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Iron Butt
Posts: 904
29 Palms California | As I understand what a voltage regulator does, is regulate the voltage, which means it should stay just above 14 or in one spot with some sort of regularity. I'm no machanic, but I did have wiring issues (of course) with my 2003 eglide, and once the issue(s) were resolved, I stayed at +/- 14. I had a bad ground connection on the eglide. Then I had a bad wire to my front injector (inside the insulation), then just a bad connection to the battery. As you can see, I had trouble shot thru the wazzu, and ended up brain stroming with a mech to find everything but the front injector wire. It cost me a large amount of money to make these "shop" calls. I'm hoping someone can accually get this fixed due the potentially danger of this issue. I know the advanced electronics and wiring on the Vision tax the battery, which I hope is the problem, just replacing the battery. To date, I had the upgraded Voltage regulator (under warrenty) installed, which unless it is also malfunctioning, is not the problem. I'm waiting to hear if anyone changed to a new battery and shows no voltage drops / fluxuations. Like I said I'm no mechanic, but I understand voltage regulation and that parts job to ensure there is no fluxuation in voltage. If my volts are suppose to drop and rise, I guess I would call it a Variable Voltage something or other. Just saying..anyone replace the battery yet and show no flux in your voltage? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | Both the Vision and my eglide, at idle, fall between 13-12 volts. Not enough rpm to bring the charging system to 100% output. Off idle and cruising 14v+. Since I turned off the trunk light and fully charged the original Vision battery, no problems. Routinely, at idle, on the Vision, volts are just above 12, still no problem. A fully charged battery is going to require less voltage to maintain at full capacity. Theoreticly the battery is only needed for starting. Once running the generator becomes the main voltage source, the battery becomes just another load on the system. If a battery requires too much voltage to maintain its charge while running it can rob voltage needed to run accessories and engine management. Once running the vehicle should be able to operate without a battery. Unfortunately the regulator needs the reference voltage of the battery to maintain proper generator output. General rule, generator output will rarely go above 2v of measured battery voltage. Quick battery load test-start and shutdown motor 6 times in a row. If starter starts to labor toward the end, battery may need charged or replaced. After starting and stopping 6 time let bike sit for about 10 hrs and try to start. If starter labors battery needs attention. If not, battery is probably okay. Main purpose of the battery, get the motor running. Battery is a storage device, you have to put volts in before you can take volts out. Take out more volts than you put in and battery will eventually go dead. Modern vehicles use milliamps of voltage to maitain memory and such, even when vehicle isnt running and sitting for long periods of time the chemicals in the battery start to separate also. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | Since I've had the Stage 1 Level 1 installed and when reflashed the throttle response is better, so blip of the throttle is more responsive. Maybe others have noticed this also? As I stated before, when I picked up my Vision at the dealer the battery was dead, when reflashed a couple weeks ago the battery went low again because they had to keep the key on when doing the reflash, did take long either. I think the battery in the Vision maybe a little small in capacity, we will see what the future brings. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 904
29 Palms California | My Eglide stayed at +/- 14 after all the fixing. All my bikes prior to the Vision, retained the propper voltage, with no voltage fluxuation. No motorized vehicle I've ever owned, when the system is working correctly, has had the voltmeter even move a smidge.
