest thing you will experience is when applying a lot of front brake even very aggressively the front end of the bike does not dive like a stock bike. There is a little downward motion of the front end but it is so smooth and controlled and you cannot bottom out the suspension. The Vision’s front end due to the weight of the forward gas tanks and total weight on the front forks is prone to diving and it takes a very well-engineered suspension system to deal with this.  

The bike now absorbs both small and large bumps so much better while maintaining much better stability, smoothness and comfort.

Riding on the highway you are much more isolated from the road imperfections, bumps tar strips, grooves and such. The whole ride is so much more solid. There is less vibration felt on the whole bike. It is amazing how much vibration is transferred from the road to the body of the bike. The stability and control in cornering is enhanced as well.

The suspension of a motorcycle is supposed to isolate the bike from the road but almost all stock suspension systems do a very poor job at this because manufactures don’t want to spend the money on the components to do a great job.

If you get a chance to ride a Vision with the Traxxion Dynamics suspension by all means take it and your will be amazed. Knowing and experiencing what I have now when I buy my next Vision I will have this upgrade done right away.





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donetracey
Posted 2012-03-18 2:08 AM (#110325 - in reply to #110319)
Subject: Re: The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles


Visionary

Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada
I'm interested. Wouldn't be the first time I have re-done the suspension on my bike - and I know how wonderful that can be - on a couple of nice bikes.
You kind of get 'complacent' with the stock setup - but I found out about 30 years ago that people like 'Progressive' could change the way your bike rides and handles - ENORMOUSLY !!!
Went for a ride today - and was PISSED at the way the bike handled some sharp bumps - probably because the 'air' in the rear needs adjusting. But - that's BS - I know that the bike can be better. Please continue this thread and continue refining what and how we can do better. Thanks to all !
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varyder
Posted 2012-03-18 4:55 AM (#110326 - in reply to #110319)
Subject: Re: The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles


Visionary

Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA
Sound like something I need to look into. Is there an upgrade also to the rear shock as well?
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kris1956
Posted 2012-03-18 5:20 AM (#110327 - in reply to #110326)
Subject: Re: The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles


Iron Butt

Posts: 1109
Might be something to look into. I have Progressive on my HD and it made all the difference in the world. Any idea on the parts cost?

Edited by kris1956 2012-03-18 5:26 AM
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dnlbest
Posted 2012-03-18 7:46 AM (#110328 - in reply to #110319)
Subject: Re: The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles


Puddle Jumper

Posts: 30
Warrenton, VA
Like all upgrades that I would like to do, cost is a factor but you do not mention any. How much?
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kris1956
Posted 2012-03-18 7:54 AM (#110329 - in reply to #110328)
Subject: Re: The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles


Iron Butt

Posts: 1109
I went to their website but they don't list Vision. I looked at the Goldwing suspension and would think the pricing was close.
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marcparnes
Posted 2012-03-18 9:57 AM (#110335 - in reply to #110326)
Subject: Re: The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles


Iron Butt

Posts: 802
varyder - 2012-03-18 1:55 AM

Sound like something I need to look into. Is there an upgrade also to the rear shock as well?
I called them a few weeks ago to ask about the shock. They don't have a specific upgrade for the Vision but can supply one of their off-the-shelf units sprung for our bikes. What dissuaded me is that they have no installed method for adjusting the preload to compensate for a passenger, trunk, etc. When I asked the salesman about it he didn't have an answer other than to say their shock was such high quality it would be fine. Not an acceptable answer. With the 8-Ball springs and cartridges up front I'm satisfied with the forks but I would like a better shock if one was available.

Marc
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Spock
Posted 2012-03-18 10:00 AM (#110336 - in reply to #110329)
Subject: Re: The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles


Tourer

Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX

kris1956 - 2012-03-18 7:54 AM I went to their website but they don't list Vision. I looked at the Goldwing suspension and would think the pricing was close.

They have a new website that will launch in a week or so and it will have all the Vision and other Victory info. 

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Spock
Posted 2012-03-18 10:08 AM (#110339 - in reply to #110336)
Subject: Re: The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles


Tourer

Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX

For both the front and rear suspension including labor it runs about $1,900 to $2,000. It is a lot of money but less than getting it done on a Gold Wing. Smile

I was concerned about the investment but after riding the bike with the upgrade I would do it again in a heart beat. Like I said knowing what I know now when I buy a new Vision the first thing I will have done to the bike is the Traxxion Dynamics suspension.

