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Iron Butt
Posts: 732
Western WA | Okay folks, here's the story.
Took the bike in a while back and they replaced the plugs. (Yes, I made sure they did.)
Man! The bike ran like I always new it could. Plenty of power, no 'boggy' feeling, it was wonderful.
Coming back from a long trip, and halfway up a mountain pass and the bike starts running rough and back to the 'boggy' feeling on acceleration.
I think I may have had a bad tank of gas. It happens. Ran 3 more tanks with a trusted source and no improvement.
I pulled the plugs and they were black and sooty. This was with about 1000 miles on them.
So I replaced the plugs.
Running a bit smoother, but not much.
So, two questions:
1. Why would it be running so rich? And why would it happen suddenly? Literally in the space of a few miles. I've read all the threads and don't let the bike sit and idle, nor do I blip the throttle.
2. What is the correct gap? Is it .032 or .036?
I'm heading out on a long trip in a few days and really need to get this resolved. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | the gap I believe is .030 - .032 by the book, I believe, but that wouldn't make it run sooty.
I've not pulled my plugs since fixing the exhaust leaks, but that is the way mine were everytime I pulled them when I had the exhaust leaks. The motor runs a lot leaner now, with a slightly better gas mileage, but the heat is the big difference. I need to pull my plugs to confirm, but my guess is they would be clean.
It could be something else, but I don't know what... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1117
Northeast Ohio | One troubleshooting step you could do would be to take it to a bike dyno and have them measure your AFRs (Air Fuel Ratio). That would tell you definitively if you are rich or not.
What octane fuel are you running? If you are truly running rich and don't have time to get it to the dealership before your trip, you could step it back to a lower octane until you can get it into the dealership. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 732
Western WA | I've been running 92. That's a good idea to back it down.
I went and re-gapped the plugs to .032 and cleaned the air filter.
Running better for the moment but we will see after a tank or so of gas. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 732
Western WA | I've been reading your ordeal with the exhaust leak Varyder. I hope it isn't that but I'm beginning to suspect that it is.
varyder - 2009-08-11 12:26 PM
the gap I believe is .030 - .032 by the book, I believe, but that wouldn't make it run sooty.
I've not pulled my plugs since fixing the exhaust leaks, but that is the way mine were everytime I pulled them when I had the exhaust leaks. The motor runs a lot leaner now, with a slightly better gas mileage, but the heat is the big difference. I need to pull my plugs to confirm, but my guess is they would be clean.
It could be something else, but I don't know what... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1117
Northeast Ohio | Are the plugs in nice and tight? Sooty plugs can be caused from air entering the combustion chamber at the plug area too. Something easy to check.
Also, just pay extra attention to pre-ignition after you back down the octane. If you are unfamiliar with the sound, I best describe it as BBs being dropped into a coffee can. If it were to happen, it would be under load like higher rpm at full throttle (can happen with less than full load too). I used to have a highly modified turbocharged tuner car and know how catastrophic detonation / pre-ignition can be.
I think there is probably more than enough fuel there to run 87 or 89 without any ping on a S1L1 setup. Heck, I had to run 87 on the way back from NC because that is all this little gas station had. I had no issues on that tank.
Maybe KevinX or Lloyd can confirm. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 177
| I took mine into the dealer just last week and he thought that it was an exhaust leak that caused my front cyclinder to run rich. Well after checking it out he could find nothing. He asked me about my riding habbits. The one thing i took from our conversation was that it is critical for the bike to come up to operating temp. before riding. He recommended that if the bike has sat and cooled for awile to let it run for 4-5 minutes, you know when your ready to ride to start it and let it idle before backing out of garage and putting gear on etc. He said that was the number one recomendation from the factory and the factory tech that he deals with, let the bike come up to riding temp. You should not be able to keep your hand on the cyclinders. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | blue, I would like to know what he meant that he found nothing on the exhaust leak, did he pull your header pipes? Mine told me that could find nothing also and did not think there was an exhaust leak. When I pulled the pipes myself and found the cruddy ends I knew it had been leaking from the assembly line. There was no way a perfect seal could have been formed with the rough looking ends, no matter how tight the clamps got.
After pulling the pipes, cleaning the mate surface and replacing the gaskets the bike runs so much quieter without the chitty sound. I don't know what yours sound like but mine made a world of difference. Screw them, as others have said, why do you need to change your riding habits, the book calls for you to allow oil to circulate, a minute or two warm up and your off. Just don't take it to the drag with a cold engine. The only question I have on your riding habit is do you ride it just 2 or 3 miles regularly and then shut it off? If so, take it for a long hard ride and then check them, about a good 30 miles or so. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 177
| No not at all. I live about 3 miles from work and i don't take it out of the garage unless it's at least for a little tour, i would say at least 10 miles if not more. As for as pulling pipes i do not know, i did not ask. I guess that's my fault for trusting my tech. I will do that myself. I sometimes get..............well ......pretty pissed off about some things like that. You know you would think that if a bike was under factory warrenty that they would check it all. Maybe they did i will give them the bennifit of the doubt till i call and check for myself. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I took mine 3 times to the dealer for the popping/stalling issue. I don't know if you have that or not. If you do not have the popping/stalling issue regularly, it may not have an exhaust leak. If it is only occassionally, like once during your ride at a stop or slow through a town, it is probably something else.
Even when I mentioned an exhaust leak, even after I found them loose, they assumed that tight means sealed. It wasn't until I pulled the pipes and saw the crappy ends on the pipe, that is, the metal was not even and would allow for leaks, did I realize the problem. Since I did it myself, and the pictures came out in Loch Ness Monster quality I've scrapped the idea of pressing Victory about it.
When I told my dealer about what I found, their response was, "don't it feel good to find and solve the problem?" But they did say they would look at others who had the popping/stalling issue. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| How many miles on your bike? Did you replace the air filter on schedule and/or did you clean it well before the trip? Since you were running fine and then experienced the problem all of the sudden I'd check the air filter first (you said mountain riding when it occured) and second I'd suspect bad gas. ALL the suggestions are good but I follow the rule of KISS. So if you are sure your air filter is clean, and you've run good gas on "new plugs" and they are still looking sooty (you should put in new ones for testing/checking purposes), you might want to keep an eye on your high idle to see if it is actually pulling off when the bike warms up. Mine drops from 1100 to 900.
Hope this helps...... T |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | yes - check the air filter first. if you ride in heavy rain it gets dirty real fast.... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 732
Western WA | Teach,
15 K and change, and everything has been serviced regularly.
Today I ran a tank of 87 octane through her, (after cleaning the air filter and checking the plugs again), and she seems to be getting a little better with each mile. Maybe taking a bit for the adaptive EFI to recalibrate?
I'm taking off for a few day trip on Saturday. I'll report back when I get home.
Thanks to everyone for the suggestions.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 732
Western WA | Looks like the problem has been solved.
I dropped to an 87 octane. Ran her for about 1700 miles on our trip and she purred like a kitten. No ping either. I pulled the plugs after 800 miles and lo and behold - no soot! Gas mileage for the trip stayed constant at low to mid 40's. The Gatlin tips are staying bright much longer as well.
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. |
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Tourer
Posts: 460
Centennial, CO | Breaker...I think I had the same problem...but it wasn't so bad that my bike ran poorly. While Kevin was here he mentioned it and I am pretty sure he made a small adjustment. You might drop him a PM and see if he can help. KevinX is his handle here. |
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Sooty fouled plugs - any ideas?
