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Cruiser
Posts: 266
Hartland, , WI | Before I got my 08 Premium in September, I read a lot of reviews and comments like most everyone does. Many magazine reviews and comments were that they couldn't believe that there were no ABS brakes...especially for the price, blah...blah...
I sold my BMW LT1200 after I bought the Vision, (it took four hours on Ebay and got $3500 more than what they offered as a trade-in) and it had servo assisted ABS and was touchy as hell. It really could slow you down in a hurry, better than anything I've ridden, but over all I thought they were a pain in the a**!
I don't know if it's just me but when I the Vision I was able to go back to slow speed maneuvering by lightly dragging the rear brake...I learned this years ago when being taught how to be an instructor and I hated not being able to do that with my LT because the servo's made it so twitchy.
Don't' get me wrong...I love having the mechanical link in the foot control on the Vision...great idea in a panic stop. But I don't get all of the hand wringing is about...no ABS
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Tourer
Posts: 562
SC, Bluffton | Vinner1 - 2008-10-23 10:19 AM
I don't get all of the hand wringing is about...no ABS
Nor I, but maybe it is a way to kill the daydream of buying one and sticking
with the bike you have? |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Not to fan the coals of a ABS discussion, but I'm still not convinced either. The Vision is a very adept bike, if I may use that term, in every situation I've encountered. I also find it refreshing, though I now ride much more aggressively, if I may use that term, than I did on my last bike, yet have not felt intimided even in very close calls. The braking and response is exceptional on the Vision, and it goes where I want it to. That may not be anything new to someone else on a different bike, but for me, it is downright refreshing. Even in planned and in a safe place I have locked up the rear brake and I'm amazed it keeps a straight line without slipping to either side. Not so on my last bike, and when you let off, you had to watch for the kick, not on the Vision though. Alright I've stirred the pot enough, Next! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 725
Reno County, KS | I'm with you 100% on the ABS moaning. Some folks do like to have added security of the ABS but it is not necessary and will even hinder you in many ways. Slow speed dragging is one very good example. This 106'' has plentiful torque and it is most evident at slow speeds and when engine braking. I REALLY recommend practicing stops with both brakes and the engine. This was my first bike with linked braking. It is very easy to overcompensate with the rear brakes while using both to stop. It is also possible to engine brake yourself into trouble before (or possibly during) a curve. No amount of ABS will keep traction when the engine is doing the slowing. I have to drive on dirt and gravel to get home. I can't imagine what a nightmare it must be to deal with motorcycle ABS in these situations. ABS? No, thank you. I'll stick with learning the bike and making the important decisions based on variable conditions. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Hey bigwill, you mention you ride on dirt and gravel. I've done very little and avoid at all cost, however, incomparison how does the Vision do better in those conditions than you're other bikes. I'm prone to take short cuts that have led me to unknow gravel roads and I've back track because of them on my old bike. If I encounter one on the Vision I think I would traverse on but want to know what to expect. Seems like a dumb question, but humor me a little.  |
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Tourer
Posts: 506
Woodland Hills, CA | I completely agree about ABS as well. I have never had it, and never felt the need, nor do I understand all the attention it seems to be getting. Personally I think the Vision is an exceptional bike with great breaking. In fact, while the linked brakes work great, I would prefer it if they were NOT linked, but that's just me. I like to the control of separate braking. |
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Tourer
Posts: 301
Buffalo Grove,Ill | I know this isn't bike related answer , well maybe related, But most of us now have abs in our cars, when your talking about a vehicle that weighs thousands of pounds it makes more sense. BUT I HATE IT ! For the average grandma its probably ok But anyone that has any feel for a car can control a car better when they can feel what its doing. I don't know for sure but i am assuming that its the same for a bike. I have been in 3 accidents in my life in a car, and i believe 2 of them could have been avoided or drastically reduced WITHOUT ABS. I couldn't really understand the concept of airbags on a bike either but thats another can of worms thread LOL |
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Cruiser
Posts: 249
Montreal, QC Canada | My 2005 Saturn Ion doesn't even have ABS and I love it. It gives me more feel for the brake. Growing up driving old wrecks you got the feel of everything. I don't miss it on the Vision or the car. |
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Tourer
Posts: 412
Fargo, ND | I have to cast my vote with the - OK without ABS. My most previous bike was an 03 Wing and I ordered it with ABS. Thank goodness I never did have to call on it to do it's job. I did test it one time on a gravel road by stomping on the brake pedal and it did function very nicely. I paid an additional thousand bucks for the abs and got just about that much more for my bike than one that was not equipped with abs when I sold it. So...I had the added safety and the (end) cost was about a wash. Oh, one other thing...I did have people lined up to buy my bike and I feel that was partially due to the abs. Would I spend the xtra money again? Probably not. That being said...if I found myself comming into a tight curve waay hot and didn't have time to straighten up and get on the binders...I would probably then want to pay the 1K and get them installed very, very quickly!!! 
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New user
Posts: 1
| I found this discussion very insightful -- I have a 2005 Hammer and a Honda XR650L Dual Sport. I am considering a 2008 Vision at low after season prices or maybe even an anniversary edition.
During my two vision test rides, I thought the brakes sucked -- but I am not sure how to use a linked system. On the Hammer or Honda -- two fingers can apply enough pressure to lock up the front wheel or let it off to regain control.
With the Visions I rode the brakes felt sloppy and imprecise.
What am I missing?