I forgot to take a picture of the rear Penske shock they have built for the Vision. I will try and get one and post it. This new rear shock makes a huge difference as well. It will not wear out like the stock one and it works so much better and has a lot of adjustment to dial it in to your weight and riding style.

About a dozen people have ridden my Vision now and all have come off it saying I never thought you could make that big of a difference on a Vision. They were all very impressed to say the least.

I'm headed out on a 300 mile ride to put it through the paces some more and will have a report later.

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marcparnes
Posted 2012-03-18 10:13 AM (#110340 - in reply to #110339)
Subject: Re: The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles


Iron Butt

Posts: 802
Can you describe how the rear preload is adjusted after its been installed. I was told they had no provision.

Marc
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Spock
Posted 2012-03-18 10:15 AM (#110341 - in reply to #110335)
Subject: Re: The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles


Tourer

Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX

marcparnes - 2012-03-18 9:57 AM varyder - 2012-03-18 1:55 AM Sound like something I need to look into. Is there an upgrade also to the rear shock as well?I called them a few weeks ago to ask about the shock. They don't have a specific upgrade for the Vision but can supply one of their off-the-shelf units sprung for our bikes. What dissuaded me is that they have no installed method for adjusting the preload to compensate for a passenger, trunk, etc. When I asked the salesman about it he didn't have an answer other than to say their shock was such high quality it would be fine. Not an acceptable answer. With the 8-Ball springs and cartridges up front I'm satisfied with the forks but I would like a better shock if one was available. Marc

Not sure you talked to but call and ask to speak to Max the owner. There is a lot of adjustment with the Penske rear shock they had developed for the Vision. There is a rebound adjustment at the top and a compression and rebound adjustment at the bottom that is really easy to adjust up or down. They also have different size springs to match a range of weight you will ahve on the bike. So if you pull a trailer they have a solution.

They spent a lot of time developing the suspension for the Vision. It was hard to build a suspension system that would not dive with all the weight the Vision has on the front forks due to the positon of the gas tanks.

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marcparnes
Posted 2012-03-18 11:00 AM (#110346 - in reply to #110341)
Subject: Re: The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles


Iron Butt

Posts: 802
Spock - 2012-03-18 7:15 AM

marcparnes - 2012-03-18 9:57 AM varyder - 2012-03-18 1:55 AM Sound like something I need to look into. Is there an upgrade also to the rear shock as well?I called them a few weeks ago to ask about the shock. They don't have a specific upgrade for the Vision but can supply one of their off-the-shelf units sprung for our bikes. What dissuaded me is that they have no installed method for adjusting the preload to compensate for a passenger, trunk, etc. When I asked the salesman about it he didn't have an answer other than to say their shock was such high quality it would be fine. Not an acceptable answer. With the 8-Ball springs and cartridges up front I'm satisfied with the forks but I would like a better shock if one was available. Marc

Not sure you talked to but call and ask to speak to Max the owner. There is a lot of adjustment with the Penske rear shock they had developed for the Vision. There is a rebound adjustment at the top and a compression and rebound adjustment at the bottom that is really easy to adjust up or down. They also have different size springs to match a range of weight you will ahve on the bike. So if you pull a trailer they have a solution.

They spent a lot of time developing the suspension for the Vision. It was hard to build a suspension system that would not dive with all the weight the Vision has on the front forks due to the positon of the gas tanks.

What I was trying to ask is how it can be adjusted for a passenger whether preload or dampening once the shock has been installed since it isn't accessible. This is a deal breaker for me which is why I'm asking.

Adjustments are a great benefit but useless if you can't get at them after installation.

