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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 6
| can anyone tell me the difference in cams between Andrews, S&S and Lloydz. I have only seen and heard reports and dyno results on the Lloydz. Long time reader and first time posting something. Would like to hear as much info as possible. Going to have cams put in sooner than later.
Thanks Ryan Suhre (Greenfield, IN) |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 38
Tucson,AZ | I'd like to know this too. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 58
Northwest Ohio | Be carefull what you choose. Too many people overcam their motor thinking bigger is better. Not so on a street motor. Most of the time the smaller cam will do better on the street and beat the bigger cam light to light because of the duration. If your a high rpm guy drag racing the bigger duration cams are fine but not for the street. For the street look for a low duration and high lift. Just my 2 cents. Been there,done that! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1117
Northeast Ohio | I've seen a few folks (not big posters) that have "the other' cams. May have to bump this thread to keep it visible. Most run Lloydz. He KNOWS Vics. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 619
Southeast Iowa | Don't know anything about the Andrews or S&S cams in the 106 but I can vouch for the Lloyds cams. It was a 20HP increase for my bike with no bad side effects. The biggest difference is the torque never dies, it jumps up to 105 ft lbs off idle and pulls hard all the way to red line.
It was by far the best money I've spent on my bike! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | The Andrews 438 does not come in till 3500 RPM. The S&S 495 does not come in until 3800. The overlap on both of those cams REQUIRE a minimum of 10.0:1 compession in order to maintain the low end torque found with the stock cams. The Vic S2 cams are just junk, and not worth mentioning |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Kevin would the Andrews and S&S cams benefit more from the Lloyds 6400 rpm rev limit than the Vic S1 ?? |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 6
| kevin I take it that Lloydz cams come in at an idle then go to a higher rpm |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | I have two Lloydz dyno charts. First dyno was run Aug. 2009, with Stage 1 Level 1, VFCIII, Lloydz intake plate, and stock cams. The second dyno run was Feb. 2010, same set up with Lloydz cams installed. Horsepower at 2500 through 3500 was the same on both runs, on both runs bike was making ~70 hp and 103 torque @ 3500 rpm. Torque was off slightly at 2500 rpm from the stock cams. The real difference is after 3500 rpm, at 4000 rpm the stock cams go flat, torque is falling and HP is just almost flat to redline. With the Lloydz cams, torque does not start to level out until it peaked at 4800 rpm. The HP was still climbing when the rev limiter kicked in @ 5500 rpm. So the Lloydz cams do not effect the low end drivability of the bike, so if you were happy with that from the get go, then you'll be happy with the cams after the install.
Aug. 2009 91.9 hp 105.3 torque
Feb. 2010 109.5 hp 108.7 torque
So what do you get out of this, entrance ramps are really special, running your favorite tight twisty road in second gear is awsome for a 850 lb. bike. Doing a 65 mph 5th gear roll on with your "Wing" buddy...priceless! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | XRsteve - 2010-05-09 9:28 AM
Kevin would the Andrews and S&S cams benefit more from the Lloyds 6400 rpm rev limit than the Vic S1 ??
Yes, but those cams are much better suited to a lighter bike. With the weight of a Vision; you need a torque curve that starts down in the running range or you will end up having to downshift TWICE to have any guts from cruise, and again; both require a MINIMUM of 10.0 compression ratio
The VM1 startcoming on 1000RPM+ earlier then the 438, and that puts it right in the fat of the cruise range |
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Tourer
Posts: 374
Tucson, AZ | I've got the Andrews 460 cams and to honest, in a side to side seat of the pants they equal the Lloyds cams. We have started from dead stops, to side by side in the same gear tests and there was little to no difference in gaining speed or top speed. I am not knocking either setup, both do well, I am just the type that does things different than the rest, hence the reason I bought a Vision. Which ever setup you go with you will be amazed that your on the same bike. Oh and I tried to find my dyno sheet but its lost in the shuffle.
mike |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | how much were the Andrews 460 cams? |
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Tourer
Posts: 374
Tucson, AZ | Had them installed with a power commander for $1100.00
mike |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | mkultra - 2010-05-10 10:31 AM
Had them installed with a power commander for $1100.00
mike
I really need to see a sheet on this bike. My experience with the 460 shows a minimum of 11.25 compression is needed to create any bottom end torque, and that they operate in the 4200, and up range. I have pulled them out of both the bikes I installed them in within a short period of time |
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Tourer
Posts: 374
Tucson, AZ | Not be rude, but I've been thru all this before. Different Dynos/conditions/correction factors...ect. will show different numbers. I'm not caught up in the numbers game, but seat of the pants. All I can say is that head to head we have found that for whatever reason the bikes run almost identical through all gears, weather,...ect. Ive spent too much money on all the Harleys Ive owned and really dont care anymore. Again I'm not saying one is better or worse than the other, just that what I have works as well as the alternative.
mike |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | *LOL* I don't care about numbers. I look at curves |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | well....its been a few days and still no sheet.
Have one? |
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Tourer
Posts: 374
Tucson, AZ | Lotzafun - 2010-05-12 6:39 PM
well....its been a few days and still no sheet.
Have one?
Appearantly not everyone reads the entire posts previously made...If they had they might have seen that a "sheet" can not be found. I'm done with this, if you need paper well thats your deal. I am happy with what I have, and that Sir is that.
mike |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | mkultra - 2010-05-13 8:56 AM
Lotzafun - 2010-05-12 6:39 PM
well....its been a few days and still no sheet.
Have one?
Appearantly not everyone reads the entire posts previously made...If they had they might have seen that a "sheet" can not be found. I'm done with this, if you need paper well thats your deal. I am happy with what I have, and that Sir is that.
mike
I READ IT.. and i completely understand. i went through the same thing years ago with a oil analysis.. i put 7500 miles on a oil change with my 2053cc kaw when others were doing 3k max.. and the oil still tested to be able to have continue use! no one believed it, or thought i was that anal to prove it.. lol then one day i found the print out from the test.. and all u heard was crickets..... not a peep afterwards.. lol |
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cams for 08 vision
