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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 33
Sacramento, CA United States | Iceman,
Now that I've seen the diagram I understand better how it's wired. Also, after reading nailer's response I understand that the turn signal will work with the sequencer but, (since the commons are already back-fed to the board) only a sequencer wired such a way would work. That is... running lighting and brake lighting using the same rows of LEDs won't work (even with a check diode). That was the jest of my question #2.
And, you're right--much depends on the type of sequencer selected.
I'm really trying to create something now with the best of ALL worlds (as nailer's trying to do also I guess)--running lights (in a dim mode for vehicle visibility), brake lights (using the Kisan trailBlazer for added alertness), and the sequencer for turn signals only. ALL of the these combinations powering the same LED strips. As nailer mentioned, it can happen if individual rows of LEDs are used (odd/even) but, how do you build something using all 3 functions in same LED rows?
In answer to johnnyvision's question about turning stock lighting into a chasing sequence checkout:
http://www.vision-mod.com/
Iceman,
Thank you very much for the inspiration. The trailer light isolator's a great idea. I understand the Vision's flasher module is quite temperamental so separating the lighting circuit from the bike is a very good idea. I've heard the flasher module goes for $250 so loading it down and blowing it would be an expensive lesson.
One more thing... did you lay your rows of lights horizontally or vertically on the rear light?
Edited by Davet 2014-11-06 5:28 AM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 33
Sacramento, CA United States | To nailer,
To build the 3-function LED lighting circuit (running, braking, turning) it's not necessary to build 3 rows of alternating rows of LEDs (as you've described). You can keep the LEDs dense but only use 2 rows... if you use the even rows of LEDs for the sequencer circuit then the odd rows can have the +12V wired through diodes for braking and running lights. The odd row of LEDs would have the commons married together then a diode with a resistor ('bout 300 Ohm) coming out of the trailer isolator running light circuit to the positive side of the same rows. Coming out of the trailer converter's braking circuit go through another diode and connect that with the positive side of the odd rows of LEDs (parallel to the running light circuit on the same set of LEDs). My understanding of the Vision's running light vs braking light circuit is they're not ON at the same time. So, the power issue is solved using the trailer converter and the diodes prevent back-feed.
It's just an idea but, it permits more lights with less work....
Edited by Davet 2014-11-06 5:18 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 366
Albuquerque, NM | Davet,
Thanks for the response and the idea of two rows -vs- three with the resistor/diode combo to prevent back-feed. As for running the led strips, I have seen some strips with enough space between the individual led's to run another strip perpendicular within that gap. Horizontal rows for the sequencer and vertical rows for the running lights/brake lights. From the outside of the lens, the leds would look more symmetrical.
It looks like you and I are the only ones that are going run with this project. I ride year round so I'm hesitant to remove my tail lights and split them to make a template for the led mounting board. Anyone know the cost of replacement tail lights and the PN# for the trailer converter?
Edited by nailer 2014-11-06 2:31 PM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 33
Sacramento, CA United States | Nailer...
Converters are $13-$50 (check Amazon--Trailer Converters).
I understand the reluctance in disassembling the lights. I also ride year 'round as well (NorCal--NOT SAMCRO territory that's more SoCal). I've had my lights apart to install an LED license plate frame and patched into the lighting harness once already. The lens can be removed, a template made then, the lens can be reassembled with hot melt glue (which can be removed later if you use the right kind) in a matter of hours. After the template's made you can work on LED light arrangement at your leisure.
Light assemblies from Ma Vic are $118 ea. (right side P/N: 2410669, left side P/N: 2410621).
Keep the Shiny Side UP!
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Cruiser
Posts: 167
, OH | Guys sorry, im moving and today is the last day in this house. Got behind. To answer your thoughts and comments. (out of order).
The led magician will work fine for turn signals. and that's ok.
You can also use the diodes. Put one diode inline on each positive wire of the led strip. to prevent voltage from going backwards to the led magician board.
Tie or jump all the positive wires together (after the diode and before the LED (see photo)).
Tie or jump all the negative wires together the same way for the neg side.
This will give you two wires coming from the leds. A 12v plus and 12v minus wires. Without going thru the led magician board.
RUN THESE TWO WIRES over the the tail/light brake light. (which would be picture #2).
You now have two wires that will power the leds separate. if you put 12v on these new two wires the leds will all light up without the led magician in the loop.
now take two DIODES tie the ends together (the ends with the stripe on)
The striped ends together will go to the LED POS wire.
USE one of the two diodes and go to the tail light power which will light all LEDS.