Marc

Edited by marcparnes 2012-03-18 11:03 AM
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Spock
Posted 2012-03-18 10:46 PM (#110395 - in reply to #110346)
Subject: Re: The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles


Tourer

Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX
marcparnes - 2012-03-18 11:00 AM Spock - 2012-03-18 7:15 AM

marcparnes - 2012-03-18 9:57 AM varyder - 2012-03-18 1:55 AM Sound like something I need to look into. Is there an upgrade also to the rear shock as well?I called them a few weeks ago to ask about the shock. They don't have a specific upgrade for the Vision but can supply one of their off-the-shelf units sprung for our bikes. What dissuaded me is that they have no installed method for adjusting the preload to compensate for a passenger, trunk, etc. When I asked the salesman about it he didn't have an answer other than to say their shock was such high quality it would be fine. Not an acceptable answer. With the 8-Ball springs and cartridges up front I'm satisfied with the forks but I would like a better shock if one was available. Marc

Not sure you talked to but call and ask to speak to Max the owner. There is a lot of adjustment with the Penske rear shock they had developed for the Vision. There is a rebound adjustment at the top and a compression and rebound adjustment at the bottom that is really easy to adjust up or down. They also have different size springs to match a range of weight you will ahve on the bike. So if you pull a trailer they have a solution.

They spent a lot of time developing the suspension for the Vision. It was hard to build a suspension system that would not dive with all the weight the Vision has on the front forks due to the positon of the gas tanks.

What I was trying to ask is how it can be adjusted for a passenger whether preload or dampening once the shock has been installed since it isn't accessible. This is a deal breaker for me which is why I'm asking. Adjustments are a great benefit but useless if you can't get at them after installation. Marc




Hi Marc,
Once the shock is installed you shouldn't have to adjust it even with a passenger and luggage. The shock was designed to work properly within a wide weight range. You can easily adjust the damping of the rear shock anytime. Just above where the bottom bolt on the shock under the bike there is as adjuster knob that you can easily reach and adjust the damping of the shock. You can adjust the rebound but you have to remove the seat and the plastic cover below the seat to get to it but once set you should not need to adjust it.

I rode over 300 miles today with and without a passenger and the suspension worked great. This is a significant better solution than the stock rear shock for a whole lot of reasons.

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marcparnes
Posted 2012-03-18 11:46 PM (#110398 - in reply to #110319)
Subject: Re: The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles


Iron Butt

Posts: 802
Thank you for the response. I will give the owner a call tomorrow.

Marc
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johnnyvision
Posted 2012-03-19 6:04 PM (#110453 - in reply to #110319)
Subject: Re: The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles


Visionary

Posts: 4278
I'm not saying its a bad item its probable really good "but" with our bike being poor in resale or not being a very popular model you would never get any part of your $2000 back and thats the biggest shame of the hole deal.
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marcparnes
Posted 2012-03-19 6:05 PM (#110454 - in reply to #110319)
Subject: Re: The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles


Iron Butt

Posts: 802
I emailed Max at Traxxion yesterday and he emailed back today that he was too busy to take the call and gave me his sales manager's name and email. I emailed and left a voice mail for him but he didn't respond either. Sounds like their business must be booming or they're just not particularly responsive. Odd way to do business. Each to their own I guess.

Marc
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Spock
Posted 2012-03-19 9:25 PM (#110466 - in reply to #110454)
Subject: Re: The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles


Tourer

Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX

marcparnes - 2012-03-19 6:05 PM I emailed Max at Traxxion yesterday and he emailed back today that he was too busy to take the call and gave me his sales manager's name and email. I emailed and left a voice mail for him but he didn't respond either. Sounds like their business must be booming or they're just not particularly responsive. Odd way to do business. Each to their own I guess. Marc

They have been slammed. Max and his two top techs were in Dallas doing a bunch of Vision's and Cross Country's and the week before they had their grand opening of their new manufacturing facilities with all new CNC machines. Check out their videos on their Face Book page. Their business is booming. They do suspensions for almost all bikes that ride on payment, no dirt bikes. They do a lot of the sport bike racing teams suspensions as well. Max blew me off today as well do to being slammed after being out of the office for 4 days. Mike Hardy the sales Manager should be able to help you as well.

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marcparnes
Posted 2012-03-19 9:30 PM (#110468 - in reply to #110319)
Subject: Re: The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles


Iron Butt

Posts: 802
Mike is who I was trying to reach.

Marc
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marcparnes
Posted 2012-03-19 9:50 PM (#110471 - in reply to #110319)
Subject: RE: The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles


Iron Butt

Posts: 802
Craig,
When you took your long ride did it seem that the bike rode smoother? Did it actually feel more compliant over bumps than it did with the stock parts? Reason I'm asking is that the Vision already rides as good as or better than most big bikes so I'm trying to convince myself that there is sufficient improvement room left to justify putting that much money in it. If we were talking about a Goldwing or a miserably suspended Harley I wouldn't think twice about it but with our bike I'm wondering. I know it's hard to be objective about something you've just put $2K in but do you really feel that much of a difference? As for brakes dive, I use both the front and rear brakes at the same time so I don't really notice much dive or at least I'm not bothered by it. I've always been into suspension upgrades including more Ohlins shocks and forks that I'd care to add up so I'm actually serious about this. What do you think?

