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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| Hi Guys,
I've been looking at buying a new Vision lately. This weekend the local dealer here had the Victory demo bikes available so I took the opportunity to take a few test rides Friday and Saturday. Today I took my wife by and took her for a ride as well. Just a little background: I've had a lot of bikes, 45 to be exact all of which are listed here. Currently I have a '08 BMW R1200GS and a '09 Harley Street Glide that I converted into a Road Glide. I've put a ton of dough into the Harley but I can't seem to get rid of the buffeting completely or get the suspension reasonable. Not that I haven't tried during the last 20K miles! Other than those problems, I really like the Harley but buffeting and a lousy ride are quickly becoming deal breakers. The first two things I noticed about the Vision were the complete lack of buffeting and the fantastic ride quality. Last week I rented a Goldwing for a day and found it's suspension to be the best I've ever experienced on a bike and the Vision is damn near as good. The main problem with the Honda is that it has as much character as a refrigerator. Boring! There are a couple of hurdles to get over before I can make the switch to a Vision and here is where I would appreciate some feedback. Design Ok, the Vision is something special from a design standpoint. I'm sure this has been discussed over and over. Either you like it or you don't. For me the design is a bit over the top as it comes. One of the bikes they had at the demo ride was a Vision 8 Ball. This I could live with so the idea would be to take a Tourer and make it look like an 8 Ball by blacking a lot of the light color panels out and removing the trunk except for really long trips, etc. In that way I still get cruise and all of the other goodies the Tourer comes with in a more muted package. Has anybody else tried this and if so, do you have any pics or comments? I took a look at the Cross Country but I've had a handlebar mounted fairing before and I'm not crazy about them. Besides that, I really don't want to have to deal with buffeting again and even with lowers there was some over 70 mph on the demo bike I rode.
Engine Harshness As you know, the Harley engine is rubber mounted. Other than bouncing all over the place at idle it is extremely smooth once under way. It's really a pleasant engine to rev hard which I like to take advantage of. I run a stock exhaust on a kitted 103 engine that has a tuned PCV. The Vision 106 engine gave a completely different feeling. When I would accelerate even slightly it has this harshness and noise that wasn't pleasant at all. Its got gobs of power particularly at higher RPM where the Harley kinda dies but the noise, vibration and harshness didn't make it conducive to run hard. This is the hurdle I'm having the most trouble with. The dealer tells me that given some higher mileage, a freer breathing exhaust and some tuning would smooth it out but I'm not so sure. First off, I like my bikes quiet so I'd rather not install a noisier set of cans if I can help it. Secondly, I'm not convinced the harshness is so much a result of the tuning but more to do with the engine being hard mounted in the frame and surrounded by noise focusing plastic. Have you found that the engine smooths out over time or that it becomes less harsh with tuning? Or do you just get used to it or not notice it at all? Any suggestions? Leg Heat I've had some pretty uncomfortable days on the Harley so heat is an issue I'm used to dealing with. Looking at the design of the Vision it seems that getting the heat out on a hot day at slow speeds could be a challenge. The demo bike had the clear plastic lowers installed which would probably take care of the problem at speed but what do you guys do when its hot and you get stuck in traffic? Is it an issue or just an inconvenience? I'm in SoCal and it can get pretty hot here. I read one post about modifying/venting the inner fairing. Any opinions or results concerning that idea?
Other than these hurdles I'm ready to go for it. Any insight would be very much appreciated!
Thanks, Marc
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Edited by marcparnes 2010-03-14 9:53 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | Marc:
I'm going to work backwards through your list.
Leg heat:
I normally wear a pair of Chippewa Rally boots ( http://www.chippewaboots.com/boots/rally/27862). These are 12" tall uppers and padded around the leg; the padding acts like an insulator. I never notice the heat that other people complain about and as a result have not put the lowers on my bike. My Electra-glide with lowers was IMO a good bit warmer than the Vision especially when stuck in traffic; then the heat from the rear cylinder head would damn near roast me. It was very uncomfortable. My un-faired R75 gets very warm at stoplights.
Engine Harshness:
I don't really have a lot of modern comparisons to draw on. I feel that the Victory 106 freedom engine is a significant improvement in terms of noise, tractability, and power over the 80CI rubber mounted EVO, and as to vibration its about the same as my SWB R75. On the HD I installed Balancemasters mercury balancers on the clutch basket and the compensator to cut down on the vibration with pretty good results and my mirrors actually became readable between 2500 and 3000 rpm. As to the noise factor I have to admit that my hearing is less than perfect after 40 years on bikes and I've never really noticed any harshness. The bike shifts better and seems quieter when the oil is fresh.
