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Tourer
Posts: 599
New Mexico | Quote: Two and a Half Men
Alan: (to Charlie) I ignore you at my own peril when it comes to women, liquor, and venereal disease.
Quote: Cap'n Nemo
I've waited years to get a ride like the Vision has, I'm not willing to change anytime soon. When folks say that the darkside rides different, but you'll "get used to it" says it is not the ride I want.
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Well, I have just over 300 miles on Bridgestone Petenza so thought I would give my impressions.
The Good - I like the stopping power. Around low-speed corners I never feel as though the bike will slide out from under me. It seems smoother. In town it handles different, but still fine. I like the look, and sometimes think/feel safer knowing there is more rubber on the road. And I'm sure saving $1000 on tires over the next 3-4 years is going to be a plus.
At one stop during the ride the parking lot was paved, but had embedded gravel on top.Thought might be a little goosey, but was fine. Then when I parked I put my foot down and realized the gravel was actually loose on top, but the new tire gave so much more stability I didn't even notice.
The Bad - I don't like how it handles at highway speeds. Or on grooved roads, or how it follows the contours of the road. Above 90mph the bike is not as stable, and above 100 I begin to get oscillations like the beginning of tank slapping. I will say it was very windy for much of the ride, but is windy like that every year around this time.
At one point I was passing a truck on a two lane road, and was testing the new tire limits. Another truck was in the oncoming lane, perhaps a bit too close. I pulled out to pass, and as I got past the truck the fierce side-winds hit me. The road also had a slight rut, so I really struggled to get the bike over into my lane, and cut it a little too close for my comfort. On the Elite 3 it would have been much easier.
Later I hit a stretch of road that made me think maybe I had a flat. I pulled over and checked the pressure, and all was good, but... When I took the bike off the kickstand the bike came over a little farther than normal, and surprised me by suddenly getting very heavy due to the tire being flat, then sidewall, without an in-between. Once shortly after I first received the bike I got kind of pinned with the rear tipovers. Being in the middle of nowhere and not wanting that to happen again I let it go and rolled out into the street with the grace of a 300lb gazelle. First time on the tipovers. Just walked the bike up as I have seen on the youtube videos without an issue and with no damage. And maybe more importantly no spectators.
I Loved the Vision ride, and ignored Cap'n Nemo's advice at my own peril.
The new ride is ok, but overall, for my riding style (70% highway) & location, I think the darkside might not have been my best choice. If I had more time (taking bike to Oklahoma shortly), and money was not a consideration, I would seriously consider returning to stock tires. Seeing as I don't, I will hope I "get used to it".
Edited by Boots 2011-05-13 3:52 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 494
Akron Ohio area | Riding from Ohio round trip to Alaska would be the only time I would consider going to the Darkside. |
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Tourer
Posts: 444
Bay of Gigs, WA | Thanks much for the objective update. Too often this discussion devolves into emotional speculation. I was seriously thinking about the darkside, and still am, but since most of my time is spent on the slab, tramlining would be a deal breaker. I look forward to more updates as you get more time in the saddle with the new car tire. Since bike tires wear flat and corner less, maybe the CT will "wear round" and corner better after some distance? |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Boots
give us your opinion when you get back from your trip.
Please |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | Boots - 2011-05-13 3:51 PM
Quote: Two and a Half Men
Alan: (to Charlie) I ignore you at my own peril when it comes to women, liquor, and venereal disease.
Quote: Cap'n Nemo
I've waited years to get a ride like the Vision has, I'm not willing to change anytime soon. When folks say that the darkside rides different, but you'll "get used to it" says it is not the ride I want.
I rarely get quoted for the good, so thanks boots. I reread that and it doesn't even seem like I wrote it, it sounds so good. I guess that's my story, and I'm sticking too it.
I am convinced that the darkside is not a bad thing, if it is your thing. A few naggers keeps me still from going there, aside from the ride. One, is the rim size and shape of the bead on the tire. Obviously not a real issue, but it seems it could form its own problems. Second, the air pressure, I'm sure 32 sounds like it, so that's ok, that's the recommended tire pressure for most passenger tires. Anything less may heat the sidewalls creating problems.
Overall, getting used to it would be the only thing I can see from stand point, but again, there's my problem.
Good on the rebound boots, sounds like you got it.
Edited by Cap'n Nemo 2011-05-13 9:21 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 401
| Boots,
Play with the tire pressure a bit. I found that the high speed ocillation was reduced when I bumped up the pressure.
Just because folks recommend a certain pressure, doesn't mean that pressure will work for you. A couple of pounds makes a big difference.