..guess I should ask Vtwin if they will give me a bigger better battery? Do you see were I'm going here? Why should I have to even consider getting a better battery if the one that came with the bike isn't a propper one? I have read on this site, and others, that this voltage issue isn't just mine, since Victory already put out the "upgraded" voltage regulator? I'm still extremely please with the looks and very happy with the performance. The only thing that I have issue with, is the voltage fluxuation, which shouldn't happen. What concerns me even more, is that it will drop so low as to cut the engine off under certain driving situations. I should be able to drive it like I stole it, and not have to worry about cutting out,,,ever. (even though I'm a conservative rider now) Who has the correct answer here? Altering riding style is not an acceptable answer, and is probably the most dangerous thing anyone could say. Anyone know what Victory has to say on the issue? I've only cut out 3x in just over 2k miles. Thats 2x's to many. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I share my experience and come to the conclusions that I come to in hopes it will help someone else. Coming from a flat four on a Goldwing to a V-Twin I had to learn some basic dynamics. When I first started experiencing the cut-out problems and read of the voltage regulator problem, I took it to the dealer. They went over the bike and I trust them to know what they are doing. Their conclusion was no voltage, charging on regulating problems. I described what I was doing, the cracking throttle thing and rolling the throttle at the light. They reminded me that this is closed loop fuel injection computer controlled system, and did not require the carberated way of doing thing. I even talked to another tech at another dealer and described what happened and what I did and the said the same thing. I realized the rolling on the throttle and cracking the throttle was just a habit and served no good purpose in a computerized fuel injection system, so I stopped a bad habit. Now I can ride it like I stole it without a hitch, so I am satisfied I was creating my own dangerous situation by my habit and changed. If it was to experience the shutting off situation again I will be the first one to take it to the dealer or park it and have them come and get it. I hope this helps. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | I agree with you buckeye except, 3x is 3 x too many. A lot of new cars, the computer adjusts voltage output to reduce load on the engine.
Just enough to keep things running. I dont think Visions are that advanced. If your voltage is dropping below 12 at any time the bike is running theres a problem. Maybe the updated regulator has a defect, cured one problem but created another, could happen.
In the late 80's early 90's GM had what they called prom season. Many of the new cars were set to run so lean to pass fed emission standards. Caused a lot of drivability problems. A few months later they would release a richer calibration that eliminated most. One of those loop holes that corpate lawyers get payed big bucks to figure out.
I have a feeling Victory assumes that 90% of buyers will spring for stage/level package which Im sure cures most of the drivability problems of the stock setup. Some we are probably not even aware of. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 904
29 Palms California | Just to clearify, I stopped the "cracking of the throttle", which still shouldn't cause the engine to cut out. (my Eglide had EFI also). With that being said, yes that stopped the cutouts at the lights. Now, if im going up to speed and have to stop more suddenly than normal, I'm looking at serious drops (like I'm cracking the throttle) in voltage and possible stall. It sounds like there is an issue the techs can't figure out. The "step up" voltage reg. might be faulty. I'm O.K. with cruising the way it is now until someone comes up with a REAL answer. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | Sounds like your working with the techs an I'm sure the problem will be resolved. In an ealier post you commented that your voltage drops to 9v, does that still happen? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | Keep on them or they will assume everythings okay. You may have more of an engine control problem than a voltage problem. The motor comming to an almost stall condition may bring engine rpm low enough to reduce alternator output. Next time you take it in dont mention the voltage problem. Just tell them about the stalls and it might take them in a diffrent diagnostic direction. Curing the stall might fix your voltage problem. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 904
29 Palms California | yes it still happens. At quick stops and so forth. 3x's so far. I watch for it, and try and apply slow steady twist to get the volts back up to operational ranges. Any schooled up techs on here? I know I'm not the only one that has this issue, and as I mentioned, it's easy to live with, I just preffer not to. CJ, I was told by the shop, that they would call me when they had an answer to the Gas Guage, and Temp Guage. No call yet. I might bug them for ideas on answers tomorrow. As you know, I'm 180miles from the nearest dealer that I can rely on, so I can't just drop in and have them give it the once over. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | BUCKEYE - 2008-01-17 11:04 PM
yes it still happens. At quick stops and so forth. 3x's so far. I watch for it, and try and apply slow steady twist to get the volts back up to operational ranges.
Is your idle speed up, it may not be set properly and getting to low when causing the voltage to drop to 9v, that is really low. I believe idle speed should be around 900-1000 rpm. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 904
29 Palms California | i have to say the voltage drop varies. I think you might be on to something. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 904
29 Palms California | it's a consistant drop, but rarely below 10. as you know, she'll definetly stall lower than that. Hmmm. Idle may have to get set highier. I'm so far away from the shop, that these ideas come in handy. I would have to spend the night if they worked on my scoot longer than 5 hours. |
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Tourer
Posts: 354
20 miles west of Chicago. | Just read the last few posts in this thread and started wondering. I believe the on board computer is programmed to momentarily cut off the fuel supply to the injectors when the throttle is closed quickly, to reduce emisions. I was wondering if suddenly letting off the throttle on deceleration, or as occurrs when 'blipping' the throttle, might not cause a momentary fuel starvation or way-lean condition, which might take a moment for the fuel system, and therefore the engine, to recover from. This might cause the engine to falter momentarily, possibly to the point where the motor comes very close to stalling, or in fact does stall. This also might cause the engine speed to drop to the point where the alternator fails to generate enough voltage, causing a drop in the voltage meter reading, and also effecting the spark, and a resultant drop in manifold pressure, further increasing the possibility of an engine stall, or near stall. Just wondering, like I said; could be dead wrong.