USE the other diode goto the brake light flasher circuit. Which will flash all the LEDS.
So you have three circuits all separated by diodes to keep each one isolated and use ALL LEDS.
(SEE THE GREEN WIRE SECTION)
Edited by icemann 2014-11-08 7:16 AM
(Connection Diagram - 12 Channel Out 12V.jpg)
(wire.jpg)
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 Connection Diagram - 12 Channel Out 12V.jpg (57KB - 17 downloads)
wire.jpg (45KB - 4 downloads)
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Tourer
Posts: 341
West Salem, WI United States | Nailer, I think there are others here like me who want to do this project. I'm just sort of waiting a bit to get into winter here in WI and to really try to comprehend exactly what to do. You are Davet are asking great questions and I don't want to get in the middle of that and complicate it! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 167
, OH | you will need two led magicians. one for the left and one for the right tail lights.
in the diode section where the two diodes are tied together. If you add a third diode. you can run your 4 way flashers off the bike to diode #3 which will then loop back and fire up or power up both LED MAGICIANS at the same time to have chasing 4 way flashers.
SEE EASY |
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Tourer
Posts: 366
Albuquerque, NM | thanks icemann,
What pn# diode did you use? (I was thinking of using 1N4004's)
Edited by nailer 2014-11-12 3:34 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 167
, OH | should work just fine. did it make sense the three diodes as input separators? |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 33
Sacramento, CA United States | Back on 10-29, I asked a question 'bout the commons being tied together because I found an alternative circuit in the LED Magician manual which simplified wiring but also introduced a new dilemma... if the positives are tied together (as in the drawing) then the LED Magician's a common-collector transistor circuits' are actually switching the common side of the LED's not the positive side. How can this work if using a single source with switching commons? Then tying the commons together to eliminate the LED Magician's common-collector switching while using the Kisan flasher or dropping resistor for the running lights?
Using the single positive leg from the LED Magician makes installing a diode much easier than installing a matrix of diodes (agreed)? Which makes me question where the source goes after passing through the LEDs?
Frankly, the holidays have my time monopolized so I won't be buying or building anything 'til after the new year. I'm very enthused by Iceman's ideas and am looking forward to experimenting with lighting strips in the future. I'm grateful to all who have contributed in this discussion as it has: informed me, taught me, and looks like saved me some money. This discussion's helped me narrow down my parts list and showed me what to focus on in trying different circuits. Thanks to all for the help!
Edited by Davet 2014-11-14 2:42 AM
(LED Magician 1 Positive Output Wiring.jpg)
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LED Magician 1 Positive Output Wiring.jpg (63KB - 6 downloads)
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Tourer
Posts: 366
Albuquerque, NM | Hey iceman,
I've got the rear panels ready to install. The vertical led strips are running lights/brake lights. I used a 9 volt regulator to get the dimmer running lights. Tying in the brake light voltage to the running lights puts 12v on them when the brakes are applied. The horizontal LEDs are the turn signals. The turn signal voltage powers up the led magician and to display the set sequencing pattern.
The trailer light converter won't work in my application. I'll probably have to use a load resistor. Works great on my power supply. Need to figure out how to wire it up on my vision. Thanks for the inspiration. Will post a link to the video when completed.
(IMG_20150314_111815.jpg)
(IMG_20150314_112147.jpg)
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IMG_20150314_111815.jpg (86KB - 10 downloads)
IMG_20150314_112147.jpg (95KB - 6 downloads)
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Cruiser
Posts: 167
, OH | lol, that's how the back of mine looked. Once its inside the LENS you don't see any of it. I do recommend putting the "circuit" into a plastic project box of sorts.
What an outstanding job. So for bike connections. if you follow the stock wire up the passenger side of the bike, the PLUG IN harness is under the seat along the passenger side rail. Easy access. If I am correct you basically have "3" positive wires coming out of each light housing plus the ground. You just have to tap each of the 3 circuits under the seat that goes "HOT" with respect to brake, tail, turn. I cant wait to see them. GREAT JOB!
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Tourer
Posts: 341
West Salem, WI United States | Looking good, can't wait for the video! Could you make a template of the backer piece before you install? And what material did you use for that? I haven't seen LED strips like those, can you share your part#'s and source? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 167
, OH | slow down. ok. you have power and ground leading to the chaser. it has connections to the lights. SO. IF you came from the tail light wire plus and minus. Minus is easy. Use a diode from the brake plus wire and on a lead to each LED you want to light strand you want to light up as Brake. If you have diodes in line from the chaser as well you wont get cross over or back power. so chaser out to diode to led 1. new diode on led 2. new diode on #3 etc. then the brake light wire to a diode and a jumper to each set of leds. but connect the brake lines to AFTER the chaser diodes not before. that way the brake will not go backwards and chase.
