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New user
Posts: 4
| I'm curious about what type of torque wrench (if any) that people are using to re-tighten the axle nut. I have the S1/L1 exhaust on and can't get a torque wrench with socket on the nut. With the bike raised up (wheels off the ground) even an extension won't fit under the exhaust. |
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Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | If you are truly concerned about applying 65 foot pounds of torque to the rear axle nut, you may need to get a crows foot wrench to put on the end of your torque wrench. If you take a moment or two and set your torque wrench for the 65 ft-lbs and apply that amount of pressure to a fastener of no consequence, you will realize that 65 foot lbs is not difficult to pull. You can tighten the axle nut safely without a tourque wrench with a little practice, (other words, calibrate your elbow) you may hit the 65 or pull as much as 75 with a little practice. With the axle being of a hardend steel considering the diameter, it can take a whole lot more than the 65 foot lbs with out damage. When tightening the nut, you are only pulling the swing arm together with the left and right spacer against the left and right inner bearing race and then against the pipe spacer between the left and right inner bearing race. The 65 foot lbs is a minimum that helps ensure its tight enough to keep the wheel rolling on the bearing races. |
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Tourer
Posts: 377
O'Neill, Nebraska | rainmaker - 2008-08-22 9:51 PM
SrBiff - 2008-08-21 11:14 PM
As a totally new Vision owner (I don't even pick it up until next week!), is this a problem most of you are seeing? I'd like to know what I'm getting into...
I just got back from the VRA in Spirit Lake. There were at least 50 to 100 vision riders there. I talked to a bunch of them. No one was unhappy about buying a Vision. Yeah we all talked about things that bugged us, like AM radio reception (I never listen to AM) and shared how we overcame some of them. We told the Victory engineers there about the things we wanted fixed. I pretty sure they were listening.
I've had my Vision for 1 month and absolutely love it. Is it perfect....well to me it is. Does it have alignment problems on the left bag....yep!
Do I regret not buying a GW or UC (I rode both). Certainly not!
As for this quote (above)....my only question is were you able to find one of those rascally engineers in Iowa? I'd love to hear their take on the radio and the radio controls.
Stay safe! |
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Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | Teach, I was thinking today, (i am ok, didnt hurt to much) with the belt issues you are having, i believe you are right in asking for a new belt along with both pulleys. If either of the pulleys were machined just a little bit off, they would wear crooked on the belt. So you adjust it to compensate for the poorly made sprocket and then the belt wears more or stretches in that particular plane till it has to move over again and of course the noise starts all over again. Have you noticed any unusual wear on the sides of the belt? and with a light and good magnifying glass, can you tell if there are any possible stress marks cracks in the the belt. These would hopefuly show up on the outer layer of the belt as well as the inside. Just a thought that crossed my mind. If no one is looking at the belt or teeth of the sprocket close enough and just trying to adjust the belt with out truly investigating the cause, this would explain the constant adjusting. You will also want to look for uneven wear on the teeth of the belt, this means from the left side to the right side, not just from tooth to tooth.
Edited by dwhite28 2008-08-26 10:52 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 340
Regina Saskatchewan Canada | I have a squealing belt but most of the time it was just the first few blocks on a cool morning, nothing I worried about to much. On my vacation it seems to be getting worse. One day it squealed most of the morning mostly under power and every time I stopped for gas or a break I could smell burnt rubber. My front tire is wearing uneven, instead of wearing flat in the centre it is wearing more on the right side. My thoughts are that the rear wheel is slightly out of alinement which is causing the belt to squeal and the front tire to wear uneven.
I had it in this morning to the dealer to check a number of things out including the belt tension and alinement. They tightened the belt but can't figure out why the front tire is wearing uneven. The mechanic thinks it is too much or to little oil in one of the front fork shocks.
Oh surprise surprise, after I left the dealership, the belt is still squealing. The mechanic also said that when he rolled the rear wheel the belt would move from the right side of the rear pulley, to the centre and than to the left and back again, that just doesn't sound right to me.