Edited by Mudge 2008-01-19 2:05 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | I think Mudge is on to something. My bike stalled a couple of times with the stock exhaust (thought it was just part of the break-in) but has run perfectly since Stage 1/Level 1 install. It really ran on the edge of lean when stock. Great gas mileage though. Stock exhaust with spring/summer temps should get MPG's around 50 easily. My voltage readout is also rock steady with the S1/L1 change. (I didn't notice anything obviously wrong with the voltage when stock though.) It feels like everything is just not working so hard to maintain a balance. Mileage went down about 10% but the bike just starts easier and breathes easier. I personally don't feel an increase in power from the seat of the pants (stock felt great) but the bike just feels like it's not even trying now. Mine idles at exactly 1000rpm. |
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Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | I thought this had been covered elsewhere also.. but I have heard two plausible explanations to the stalling-when-coming-off-idle- thing
a. Because the bikes are running so lean, any "blipping" of the throttle is essentially "flooding" it just enough to stall it when you leave the stop.
b. The other explanation, and more likely maybe is the exact opposite. After being ridden for any length of time at speed, the bike is nice and warm, air flowing etc... you come to a stop... like at the end of an exit ramp or intersection. The engine is hot enough, and again because they are so lean from the factory, that when you go to take off, the engine is starved.
As far as looking at the battery, that was to rule out other electrical issues such as charging and such. |
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Tourer
Posts: 447
Cleveland, GA | I haven't noticed any problems like it with my stock setup. My bike constantly produces between 13.5 and 14.5 volts, even while running the HID light, headlight on bright, heated handgrips and seat on, GPS and radio on, idling in traffic. Buckeye, could your problem have anything to do with the way your bike complies with California emission regulations? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 80
Richmond, Texas | Posted Twice -- sorry.
Edited by Byrdman 2008-02-05 11:35 AM
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Cruiser
Posts: 80
Richmond, Texas | I have had this problem since I bought the bike. Now its starting to do it even more. They say they have replaced the regulator already. I also have an oil leak coming from the back jug near the exhaust port. Its almost like a spray. Either way, I am pissed that I spent 28K on a bike that's not running right.
I want my Valkyrie back!!!
Edited by Byrdman 2008-02-05 11:35 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 904
29 Palms California | byrdman, easy...back away from the valkyrie,,,your alright brother. Don't do anything rash...it will be O. K.!! You have the warrenty, and yes you may feel a bit remiss, but you h-a-v-e the warrenty. The shop should fix you up....unfortunatley, they don't have quick answers to problems on this new bike. It's a new production..you will be O. K....now drink a beer and get back in there and fight! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | Aaaahhh YES, I can see the BuckSter has adapted the level headed, calm approach to life's little issues!!!! You ARE the man!!  |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | He's like the weather, give him a sec, and he'll change. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 904
29 Palms California | cj-oh-heck-no, I'm level headed...most of the time...um. yeah. I forgot, you've witnessed my madness. Pay NO attention to that man behind the curtain! For the record, I couldn't imagine going back to the HD. I don't know how you do it cj. Then again, you probably have some bones dropped into the old girl. I can't believe tweety bird blasphemed with hate and discontent. I hope it was a moment of weakness, and he mans up. I mean, who doesn't know a new production (anything) won't have a few glitches? Then again he did pay 28k...I guess he got the gold plated stereo bezzles and they added more frequency grease to his radio? 28k? Seriously, who pays that much for a bike that has an oil leak? Oh, the warrenty will cover that? hmmmm where is my receipt? |
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Strange thing just happened