Dobe |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | doberwiler - 2008-11-04 1:50 AM
I found this discussion very insightful -- I have a 2005 Hammer and a Honda XR650L Dual Sport. I am considering a 2008 Vision at low after season prices or maybe even an anniversary edition.
During my two vision test rides, I thought the brakes sucked -- but I am not sure how to use a linked system. On the Hammer or Honda -- two fingers can apply enough pressure to lock up the front wheel or let it off to regain control.
With the Visions I rode the brakes felt sloppy and imprecise.
What am I missing?
Dobe
You'll get a ton of replies I'm sure. But what are missing? Perspective! Any thing different will take some getting use to. Riders have pointed out the rear brake LEVER is sloppy but the braking action good. The Goldwing has had the linked system since way back when, cause my 84 had it. I find that the Vision is excellent in braking and have only locked it up in controlled situations to check response. I hope you have the appropriate safety courses that will allow you to enjoy your ride in all situations. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Evergreen, CO | I have avoided NUMEROUS accidents in my cars with ABS, almost every one of them on icy roads. I NEVER ride my Vision on icy roads, similar to my close encounters with my cars. I'm in the side of no ABS preferred on my motorcycle for just that reason. It takes some mighty fine technology to replace a good dose of experience.
Just imagine a 6% grade on an interstate, with black ice so slick you cannot even stand up on it. THAT is when ABS does its thing. Cars YES, motorcycle NO. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | doberwiler - 2008-11-04 12:50 AM
I found this discussion very insightful -- I have a 2005 Hammer and a Honda XR650L Dual Sport. I am considering a 2008 Vision at low after season prices or maybe even an anniversary edition.
During my two vision test rides, I thought the brakes sucked -- but I am not sure how to use a linked system. On the Hammer or Honda -- two fingers can apply enough pressure to lock up the front wheel or let it off to regain control.
With the Visions I rode the brakes felt sloppy and imprecise.
What am I missing?
Dobe
Dobe, with the two bikes you have now, I would figure your an aggressive rider. That is fine, I too sometimes ride very aggressive when I'm not riding 2 up. A point to be made is that the brakes on the Vision are about the same size as the Hammer and probably about as capable as the Hammer. The thing is that it they are hauling down an extra 250 + lbs......plus the are linked. Which means the fronts are not all front, one of the pistons on the front each disc is tied to the rear brakes. So because I think your an aggressive rider, you probably use your fronts most of the time......so I think your observation maybe good in your prospective. There are some very aggressive riders here on the site, and I have not heard of any complaint that they could not haul the bike down in a controlled or emergency circumstance. Also, the adjustable brake lever has caused some folks to feel the brakes are mushy......sloppy......imprecise. Good luck on your venture to get a new Vision, you will enjoy the ride.  |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1158
Richmond, Virginia | ABS on a motorcycle is like asking to put a roof over the top. Ive owned 6 bikes only one with ABS, was it worth it,,, no. Honestly
if I need ABS which is mostly due to weather related issues, Id drive my car anyway. Car drivers are nuts when its sunny and clear,
i dont want the stress of dealing with them on a rainey slick day on my bike... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 60
Denver | I think that it should be an option. I have always been one to say I have never had it or needed it but the truth is that it is a better braking system. I had it on the Wing and can tell you that when the roads are slick it is invaluable. No not snow, but just rain. I did like the linked braking on the Wing better as it operated from the hand brake and the rear. Stopping the big wing was never an issue. Because I had shoulder surgery this year I only got about 6k on the Vision since May. It took some getting used to but I now have a "feel" for the brakes on the bike.
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Never owned a bike wih ABS and frankly don't see a need for it. I've ridden bikes with it and really don't see the big deal. I ride in almost any weather which means you run across some sketchy road surfaces. ABS wouldn't make a difference on these IMO. Everything else works fine with traditional brakes. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | I've never owned a bike with ABS either, and I found the linked braking system of the Goldwing to work well, as do the linked brakes on the Vision. Actually, I think the Vision's system has a slight advantage over the Goldwing's, because you can drag the rear brake separately from the front on the Vision. Since I live back in the woods and must traverse loose gravel roads everytime I ride, the ability to use the rear brake alone is crucial. I do own a car and a pickup truck that have ABS. Being the gearheads that we are, my buddy and I just had to test the stopping distances of our ABS equipped vehicles with the distances achieved with non-ABS. On dry gravel roads, the stopping distances were MUCH shorter with the non-ABS. When tested on snow covered roads, the distances increased over the dry roads, but the non-ABS vehicles still stopped quicker again, by several feet. I also drive Semi-trucks. The first time I had a light change in front of me and a car make an unexpected stop, and I was driving an ABS equipped truck, I dang-near rearended the car. As it was, I ended up on the shoulder beside the car and partially into the intersection. Had I not been driving an ABS equipped truck, there would have been lots of tire smoke, loud screeching sounds, long skid martks, and 18 very expensive flat-spotted truck tires, but I would have stopped much shorter. When you are forced into a panic-stop situation in an 80,000 pound vehicle equipped with ABS, it feels like you are not ever going to stop. The brakes do not lock up, the tires do not get ruined, but you do not stop very quickly either. That's something we all should remember when considering whether to pull out in front of that on-coming truck, or whether to wait 2 more seconds for him to pass by. Now, I've been assigned a new truck that has ESC (Electronic Stability Control). Now, whenever I try to gain speed while negotiating an entrance ramp, so that I can smoothly enter the traffic flow, the truck AUTOMATICALLY, and without warning, sets the brakes and retards the truck's power. Sometimes, technology sucks.
Ronnie
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ABS moaning!