I feel that there is something not right with the rear end of the bike which causes the squealing belt and uneven tire wear. Does anyone think the same thing as I do or am I out to lunch?
Edited by Crawford 2008-08-26 11:44 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | The mechanic at your dealer THINKS there is too little oil in the forks - did he check? If not, Why not?
Severely uneven tire wear is never a good sign. Something is wrong, somewhere. Forks, stearing head bearings, triple clamp alignment, wheel alignment, swing arm bearings, tire pressures and load distribution all effect tire wear, handling and safety.
Find the problem, replacing the tire which I assume that you are doing , is only masking the real issue.
I would suggest that they need to figure out what.
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Evergreen, CO | The belt moving from one side to the other points to something that is not stable (maybe the mechanic?). I personally would limit my riding until the root cause of this is determined and corrected, as this also sounds like a potential safety issue to me. Uneven front tire wear sounds like yet a second safety issue. If your dealer is unable or unwilling to spend the necessary time to troubleshoot and correct these problems in short order, I suggest you take it to another shop for a second opinion. |
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Tourer
Posts: 340
Regina Saskatchewan Canada | Tarpits99 - 2008-08-27 12:56 AM
The mechanic at your dealer THINKS there is too little oil in the forks - did he check? If not, Why not?
Severely uneven tire wear is never a good sign. Something is wrong, somewhere. Forks, stearing head bearings, triple clamp alignment, wheel alignment, swing arm bearings, tire pressures and load distribution all effect tire wear, handling and safety.
Find the problem, replacing the tire which I assume that you are doing , is only masking the real issue.
I would suggest that they need to figure out what.
Tire pressures have always been in the proper range. As far as load balance for the most part it has been one up riding with no luggage. One 3600km(2250mi) trip with two up and the luggage seemed to even from side to side. I don't believe either of those two are the cause.
I firmly believe it is the alignment of the rear wheel that is causing the belt squeal and uneven front tire wear.. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Crawford my front tire has a band around 1.5-2.5 inches wide and is raised a good 1/8 of an inch from the rest of the tire. This is a COMMON tire wear pattern. The tire manufacturers use a stiffer compound in the middle of the tire to cut down on flat wear in the front. The result is the sticky sidewall compound wears quicker producing a ridge. Road crown and road surface compounds effect the tire wear pattern in this manner as well. I've had this same issue with Bridgestone tires which could be corrected by running additional tire pressure in the front tire. That hasn't seemed to work for the E3's.
Now the belt moving side to side? Ok you have some movement where you shouldn't have movement. Either the pulley is warped, wheel bearings bad or the swingarm is moving side to side for the belt to worm across the rear pulley. I'd have the dealer check the swingarm pivot, rear wheel bearings and shock mount bushings asap. If nothing is found there a new belt and pulley set should be installed. Something is allowing the rear pulle to swing in and out thus causing the belt travel. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 7
Biddeford, Maine | I had the squeak so bad, I had to wear ear plugs in addition to my helmet. The dealer that I purchased the bike from adjusted the belt numerous times. New pulleys and belt were installed, problem solved for about 50 miles. Went to a different dealer, fixed in fifteen minutes no charge. Just starting again after 3500 miles. Never had this issue with my '05 Touring Cruiser.
Knowing what I now know, I would still buy the Vision, just from a different dealer. |
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Fountain Inn, SC United States | I posted this in a different belt squeal thread but will also post here...
I've received an email from Phil Ross who owns Super Max Products, a belt drive/pulley manufacturer. It was in response to this thread.
He writes:
"My name is Phil Ross. I own Super Max Products. We have been in the belt drive
business since the early 70's and we make all of our belt drive products
with Poly-Pulleys. Over the last few years, we have perfected a method to
Over-Lay many of the existing rear wheel pulleys currently on the market. Nearly
all aluminum pulleys squeal after only a few miles and looking at a thread on
your website, I see that there innumerable people with that problem but no one
seems to be aware that the noise can be stopped by having us over-lay their
existing pulleys. The early Victories were machined out too far and couldn't
be over-layed but we now see they the later ones can be done over..Longer belt
life and no lubrication is required..www.supermax.net.
