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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 29
| I got the cherry vision. Troy at Free State has kept me informed with this issue. I have no problems at all with them. I just can not believe this is being challenged. Without some kind of defect, No clutch goes out that fast. I hope a call to Polaris will help. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Craig,
Thanks for your direct email. As I asked in the reply email. Could your miles on the Vision be more? Did someone mess with the odometer before you bought your Vision?
To other members on Vision-Riders.com, I do now believe Craig is being straight with us. We should help him and welcome him to the group.
Ride Safe!
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Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | SongFan - 2009-03-15 4:16 PM
Miles - Hydraulic clutch/brakes. No cables.
In that case (and I'm not doubting him). It's got to be some sort of design, or setup issue, or maybe something with the hydraulic system itself and not something that could be "rider induced." to fail at 1200 miles.
Craig, please post the results as this is very interesting. It's likely a one-off thing, as we've only heard of one other clutch failure and there are plenty of high-mileage riders out there doing all sorts of riding and all sorts of horsepower mods as well.
Ya have to get real creative to break a wet clutch.. and as I stated earlier... they usually slip first, then fail.
When you mention it failed.... is that what it did? You just let out the lever and the bike revs up but you don't go? You never really mentioned what it did.
Again.. just curious.
-mkb |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | The design of the clutch on the Vision seems to be very robust and simple. Don't think there is a design issue. I doubt that it was present rider induced either. If the wrong oil or an additive was mistakenly put into the bike, the clutch could fail. When things like this happen to a Vision, I'm sure dealers and all will say abuse......just because it does not happen. I think the person you bought the bike from did something to your bike prior to selling to you, now you have to pay. Bummer.  |
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Tourer
Posts: 354
20 miles west of Chicago. | Probably stupid questions, but did you check the hydraulics for proper functioning, leaks, and proper type of fluid? Foreign object or dirt, torn seal etc. fallen into the fluid reservoir gradually working it's way ointo the tube and blocking it? Torn or improperly installed reservoir gasket allowing pressure leak? Has the primary been opened and the actual clutch plates, spring and mechanism been checked? Don't know how a dealer, Polaris, or anyone else could diagnose an unusual problem like this without actually inspecting the whole clutch system |
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Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | In my lack of ability to speak or type this weekend for some reason... What VisionTex and Mudge stated is what I was getting at. Unlikely a design issue, unlikely rider abuse. The system is just too simple and too robust. My money is on something else and the only way to figure that out... is to open up and check it out. Anything else is a guess. |
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Tourer
Posts: 320
Savannah, GA -Year round riding!! Yay! | As radioteacher mentioned earlier, my clutch went out at 11,000 miles. It wasn't the plates, but the "ratcheting something something" (please excuse my use of technical terms. I only know basics and am too lazy at this hour to go out to the garage to look at paperwork... hehe) I was on a cross country trip and got caught in horrible traffic in Chicago for over 2o miles where I never got over 2nd gear. My bike started clunking when I'd got to shift gears, especially lower gears. Polaris gave me a fit about covering it under warranty. My bike ended up in the shop for over 5 weeks, between delays in parts delivery and then debates over warranty coverage. Finally, after I paid for it myself just to get my bike back, they covered it. I have been running AMSOIL in it since the 500 mile oil change and am begiining to wonder if that isn't it... I'm sorry that you are having these troubles. I hope that you get them resolved and wish you many happy miles. Have you had your dealer check to be sure that all of the neccessary recalls have been done on thid bike so that you will not have any other issues??