I'm still experimenting with pressure, to see if I can balance out the ride, and I'm doing it in small increments with long tests runs. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | I agree. Tire pressure is everything! It completely changes the feel of how it rides. This is my 2nd bike that I've gone darkside on. And for me I barely feel a difference at all. BTW I'm running 39 psi. |
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Tourer
Posts: 599
New Mexico | Will give the tire pressure a try. Shop started me out at 41-42, but yesterday dropped it down to 38 and MAYBE helped with stability. Was thinking about calling the shop to make sure they balanced the tires.
May just drop down to 32 and start moving up. I really want to be happy and feel safe with these.
Will update after trip, or if I discover something that works for me.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | Personally I just don't get it. The "Darkside" that is. The cost saving in tires is not worth my life. Motorcycle tires are compounded differently, and designed/engineered differently for very valid reasons, to create the sfest, best performing tire. If the Darkside was a safer, better performing tire choice it would not be called the darkside. This is not an emotional subject for me, but a logical one from a logical viewpoint. MOney may be the excuse, but you just bought a very expensive motorcycle and could have bought a cheaper one. The small savings in tires is NOT worth my life, or my legs, or any time in the ER. Nuff said!! Good Luck to those that choose this route. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | MaddMAx2u - 2011-05-14 11:46 AM Personally I just don't get it. The "Darkside" that is. The cost saving in tires is not worth my life. Motorcycle tires are compounded differently, and designed/engineered differently for very valid reasons, to create the sfest, best performing tire. If the Darkside was a safer, better performing tire choice it would not be called the darkside. This is not an emotional subject for me, but a logical one from a logical viewpoint. MOney may be the excuse, but you just bought a very expensive motorcycle and could have bought a cheaper one. The small savings in tires is NOT worth my life, or my legs, or any time in the ER. Nuff said!! Good Luck to those that choose this route. +1 |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA |
MaddMAx2u - 2011-05-14 1:46 PM
Personally I just don't get it. The "Darkside" that is. The cost saving in tires is not worth my life. Motorcycle tires are compounded differently, and designed/engineered differently for very valid reasons, to create the sfest, best performing tire. If the Darkside was a safer, better performing tire choice it would not be called the darkside. This is not an emotional subject for me, but a logical one from a logical viewpoint. MOney may be the excuse, but you just bought a very expensive motorcycle and could have bought a cheaper one. The small savings in tires is NOT worth my life, or my legs, or any time in the ER. Nuff said!! Good Luck to those that choose this route.
At one time people sailed the ocean knowing they could fall off the edge of he earth. They knew this for a fact... Absolutely unsafe! To do so was a death wish.....
( just tease'n) |
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Cruiser
Posts: 258
Akron, Ohio | Boots, I for one really like the Darkside and find the bike VERY stable at freeway speeds up to triple digets. In my case the bike does not follow the grooves. I would have to ask what your front tire is and the pressure you are running it at. Also what about your suspension pressure? I really think if you play around with a few adjustments one at a time, you will find the magic set up and really enjoy the darkside on the slab. JMHO
Just for info, I run 38PSI front and rear.
Edited by handyhiker 2011-05-14 5:31 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 154
Cabot Arkansas | I have been running darkside for over 10,000 miles on this tire ,still looks like new, stability up to 120 mph speed limiter shutoff is excellent.Yes it is a LITTLE different than the E3 was,just like the 260 on my Jackpot was different than the 180 on my wifes kingpin was.Is it for everyone? NO.But it works really well for me .Half the price of the E3 better traction in straight line and the rain and stopping.Last's at least 3 times longer than the E3's
I had before.I have had NO issues's other than the tire DOES follow the ruts in the road more than the E3 did.If you are not comfortable with the car tire don't run it,but for MANY people over thousand's of mile's it works great .Only you know what you are comfortable with and everyone should decide for themselves.But for me the positive's outweigh the negatives. |
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Tourer
Posts: 599
New Mexico | handyhiker - 2011-05-14 4:30 PM
Boots, I for one really like the Darkside and find the bike VERY stable at freeway speeds up to triple digets. In my case the bike does not follow the grooves. I would have to ask what your front tire is and the pressure you are running it at. Also what about your suspension pressure? I really think if you play around with a few adjustments one at a time, you will find the magic set up and really enjoy the darkside on the slab. JMHO
Just for info, I run 38PSI front and rear.
Well, that is encouraging. I really enjoy cranking it up to 110+ on these wide open New Mexico roads.