Thank you, Phil Ross"
Just thought I'd pass this on.
Jeff
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Cruiser
Posts: 70
Central Victoria, Australia | has anyone followed up with the supermax people?
Sounds like these people know what they are doing ?
id really like to get rid of my drive line noise, is everyone got it sorted or just putting up with the noise
? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 92
West Bend, WI | Phil Ross passed away last December. Not sure if the business is still up and running. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 741
Central New York | They still have a web site. I sent them an e-mail to see if I can get some info. If I get a response I will post. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 208
Edmonton Alberta, Canada | Change tire air to nitrogen, and if that does not work, make sure the gas cap is on tight. Sorry I could not resist, I too had the squealing belt probrlem, I found the cure.......tighten belt. First check belt alignment, if good then I loosened axle nut, and turned tightener 1/6 of turn tighter, and tightened axle nut. Took for a ride, and have not had the squeal since. May take 1-2 tries, however, a belt only squeals when loose or out of allignment. Not saying there could not be something else wrong, but lets "KISS" Keep It Simple Stupid. We are riding Victory Motorcycles, not Harley Davidsons, that need to be re-engineered aft over 100 years of production! |
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Tourer
Posts: 394
Tucson, AZ | Just a suggestion and I am NOT a wrench by any means. After owning my Vision for about six months, my belt developed a chirp on hard acceleration as well. My Harley riding friend suggested I try the using Harley moly oil. It is designed to lubricate the front belt gear but also lubricates the belt. Looks very similar to Vaseline. So I bought a tube, three or four dollars. Put the bike on my jack stand, started the engine, dropped the bike into first gear. As the belt rotated, I dabbed about four pea sized globs of lub on the belt. Noise gone. This was in September. This last week I noticed a very small chirp again. Repeated the procedure, chirp gone. Now this may not be a permanent fix, but it worked for me. Again NOT a wrench by any means. Just offering a little info. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 70
Central Victoria, Australia | thanks folks,
sad to her about Ross sounds like he was a visionary.
I had my bike serviced and was told all was good, and developed the "noise" about 2 miles from the shop!!
i spoke to shop, they said you can check your alignment by.. I explained thats what i just paid for
they were forwarding my concerns to the Service Manager
Phil |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 741
Central New York | As stated earlier I am posting the reply;
Hi Gary,
We are indeed still in business. At present we are able to do our overlays on the following tooth count: 61, 64, 65, 70. Most for what is sent to us is 1 1/2". But we can also do 1 1/4" or 1/1/8". Our base price for the 1 1/2" is $535.00 plus shipping, insurance back to you. Every other week is machine week, and all orders are done by appointment, due to the large volume of pulleys we receive. Call me and set up an order, 928-649-2836. And yes, 98% of the time is does take care of the noise. The only problems some of the guys might have is if you are using a belt with too much wear, that does not correctly fit the pulley.
Thanks Gary,
Vyvyan Ross SMP
That's hot off the e-mail!
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Tourer
Posts: 599
New Mexico | space_cwboy - 2008-08-22 10:45 AM
For all of you that currently have belt noise, do one very simple check - get down on all fours behind the bike and look at how your belt CURRENTLY aligns on the rear pulley. If you cannot verify that the pulley is not against either the left or right edge (most likely) of the pulley, you have an alignment problem! If you have or have access to a motorcycle jack, align it yourself, as it is easier than you could possibly think! It will take about 30 minutes to complete, you only need a large crescent wrench capable of opening to 1-1/16", and a 1/2" wrench. Here are the steps:
1. Lift the bike so the rear wheel is off the ground
2. Place the trans in neutral
3. Loosen the 1-1/16" axle nut
4. Turn the right side ("passenger" side) rear axle adjuster 1/4 turn using a 1/2" wrench - move axle towards front of bike if belt is against right side of pulley, or move axle towards rear of bike if belt is against left side of pulley.