I sure appreciate your time and opinion.

Marc
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swmckinley54
Posted 2012-03-20 8:15 AM (#110487 - in reply to #110471)
Subject: RE: The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles


Cruiser

Posts: 59
Austin Texas Yaaaalll
Marc, like you I have had few a BMW over the last 15 years, most recently a 2010 GSA that I sold when I got the Vision. Unlike you I never went with aftermarket shocks on the BMW, it was always good enough on the BMW and I kind of considered myself a suspicion dummy. I could never really tell if the bike needed an upgrade I could always keep up and even lead my buddies on their BMW's. Fast forward.....had the bike since August of this year and put 12,000 miles on her. Lots of time spent riding with my buddies on their BMW's so I am pushing the Vision. I get lots of comments from them about how well the Vision keeps up or flat out out rides some of them in the tight stuff.
But....... I have noticed or become aware of my suspension on the Vision. When I am pushing it hard in the corners and its gets bumpy the bike starts wallowing. I have tried different rear air shock settings with the same result. I ride with the trunk removed.
I recently changed tires and put on the Metz ME 880. I am not sure if the Dunlops were that bad of a tire or if they just fell off at the end of their life, but the Metz transformed the bike and the bike handled much better. But again this weekend I was pushing it hard and had to back off a little as the tire was not staying in contact with the road when things got a little bumpy.
So this thread has my interest and I may consider a suspension upgrade.

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marcparnes
Posted 2012-03-20 10:06 AM (#110494 - in reply to #110487)
Subject: RE: The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles


Iron Butt

Posts: 802
swmckinley54 - 2012-03-20 5:15 AM

Marc, like you I have had few a BMW over the last 15 years, most recently a 2010 GSA that I sold when I got the Vision. Unlike you I never went with aftermarket shocks on the BMW, it was always good enough on the BMW and I kind of considered myself a suspicion dummy. I could never really tell if the bike needed an upgrade I could always keep up and even lead my buddies on their BMW's. Fast forward.....had the bike since August of this year and put 12,000 miles on her. Lots of time spent riding with my buddies on their BMW's so I am pushing the Vision. I get lots of comments from them about how well the Vision keeps up or flat out out rides some of them in the tight stuff.
But....... I have noticed or become aware of my suspension on the Vision. When I am pushing it hard in the corners and its gets bumpy the bike starts wallowing. I have tried different rear air shock settings with the same result. I ride with the trunk removed.
I recently changed tires and put on the Metz ME 880. I am not sure if the Dunlops were that bad of a tire or if they just fell off at the end of their life, but the Metz transformed the bike and the bike handled much better. But again this weekend I was pushing it hard and had to back off a little as the tire was not staying in contact with the road when things got a little bumpy.
So this thread has my interest and I may consider a suspension upgrade.

Hi Steve,
I ride my Vision fast in the corners as well and I agree it can get a bit out of sorts if you hit a bump in mid-corner heeled over. Certainly suspension, and particularly a shock, with increased rebound dampening will slow down the oscillations to a certain point but are we trading off how compliant it is on the highway with increased abilities in the twisties? That's really the issue. We can't forget that this bike weighs damn near 900 lbs as compared to a GS which is closer to 500 lbs. That's huge. There are few bikes out there that can keep up with a GS in the twisties particularly when the surface is less than perfect. I've been riding them for years and have embarrassed more than one squid during that time. What this Vision is capable of is really amazing when you consider the heft involved and still maintain a plush ride. Just as an aside, I was primarily riding my GS before getting the first Vision. I tried a Harley but after spending way too much money on Ohlins shocks and Works cartridges I finally gave up trying to get it to ride and handle reasonably. There is just so much you can expect from a total 3" of rear travel when considering that 1" is taken up by sag. 2" ain't much. Once I started spending time on the Vision my GS went on the battery charger and only gets out now once a week to ride with group of sporty GS riders on Tuesdays. Interestingly, my body is now resenting the GS. Having gotten used to the comfort and ride of the Vision I find the Ohlins equipped GS harsh and punishing. Obviously the GS hasn't changed, just my perception.