I have the radial Elite 3 stock tire on the front (new).
Currently both front and rear at 38.
Suspension pressure is at 60, and keep it between 60-66
Planning on tweaking the pressure around and seeing if anything works better. I started high because I don't want that 'mushy' feeling I have read about at the lower pressures, but going to give it a try.
I am starting to wonder if my tires are properly balanced.
Edited by Boots 2011-05-14 9:07 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | Tire and suspension pressure adjustments can be felt. In my case although higher suspension pressure worked fine on the HWY too much caused the bike to react to steel grated bridges pretty severely. With the correct pressures the bike reacts much less to wind, its weird, I can fell the winds effect on the bike but it doesn't have a tendency to cause the bike to steer from the rear as with a M/C tire ( best way I can describe it). |
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Cruiser
Posts: 58
Northwest Ohio | I finally got my potenza after waiting since january. I only have aprox 200 miles on it. Yes it wasn't the same as the e-3 and I didn't expect it to be. After reading about tire preasures since jan. I started with 36 psi. I had my reservations as everyone else has about a car tire on a motorcycle. To me it's not any different than a jackpot or vrod muscle with the wide rear tire. So far I'm happy with my choice. Do I think my life is in danger? No! If you have owned many bikes you can honestly say they all didn't ride the same. Rake and trail mean alot. I took alot of bullshit for running this tire. These same people are so courious about it though it's not funny. There are still those who will pay 250+ every 10.000 miles depending on the way they ride for a new MC tire and say that's the norm and now I'm safe bla bla bla. Read up people! Do your research! Do what you want but for me so far it seems like the wise choice. I would not put one on my jackpot but for my vision it's just fine. $115 shipped from tire rack.
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Cruiser
Posts: 258
Akron, Ohio | Boots
I would really like to know what you think of the ride if you set the shock pressure to specs. I know a lot of folks set them with extra pressure. I run mine at 25 psi. Might be worth a try. |
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Tourer
Posts: 599
New Mexico | handyhiker - 2011-05-15 2:43 PM
Boots
I would really like to know what you think of the ride if you set the shock pressure to specs.
At 250lbs I like to run pretty high pressures so shock at 66. With tire at 36 was good two up, but tested by myself with same results. Going to call shop tomorrow or Wed and see about whether they balanced the tire, and getting it rebalanced. Was also thinking about the dynabeads, but not as keen on them.
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Cruiser
Posts: 215
orrick, mo | I usually run my shock pressure around 45psi and the tire at 36psi. I run the dynabeads also. This set up works real well for me. Its the best feel for me. Ive ridden about 26000 miles now on the VV on the darkside.
The tire will change as it breaks in. The more miles you have on it the better it feels in twisties and straights.
I've had the bike up to 122 and it was just as smooth as ever. It is amazing how a few psi will change the feel though . Too much and the bike it wobbley and not enough mushy But when its right damn it is great.
So Its safe to say as long as I'm still riding a VV I will be on the darkside. I feel safer riding on the darkside and i'm sure its most just mental but i like having the larger contact patch out back.
Ride safe all.  |
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Tourer
Posts: 599
New Mexico | Ok, this is possibly my final update.
Rear tire was out of balance. So far, all good up to 100mph. Have high confidence problem with instability is solved.
Overall, I am ok with my darkside decision. The ride is different, but ok. Like changing from Dunlop to Metz - Is different with pluses and minuses.
Biggest adjustment has been mentioned before - For example, when I turned right in the past I would 'relax' my left arm, and just think turn right and the bike would. With the darkside tire relaxing for a turn allowed road grooves, ruts, etc to give a very unstable ride, especially at high speeds. Now I have to make a positive movement, pushing the right handlebars. When I do that, all is stable, all is good.
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Cruiser
Posts: 258
Akron, Ohio | Glad you found the problem. Thou it is a shame it was not balanced from the start. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| MaddMAx2u - 2011-05-14 1:46 PM
Personally I just don't get it. The "Darkside" that is. The cost saving in tires is not worth my life. Motorcycle tires are compounded differently, and designed/engineered differently for very valid reasons, to create the sfest, best performing tire. If the Darkside was a safer, better performing tire choice it would not be called the darkside. This is not an emotional subject for me, but a logical one from a logical viewpoint. MOney may be the excuse, but you just bought a very expensive motorcycle and could have bought a cheaper one. The small savings in tires is NOT worth my life, or my legs, or any time in the ER. Nuff said!! Good Luck to those that choose this route.
Well said! +1 |
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Darkside Review and Tip-Over Club