Design:
I consider the electric adjustable windshield is a must. I'm a little over 6'4" and have found that comfort and wind management on this bike are as good as I have ever found. I have added a laminar lip to the stock height shield and it works for me very well by allowing me to keep the shield in a lower position and maintaining the angle in a more aerodynamic position. Handling and suspension are superb even when loaded with gear passenger and fuel. My HD would try to drive your spine through the top of your helmet and handled like it had a hinge in the middle when loaded. The Bags are less friendly than the HDs top loading bags but about the same amount of usable space. THe trunk is larger but a little less usable than the HD tour-pack. The GPS being a separate unit is much better than either the HD or Goldwing from the standpoint of usability and keeping maps updated adding waypoints routes etc.
The only place that I think the Vision is lacking over its competition is in the area of aftermarket accessories, although this is improving and there are significantly more options available than when I bought my 2008.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 763
Anderson, IN (48mi NE of downtown Indianapolis) | Design
I think your idea of starting with a full tourer and removing the trunk and blacking it out is the best way to go. As you stated, you get all the goodies of the premium model and can replace the trunk when needed. I remove my trunk every Sunday night for riding to work. Friday night it goes back on for the gf. Several have blacked out their Visions. You can find pics by searching this forum.
Engine Harshness
I like my bikes quiet too. I like to hear the tunes. After 15k miles my engine runs exactly the same as new. The motor noise is a bit different than most bikes, but it never really bothered me. Maybe because the music is always louder. The only harshness I have never gotten used to is the shifting. The Vision is the hardest shifting bike I have ever ridden. All in all, though, I am very happy with the motor.
Leg Heat
No problem with the lower deflectors. They work good. They are the best money I have spent on the bike. Search this forum for "Deflectors". There has been a lot of discussion on them. I think everyone agrees they drive away the heat in the summer and keep legs warm in winter. The question is NOT whether or not to get them. The question is metal or plastic. I got the Victory brand plastic ones and they have been trouble free. Others claim metal aftermarket ones are better. I'm sure this forum will give you enough info to choose the ones that will best suit you.
A side note regarding heat: The electric windshield is very handy at managing heat between slow and fast traffic (Easy on-the-fly adjustment). The stock upper deflectors help somewhat too, but are a bit more cumbersome to adjust while moving.
Hope this helps. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | The Vision looks different and it is different. The comments I receive are almost all positive. Add 20 minutes to any gas stop you make to answer the questions you will get.
It is a choice to make....buffeting or engine noise.
After I bought my Vision, I was concerned about the "Drive Train Noise" and I could not wait to get to 5th gear to make it shut up.
Then I started thinking about what I am hearing and why am I hearing it.
The closest thing I can relate to riding a Vision is driving a convertible with the top down.
The fairing blocks so much wind that raising the windshield can cause back pressure on your upper body. You hear the engine and gear noise because you can. When going 45 in 4th gear your head and ears are in a pocket of still air and you can hear every noise the engine makes.
Plus, the engine noise comes up the triple tree area right to your head. That area has the metal of the gas tanks to channel the noise straight up. Unlike almost every other bike on the planet, there is no fuel tank is in the way of the noise. The fuel tank on other bikes pushes the noise to the sides of the bike not up.
Guys and gals here can tell you that the drive train is solid. Some members here have over 65,000 miles on their Visions and have never had a running gear come flying out the side of the engine.
As far as Victory goes...Roadkill has over 200,000 miles on his 99 Victory.
If your HD had a fairing like the Vision's you would hear that engine as well. Many here recommend turning up the radio.
I recommend the lower deflectors. Last year San Antonio had 59 days with 100 degree weather. I ride to work almost every day and survived to well enough to post this today.
In stopped traffic and air cooled thumping V-Twin will make heat....regardless who builds the bike. If you are in a lot of stop and go traffic wear leather from the knees down.
Below are the boots I wear.
Chippewa Harness Boots Mens 12 Inch Black Oiled Snip Toe
http://www.metboots.com/c-chippewa-motorcycle-boots-brand-p-CH-2786...
http://www.metboots.com/c-chippewa-motorcycle-boots-brand.html
Ride Safe!
Edited by radioteacher 2010-03-15 1:02 AM
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Cruiser
Posts: 50
| Very impressive! 45 bikes eh! Not many people here can dream up a magical review of the Vision to sway you to ownership. (IMHO) It's either yes or no. My 2 cents is that the Vision is at its best on the open road. If you're in traffic a lot, might I suggest using the BMW. (Nice to have options. Lucky you!!) The Vision is not for everyone. If you're having trouble convincing yourself to pull the trigger, maybe it's not the right time. Maybe wait for the 2011 models. Who knows, they might come up with designs that address all these issues.