5. Turn the left side ("driver" side) rear axle adjuster 1/4 turn, using a 1/2" wrench - move axle towards rear of bike if belt is against right side of pulley, or move axle towards front of bike if belt is against left side of pulley.
6. Spin rear wheel by hand, turning wheel as if the motorcycle is going forwards at least 2-3 full rotations
7. Observe if drive belt is now centered on rear pulley - if so, skip to step 9.
8. If observation in step 7 shows drive belt is not centered on rear pulley, repeat steps 4, 5, 6, & 7 until belt is centered.
9. Carefully tighten the 1-1/16" axle nut to factory specs
10. Lower the bike off the motorcycle jack
11. Enjoy chirp-free riding!
My recommendation with the above is IF you repeat steps 4-7 more than about 4 or 5 times, you should recheck the belt tightness to see if it still is within spec. By turning one side of the axle one way, and the other side of the axle the other to help align the wheel and belt, its relative location on the bike does not change significantly, and should not cause the drive belt tightness to go out of spec. If you have to make a LARGE number of adjustment cycles to get the belt to track properly, it MAY affect the belt tightness spec.
I hope this helps...I know I was sure frustrated for some time when my belt was making so much noise, so I can surely sympathize.
At 6000 miles I just started to develop a new noise. Having never owned a belt driven bike I turned to the VV forum and found the answer.
Thanks to Space Cowboy and everyone else who provides these great tips. The archives are a treasury of knowledge that I really appreciate. |
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Tourer
Posts: 444
Bay of Gigs, WA | So I'm getting ready for a trip and my belt has been squeaking two-up for about a week. I tried adjusting the belt, and since it's against the right side of the pulley, I naturally moved the right side of the axle backwards a little bit, thinking then the left side would be closer to the front, and the belt would move over that way. Unfortunately, like most things scientific, the real answer, as proposed by Spacecowboy above, appears to be the exact opposite, I suspect because the belt will actually "climb" to the most rearward side of the pulley as opposed to "falling" to the most forward side. Oh, well, that's why I don't live in Vegas, since I got a 90% chance of blowing a 50/50 bet.
That said, I had read before that some belt dressing would also take care of the problem. Well, I bought some, squirted it on a portion of the belt that was exposed, figuring it would spread itself evenly around the pulleys, etc., as the wheels turned. It stopped the squeal, sure enough, but then I had a "grench-grench-grench" noise. Thinking I was on the right track, I applied more, figuring that as an American, more is better, and I just needed enough to coat everything better. The "grenching" noise kept getting worse. Scratching my head, I reread the can, and the words "for V-belts" jumped out at me with new importance. What does a slipping V-belt have in common with a toothed belt that squeaks? Not much, as the v-belt needs GLUE to stop slipping and squealing, and the toothed belt needs LUBRICANT! If the teeth are still there, slipping isn't the issue. So I boogied over to my garage medicine chest and pulled out a spray bottle of "Wax as you Dry" and squirted a liberal dose on the belt and crossed my fingers, and lo and behold, the problem seems solved for the time being, until I get an opportunity to adjust the right side of the axle forward a bit to try and align the thing on the pulley before I hit the slab. Hope this helps, and frankly, I'm thinking of picking up a small can of silicone lube to spray on the belt in case the problem returns while I'm on the road or I'm unable to cure it with the adjustment approach.
Edited by rainryder 2011-06-20 1:33 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 95
Alberta, Canada | My dealer replaced my rear pulley on warrenty and it has not made a sound again!! Been over 20,000 K and its quiet!! |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| All ways roll belt forward like riding. Chirp or squeal comes from when belt teeth come out of the grove and hit the flange that holds the belt in place.
We can't see it on our bike but you want the belt to go is straight as possible. Looking on the bottom is really not the answer cause the front pulley
sends it back to the rear pulley in a straight line.
No I don't have a answer other then keep trying. |
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Belt Noise