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I hate continue to be the skeptic hear as I want to help as much as I can in being the recliner quarterback. Curiosity has got me in this one from the information given and perhaps Craig needs to type slower so I can understand. He states the dealer says the clutch is shot, meaning that it has been opened up and looked at. So if the warranty is not paying, does that mean you didn't have to pay the dealer to open it up? And if he opened it up and says the clutch plates are shot, it has to be more than just mountain roads in Kansas. If X=Y+A, then we are missing all three varibles. If there is premature failure of the clutch, it means there is a problem other than the clutch plates that are worn, so why replace the clutch yourself until you know for sure what caused them to go. And if you are convinced that mountain roads in Kansas caused it, why do you believe that? Did the previous owner use the Vision to pull tractor-trailer rigs across mountain passes when they didn't have enough power to pull there own loads? Now, I can believe there would be premature failure if that was the case. Help me, I don't know what I'm missing here, or maybe I should find another post to rattle around in. BTW Trixie, I use technical terms like that and understood perfectly, but the more appropriate technical term is "ratcheting something, thingy" that is what should be on the paperwork. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | This Whole Thingy Smells Stinky.... I have never seen, nor can I imagine - a motor vehicle dealer mis-treating a customer with something like a clutch or brakes - in that kind of mileage. "If it's broke - fix it " has ALWAYS -in my lifetime - been the way it is treated.
If this is legitimate - that is "Mr. New User" - has described the problem accurately - then lets publish the name of the Dealer so we can all see it - and lets get a campaign together to make sure ALL Victory owners get treated fairly by that Dealer. We CAN BE HEARD!
...... if the complaint is legitimate. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 23
| Look at thevog.net website. Drew called this fellow personally and got the details. It sheds a little more light on the subject. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 34
Pensacola, FL | Whew... Good to know this clutch failure is a flyer outside the bell curve of normalcy !!! I have almost 10,000 miles on mine, and the last 3,000 plus with Mobil 10w30 synthetic oil in the crank case !!!
Steve. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | varyder and donetracey,
As far as I can tell, Craig is a real Vision owner with a real problem. I have vetted his IP address, location, dealer and phone number. Andy at the thevog.net has spoke with him on the phone.
I am wondering how hard it would be to reset the mileage on the odometer of the Vision then ride it 400 miles? Maybe David or Kevin might know the answer to that question.
I agree with thoughts that something is missing from the picture. I hope that the dealer can find out what it is.
If the parts of the clutch assembly, covers and other parts of the system were not torqued to specification, could this cause a early failure? Can the dealer prove that the parts were torqued correctly when assembled?
Craig,
GAgirlTrixie is on the money about recalls. Have the dealer go over every recall that your Vision requires while it is in the shop.
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | RT, I really don't have any dog in the fight other than pure curosity, something that has not been satisfied. Craig doesn't have to tell us nothing, and perhaps he's told all he wants to tell, but it does leave a lot of holes in describing the issue that only Victory/Dealer can solve. I guess he only wanted us to know the problem "may" exist. Reset with electronics would be a breeze and even set it to any mile you so desire, but what is the motive. I didn't go back to read any new posts, but at this point I'll move to be a bystander. I'll remain the skeptic until the whole story is revealed, but what does that matter in the scheme of things. Addendum: I read the post at the other site and all I got out of that is "blah, blah, blah", Craig said. Sorry, I know I'm not your friend right now, but I'm really not trying to be mean or to trash you, but the information everytime is very vague. Have you seen the damaged clutch personnally and physically? Has the dealer made an assessment as to the reason for "early" clutch failure? These things are important if you are sharing information with us and want sympathy or input. Grant it, Victory has to work more in the PR and service department, but that sounds like what the issue really is, not a failed clutch, but fail customer service, at least that is what I get from the other website post. I also gathered we're mean over here on this site or at least I am since I'm the skeptic here. Maybe here's my chanced to be frozen, permanently. Addendum 2: And whether you are a newbie or been on here for a long time, you all get equal billing from me. 
Edited by varyder 2009-03-16 9:23 PM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 29
| Update. I got hold of the dealer in Prezcot,AZ where the seller bought the new vision in 10/11/08. They have a good relationship with seller and miles are correct and was serviced at 500 miles with no problems. I talked to Polaris today & they said I would have to work through the dealer. I will go there after work tommorrow and meet with service Mang. to figure this out. I called 7 other dealers today and they also had never heard of clutch having problems this early and thought it should be covered by Victory. One wrench said the friction plates where out. I will find out on Tuesday. I will keep investagating.