I absolutely love my Vision. Quirks and all!!  |
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | Welcome Marc, Well, you've cleared the #1 hurdle and come to grips with the looks. Design - This guy has a fantastic blacked out Vision - http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/photos/photo-thumbnails.asp?albumid=167 Engine harshness - I keep telling myself the tranny was built by Caterpillar. Preloading the shifter helps with the clunkiness. Breaks in like a BMW - around 20,000 miles. The fairing really amplifies the noise. I traded rides with a friend of mine one day (Bandit 1250S) and when I would pull up next to the Vision, I could not hear any of the noises that sounded so obvious from the drivers seat. The Stage1/Level 1 exhaust was extremely mellow. Even taking the trunk off makes a difference in what you will hear from the drivers seat. Leg Heat - I'm guessing you don't like the looks of the lowers (stuck on) but they are really functional. This guy cut away his inner fairing and is happy with the results. http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1569&posts=23&highlight=cooler&highlightmode=1 Good luck and don't be afraid to add to the knowledge of this forum. You obviously have a lot of background experience to offer. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| Thanks for all the input guys. I'm going to go by the dealer today and see what I can work out. I had some correspondence with the factory yesterday and it seems they're open to building a blacked out Tourer to some extent. I'll let you know how it works out.
Thanks again,
Marc |
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Visionary
Posts: 1350
| I was at the bike show in MA last Saturday and MOMs has started renting Victorys. I you can't talk the dealer into a weekend demo ride maybe 1 day demo and 1 rental if they rent?
The other thing you might try is swapping bikes with someone that has Vision? I take your BMW, you take my Vision and we pay for any damage if..
I think the more time you get in the saddle the more you will like the Vision. I did 5 demo rides to make sure it was right for me. Does your dealer have a Vision with lowers?
I took my trunk off and the sounds I hear are different than with it on, like wearing or not wearing a helmet.
Hope this helps. I do love my Vision but the XC is a nice bike too. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | Marc, very impressive listing of owned motorcycles. You have ridden a lot types, makes, styles of motorcycles in the last 50 years. WOW, and you have spent a ton of money on these scooters. If you get the Vision, it is going to be just like any other motorcycle, it is not perfect. Some of the bikes you had were leading edge in design and function, and they were not perfect at the time, but later on developed into a better motorcycle. So if you get the Vision, remember, it is not a perfect motorcycle, it is just a very good motorcycle, and as #46 it will be a nice compliment to your growing list. Also, sorry about you loosing your friend... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| VisionTex - 2010-03-16 9:45 AM Marc, very impressive listing of owned motorcycles. You have ridden a lot types, makes, styles of motorcycles in the last 50 years. WOW, and you have spent a ton of money on these scooters. If you get the Vision, it is going to be just like any other motorcycle, it is not perfect. Some of the bikes you had were leading edge in design and function, and they were not perfect at the time, but later on developed into a better motorcycle. So if you get the Vision, remember, it is not a perfect motorcycle, it is just a very good motorcycle, and as #46 it will be a nice compliment to your growing list. Also, sorry about you loosing your friend... That's very true. I haven't had a perfect bike yet. That's for sure. 50 years! Yikes, I had to go back and do the math.. a little scary to say the least  Marc |
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Cruiser
Posts: 99
Cold lake Alberta | Well I had a beautiful 06 Street Glide and now shes gone for my 09 Vision Tour premium that has a LOT of extra black on her and more to come.
I equate the 106 motor to the HD softtail line in that its a counterbalanced motor.. you need to feel some vibration on a twin...the motor will get quieter later I am told, so far mine is fine although I just got it out from winter storeage.
It has the S1L1 (stage1) mufflers, filter and gatlin tips..just enough growl when you get on her!
The lowers work well, I have the metal ones from CYL:E OPS and they work well to get the heat out or keep it in.
Just go for it...oh and BTW the buffeting on your Street glide??? same on the XC. Thats why i went to the vision in the end myself. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| and BTW the buffeting on your Street glide??? same on the XC. Thats why i went to the vision in the end myself. Yep, I rode one of the XC bikes and felt the same thing. That was enough to turn me off on it. After you've messed around with buffeting on a Harley you'll neer want to go through it again! Marc
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 13
Lebanon, PA | I sold my Ultra for my 2008 Vision. Those huge floorboards let you move your feet around to get away from that front cylinder heat. You really don't feel it under your butt like you do on a Harley. Engine noise on the Victory engines bothered me too, almost to the point of not buying one. It doesn't seem to bother me any more. I guess you notice because it's different at first. The Vision is the best bike I've ever been on and I'd get another if I had to do it over again. Unless I missed something....I could swear Victory if offering a Vision 8 Ball(blacked out version). |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| SaintHowie - 2010-03-16 11:23 AM Unless I missed something....I could swear Victory if offering a Vision 8 Ball(blacked out version). They are but its a stripped version. No radio, heated grips, heated seats, electric shield, ABS, trunk, etc. Seems like they kind of missed the mark by not offering the extra content at least as an option. Marc
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Questions from a Prospective Buyer-Long