In a perfect situation it must be possible to come up with suspension components capable of better control and improved compliance. Maybe between the Penske shock and Traxxion's cartridges Utopia has been found but I've been around long enough now that I'm always a bit hesitant to jump on the bandwagon having been disappointed in the past. I like to do my homework first. The other thing as we all know is that human nature usually has us touting anything we've already signed on to particularly when there is a lot of money spent in the process. I always absolutely love my new bikes for the first month or so till the newness wears off and I start noticing its shortcomings and begin the "improvement" process. Euphoria only lasts so long.

In any case, I'm pretty serious about doing this as well but first I have some specific questions for the Traxxion guys if any of them eventually call me back. The first question has to do with preload compensation when carrying a passenger and luggage. Since they have no provision for preloading the spring beyond installation I'm curious how much sag you gain with 200 lbs of passenger and luggage and what effect that sag has on handling and ground clearance. One of the advantages of being able to add air to a shock and even to a cheap emulsion type is that it not only raises ride height but also augments the spring for increased load capacity. Normal mechanical spring preload simply raises ride height but does nothing for load capacity. One way around the capacity issue while maintaining comfort when lightly loaded is to use a progressively wound spring or in the case of Works shocks, use two springs of different capacity. This is probably getting boring so I'll stop now and let you know when I speak with them.

Marc
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swmckinley54
Posted 2012-03-20 12:45 PM (#110501 - in reply to #110494)
Subject: RE: The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles


Cruiser

Posts: 59
Austin Texas Yaaaalll
Not boring at all and all valid points. I wouldn't dream of spending that kinda of cash without discussing or feeling sure about my purchase. Your'e right, it is a heavy bike and what I want may not fall under the realm of its mission. One of my buddies asked me this weekend when I was coming back to the BMW. I told I wasn't. I said I didn't think I could handle the sitting position on the BMW now that I am used to the Vision. Please keep us informed of your discussions with Traxxon.
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Spock
Posted 2012-03-20 1:48 PM (#110505 - in reply to #110471)
Subject: RE: The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles


Tourer

Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX

marcparnes - 2012-03-19 9:50 PM Craig, When you took your long ride did it seem that the bike rode smoother? Did it actually feel more compliant over bumps than it did with the stock parts? Reason I'm asking is that the Vision already rides as good as or better than most big bikes so I'm trying to convince myself that there is sufficient improvement room left to justify putting that much money in it. If we were talking about a Goldwing or a miserably suspended Harley I wouldn't think twice about it but with our bike I'm wondering. I know it's hard to be objective about something you've just put $2K in but do you really feel that much of a difference? As for brakes dive, I use both the front and rear brakes at the same time so I don't really notice much dive or at least I'm not bothered by it. I've always been into suspension upgrades including more Ohlins shocks and forks that I'd care to add up so I'm actually serious about this. What do you think? I sure appreciate your time and opinion. Marc

The biggest difference is in the front forks and it is huge. Everything is improved a lot!!  The rear shock is an improvement as well but not as big as a difference as the front. I am leaving out of town  though not on my bike sorry to say and I don't have time to do more of a write up but I will later this week.

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marcparnes
Posted 2012-03-20 2:11 PM (#110507 - in reply to #110339)
Subject: Re: The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles


Iron Butt

Posts: 802
Spock - 2012-03-18 7:08 For both the front and rear suspension including labor it runs about $1,900 to $2,000. Hi Craig,
Can you tell me how much they charged for the components themselves please? No labor.

Thanks,
Marc
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marcparnes
Posted 2012-03-20 7:32 PM (#110530 - in reply to #110319)
Subject: Re: The best upgrade to my Vision in almost 77,000 miles


Iron Butt

Posts: 802
I spoke with Mike today and placed an order. He agreed that there is no provision for preload on the shock and that it isn't practical to adjust it once its been installed without removing the rear wheel and inner shock cover. He didn't know how much additional sag there will be with a passenger. Seems they never checked that. In any case, he agreed that if it doesn't work out I can return it so I'll give it a try. I'll post a ride report once I get everything installed and put some miles on it. Thanks to Craig for bringing this to our attention. BTW, Mike said that Max and the two techs are going to Stoker's in Dallas this weekend to do some installations.

Marc
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