Craig |
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Cruiser
Posts: 266
Hartland, , WI | GAgirlTrixie - 2009-03-15 9:57 PM
As radioteacher mentioned earlier, my clutch went out at 11,000 miles. It wasn't the plates, but the "ratcheting something something" (please excuse my use of technical terms. I only know basics and am too lazy at this hour to go out to the garage to look at paperwork... hehe) I was on a cross country trip and got caught in horrible traffic in Chicago for over 2o miles where I never got over 2nd gear. My bike started clunking when I'd got to shift gears, especially lower gears. Polaris gave me a fit about covering it under warranty. My bike ended up in the shop for over 5 weeks, between delays in parts delivery and then debates over warranty coverage. Finally, after I paid for it myself just to get my bike back, they covered it. I have been running AMSOIL in it since the 500 mile oil change and am begiining to wonder if that isn't it... I'm sorry that you are having these troubles. I hope that you get them resolved and wish you many happy miles. Have you had your dealer check to be sure that all of the neccessary recalls have been done on thid bike so that you will not have any other issues??
Trixie:
I probably will have many on the site not like me agreeing with your AMSoil statement as many here swear by it but...my mechanic an independant service shop in Burlington, WI (has 6 mechanics working for him) out of the blue said last week that AMSoil is "junk" and has been at the root of several problems he has had to correct. My Tribeca was in for service and we were just talking about all kinds of stuff when he blurted that out. Now all his experience he draws this opinion from is with cars & trucks, not motorcyles.
I didn't even follow up with a why, but he is also a good friend as I have used him as my mechanic since I coached his daughter in HS playing basketball her Jr. & Sr. years. There is no reason for him to blow smoke up my skirt!
I went with Mobile 1 synthetic VT 20w 50 on my oil change and haven't noticed anything different in the shifting, finding neutral, etc. like others have reported with various oils. Still planning on changing it at 2500 like the book says.
I wasn't that impressed with the oil in it that drained out...as I laid on the concrete garage floor watching the last little droplets of oil drip out I noticed little black "globuals" coming out with the remaining oil...guess I'm glad they came out rather than being in there somewhere.
I'm not a "wrench" but can handle an oil change...it was kind of fun...memories of youth.
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New user
Posts: 1
| Hey Ken. Just catcjing up on the Forum you linked me too. See you on the Road soon.
Michael (Scooterguy) |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Craig, any final word on the clutch. I hope it worked out for your good anyway it went. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Vinner1 - 2009-03-16 11:25 PM
my mechanic an independant service shop in Burlington, WI (has 6 mechanics working for him) out of the blue said last week that AMSoil is "junk" and has been at the root of several problems he has had to correct.
I think he is a smart guy. I don't give a damn about the hype. I see more issues on bikes with that crap then any other oil. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Ok this has got to be a first, oil designed for a bike the root of the problem? You'd be hard pressed to convince me of that. Like many I have been very skeptical about all of the Amsoil raves through the years, but I've also made a few discoveries; First off bikes are like people, they have likes and dislikes. I had a 1966 Jawa Sport which would only run Champion spark plugs, anything else would foul. Had a Suzuki that wouldn't go over 1500 miles without an oil change unless you ran Honda HP..
The second thing I learned is folks will blame anything for a failure except their own bad habits. If you ride the clutch, boil the clutch fluid in heavy traffic, or shift without fully disengaging you'll have issues. It isn't the oil. I'm not saying anyones ride habits suck, just saying before you blame the oil you might look at your habits. I had a friend who was in the habit of shifting from 5th all the way down to first by holding in the clutch as he coasted to a lower speed or stop. He'd bitch up a storm that the bike tranny was faulty because the tranny would hang in neutral occasionally when he did this and would not shift into first. I suggested he ease the clutch out just to the engagement point and then shift to 1st and wala down it went. Wasn't the bikes tranny after all. Just like the Vision not wanting to go into neutral, sometimes you just need to know the trick. Raise the rpm's just a wee bit and it slides in like butter.
Bottom line is listen to what your bike is telling you. If its rough to shift you have an oil change or lube in the near future. If it is happening far too frequent perhaps a different oil better suited to your bike and your riding habits are in order. I tried 3 other oils before settling on Amsoil for my Vision. Perhaps you'll do better with something else like Shell Rotel or Mobil1 but regardless of opinion your bike will let you know, you just have to listen. |
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WOW! Clutch gone at 1200 miles
