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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 14
Vancouver, WA United States | First, let me apologize if this has been asked a million times.
I am riding a bone-stock 2013 Vision with the o2 sensors unplugged.
My wife got me a Lloydz Timing wheel for Christmas. I'll be installing that soon. Next, I was thinking of installing an upper air filter. Is there any real difference between the Lloydz and the Arlen Ness upper air filters?
I am also thinking about replacing the stock air filter with a performance air filter. Should I do this before installing the upper air filter or replace them both at the same time? If I add an upper air filter, do I need to replace the stock air filter?
I am also thinking of doing a Thrush Mod, not so much for performance, but just to get some better sound from my pipes.
With all these changes, do I need to reflash the ECM? Will the bike run ok if I don't reflash?
A fuel controller is planned for the future, but it's outside of my price range right now.
Thanks for any advice you can offer. It is greatly appreciated! |
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Tourer
Posts: 341
West Salem, WI United States | I have the same setup, a 2013 with O2 sensors unplugged. I have added the timing wheel but nothing else.
I asked these same questions to Rylan Vos at the Vic Shop, and he told me to hold off on everything else until I could afford the PCV controller. More airflow will lean out your bike to much and you'll risk damage. Do the filters and the PCV at the same time, and I don't think you will need a reflash if you add the PCV. You 'might' be able to do the thrush mod without doing the PCV since the stock Vision pipes do flow well. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Rylan all so says set the wheel at +2 vision runs best at that setting.
As for the air filters your not going to see or feel any power increase. If you live is dusty country or ride dirt roads you would be better off with stock air filter.
Ness top and front filter let more air in witch means more dirt being let in |
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Tourer
Posts: 323
Troy, NY | Like said above....do those changes when you can afford the PCV or Lloydz fuel controller. With filters and fuel controller you will get about 8hp in the 3500+ RPM range and have better throttle response. The timing wheel will give you some low RPM power...I think a couple of HP. Well worth it in my opinion. When I get a new Vision I do all the upgrades again except use stock exhaust instead of S1L1....possible. Good luck! |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| do the wheel now you'll like. Adding air filters now will not do that much for you |
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | <p>Install that timing wheel, no reprogramming required. Mine is set at +3 degrees and only took about 1/2 hour to install. At least half of that time was scraping the old gasket off my engine and cover, it came off in pieces. Rylan has a how to video here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3_RjEdk5ZI</p><p>The Vision Lloydz air cleaner worked a treat for me but I did mine along with a PCV install and a dyno. I have no idea how it would have done without someone like Rylan to tune it. This is my before and after picture for that change.</p><p>[IMG]http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll251/Oldman1947/Bike/Dyno-800_zps7c59e087.jpg[/IMG]</p>
Edited by Oldman47 2014-12-30 7:06 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | BTW I still have the stock air filter in front. With the Lloydz filter on top I saw no reason to upgrade the stock filter. |
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | <p>Sorry, Dup post</p>
Edited by Oldman47 2014-12-30 7:08 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | I generally agree with all that has been said. Do the timing wheel now. Do the top filter and the fuel controller at the same time. If you add the top filter, the stock front filter is fine. If you live or ride in a dusty area, the stock paper front filter is preferable to the "performance" front filter. It will do a better job.
The Thrush mod won't change much but the sound--certainly no performance increase. The stock exhaust flows really well in the first place.
The Vision is restricted by intake, ECU programming, and cams. Adding more air flow (top filter) more fuel (fuel controller) and better flow management (cams) wakes them up. When you really want to go for the gold, get the cams and a rev limiter increase. The stock exhaust is fine for performance on a 106.
I've got cams and such and run the stock front filter with the stock exhaust. She's strong, quiet, and fast.
Ronnie |
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Cruiser
Posts: 92
Moncks Corner, SC United States | I keep hearing that the stock exhaust is fine with all the mods mentioned. I am seriously debating weather to remove the Atom Bombs and go back to stock pipes for while. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | Jimbo62 - 2015-01-01 1:14 AM
I keep hearing that the stock exhaust is fine with all the mods mentioned. I am seriously debating weather to remove the Atom Bombs and go back to stock pipes for while.