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Tourer
Posts: 366
Albuquerque, NM | Got it wired up and working. All seems OK, cruise control is working. Didn't need a load resistor. Undid the middle brake light mod and removed the middle bulbs. The heat from them was too close to the led magician. Not real happy with vertical/horizontal LED alignment. I will use solderable perf board and 5mm flat top leds on the front lenses which will require a lot more soldering but the results will be more like MBW's.
2008 Victory Vision rear tail light sequencing LED: https://youtu.be/pAu9p8NqNDk |
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Tourer
Posts: 341
West Salem, WI United States | Looks good nailer, nice work. I see what you mean about the alignment, but most people won't notice that. |
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Tourer
Posts: 366
Albuquerque, NM | Some of that misalignment is the angle I recorded at and the tail light lens itself. The red lens has variations in thickness and ribs that make the leds look out of alignment. I will work on putting a list of materials/source/cost in the Tech Forum later this week. This is not a project for the faint of heart. Basic DC electronics knowledge required. It's not easy working with the LED strips since their spacing is fixed. Alot of soldering is required and your workmanship must be excellent or your going to run into reliability issues down the road. My estimate is around $150 for the project plus many hours of build time.
Sorry for the multiple posts earlier...Damn tablet is so slow!
Edited by nailer 2015-03-25 10:34 AM
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Cruiser
Posts: 167
, OH | Couple of things. Take another solid piece of pcb or plastic you used. Drill out the holes to make your aligned pattern and lay it over the top of the light panel inside. silicone the edges as if its a sandwich. All of the light will be forced thru your holes. Your alignment will/cant be seen. Solves that problem.
Add a flasher, or digital flasher inline on the brake light wire. It will cause the brakes to pulse. The digital one goes from fast flash to solid. Easy fix.
Or slight smoke tint the lens, which is sweet too.
Great job, proud of you. Great video.
He's right by the way it is not for the faint heart. However knowing YOU DID IT YOURSELF, and it cost me about $125.00 and a whole heap a time.
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Tourer
Posts: 366
Albuquerque, NM | Thanks, going to your idea a step further. I'm working on redoing the tail lights like this blank trunk light PCB design. I made a cable with 4 channels from the led magician that I'll run to the trunk lights. They will sequence in unison with the tail lights. Also plan on removing the mode & speed adj buttons on the led magician and put them on an external pcb to allow changes to the sequence modes.
Edited by nailer 2015-03-26 12:49 PM
(14273919071871511046810.jpg)
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14273919071871511046810.jpg (88KB - 6 downloads)
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Cruiser
Posts: 167
, OH | I thought about that as I love the gadgetry behind it. However I stopped when I realized my bike has been apart since May 30th. OK June 7th, and this is almost April. I figured once I got it working and it looked nice, Ill never change it. And Ill never make another one.
JD |
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Cruiser
Posts: 167
, OH | nailer AN UPDATE PLEASE!
ICE |
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Tourer
Posts: 366
Albuquerque, NM | Not ready to cut up the trunk lights to install the pcb's with such great riding weather. Will do the font lenses also this winter. |
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Tourer
Posts: 366
Albuquerque, NM | Just finished one side of of my front turn signals. 227 hand soldered led's. I must be nuts.
Edited by nailer 2016-02-12 9:39 PM
(14553346764651474194782.jpg)
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Cruiser
Posts: 167
, OH | glad it worked out |
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Tourer
Posts: 366
Albuquerque, NM | Hey iceman,
The individual LEDs didn't work out. Too many wires/connections. As careful wiring/soldering as I was, I've taken them apart 3 times to fix intermittent issues. No more! I'm going back to led strips. Will post a video on you tube when done.
Question for you: I used 6 ohm/20W resistors to get the flash rate normal. Found that the resistors heat up really hot in a short time even mounted on large aluminum heatsinks. What's the highest value resistor I can get away with that doesn't draw so much current. Thought you may know. Wish I had a large potentiometer.
Saw you moved over to the vog.net. This site is getting kind of boring. Don't blame you. Saw your finished bike pics. Nice! Always liked the blue true-fire paint.
ride safe,
nailer
Sorry.....meant to pm you on this.
Edited by nailer 2016-07-05 1:07 PM
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MADE MY OWN LED TAIL LIGHTS