Why? If you already are using them and like the sound... leave them on. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | willtill - 2015-01-01 6:24 AM
Jimbo62 - 2015-01-01 1:14 AM
I keep hearing that the stock exhaust is fine with all the mods mentioned. I am seriously debating weather to remove the Atom Bombs and go back to stock pipes for while.
Why? If you already are using them and like the sound... leave them on.
Personally, I like the quiet of the stock exhaust on a full dress touring bike when covering a lot of miles. I find loud pipes to be tiring and annoying on longer rides. The Vision is a long distance bike.
The quiet exhaust also gives the bike a "stealth factor" because no one expects it to run like it does--looking and sounding as stock as it does.
My SC is loud. Too loud. It makes my ears ring in just a few miles. We have done long trips on it before the Vision. The Vision is keeping the stock exhaust.
As far as performance potential of the stock Vision exhaust goes, check Lloydz dyno pages. He pulled 135 HP out of a 116 Vision running through the stock exhaust.
Ronnie |
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Tourer
Posts: 341
West Salem, WI United States | rdbudd - 2015-01-03 8:57 AM The quiet exhaust also gives the bike a "stealth factor" because no one expects it to run like it does--looking and sounding as stock as it does. Right on, like that little plain jane chevy II with the big block lurking under the hood. The Vision is the perfect "sleeper" bike  |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 39
| I have an '08 and I installed the Lloydz top filter and timing wheel without a fuel controller this past fall, and I got pinging. Lloyd said it was the additional air. I was limited on funds at the time, he sold me a used VFC at a very fair discount and the problem was solved. Don't hesitate to email or call Lloydz, they have always replied to me in 48 hrs or less.
Long story short, don't add the top filter until you have a fuel controller. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | byufan - 2015-01-03 2:38 PM
I have an '08 and I installed the Lloydz top filter and timing wheel without a fuel controller this past fall, and I got pinging. Lloyd said it was the additional air. I was limited on funds at the time, he sold me a used VFC at a very fair discount and the problem was solved. Don't hesitate to email or call Lloydz, they have always replied to me in 48 hrs or less.
Long story short, don't add the top filter until you have a fuel controller.
You said you installed BOTH the timing wheel and top filter. And you got pinging.
Then you said don't add the top air filter until you get a VFC. But you conveniently left out the timing wheel in your statement. Which is a likely suspect for pinging; based upon what others here have posted; including myself... whom once used to have the timing wheel installed.
I unplugged my O2 sensors, installed a front performance air filter AND installed Lloydz top air filter previously... and did not get any pinging. I've since installed a Dobeck Gen3 EFI to ensure I was not too lean.
Edited by willtill 2015-01-03 6:58 PM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 39
| willtill - 2015-01-03 5:57 PM
byufan - 2015-01-03 2:38 PM
I have an '08 and I installed the Lloydz top filter and timing wheel without a fuel controller this past fall, and I got pinging. Lloyd said it was the additional air. I was limited on funds at the time, he sold me a used VFC at a very fair discount and the problem was solved. Don't hesitate to email or call Lloydz, they have always replied to me in 48 hrs or less.
Long story short, don't add the top filter until you have a fuel controller.
You said you installed BOTH the timing wheel and top filter. And you got pinging.
Then you said don't add the top air filter until you get a VFC. But you conveniently left out the timing wheel in your statement. Which is a likely suspect for pinging; based upon what others here have posted; including myself... whom once used to have the timing wheel installed.
I unplugged my O2 sensors, installed a front performance air filter AND installed Lloydz top air filter previously... and did not get any pinging. I've since installed a Dobeck Gen3 EFI to ensure I was not too lean.
I thought I made it clear that Lloyd diagnosed the ping to be from air. I was not intentionally leaving anything out as you inferred. |
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Performance upgrade questions
![[IMG]http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll251/Oldman1947/Bike/Dyno-800_zps7c59e087.jpg[/IMG]](http://s290.photobucket.com/user/Oldman1947/media/Bike/Dyno-800_zps7c59e087.jpg.html){kind=link}