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Sturbridge, Ma | Ok, So this has been beaten to death! But anyway wanted to share with you all.
I've done every search on whats best oil for my VV...got many mixed reviews? Coming from a Honda VTX and full synthetic, I was planning the same on my new for me Used 2009. Previous owner just used Victory oil...
So I go to a Polaris next town over to get filter and Oil to make oil change and Parts Tech mentions me about Amsoil, I said yes I know about it and have used it on my previous vehicles but was concerned with all the mixed reviews on the bike clutch slipping, 20W-50 not compareable...etc. He says allot of the customers use Amsoil and swear by it.
So I said ok, let me try it...So I go Home and do oil change and turn it on and WOW what a difference in sound. YES much quieter and healthier sound. Didn't get to drive it as is raining here for the last two days, but can't wait. He also said their service tech all swear by it and like their customers to use it.
He said it really helps on the shifting as well in temperature. But can't confirm until I drive it. |
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Meadow, Texas | Eric,
I just switched over to Amsoil and did a little trip of around 300 miles. Shifting was smoother/quieter and my oil temp gauge showed about 20 degrees cooler. That was the real difference. My mechanic told me that shifting and temp would improve and so far it has. But I had run a Honda synthetic in my VTX and it seemed to run better than with the standard. But then again, this could be my perception.
Hope others chime in but this oil thing has been beat on previous entries also.
Best of luck and keep the rubber side down,
Larry "O"
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Pittsburgh, PA | the most common thing i hear from other amsoil users is SMOOTHER shifting. Doesnt matter what you ride everyone seems to say the same thing. |
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Sturbridge, Ma | LarryinMD - 2010-08-23 7:44 PM
Eric,
I just switched over to Amsoil and did a little trip of around 300 miles. Shifting was smoother/quieter and my oil temp gauge showed about 20 degrees cooler. That was the real difference. My mechanic told me that shifting and temp would improve and so far it has. But I had run a Honda synthetic in my VTX and it seemed to run better than with the standard. But then again, this could be my perception.
Hope others chime in but this oil thing has been beat on previous entries also.
Best of luck and keep the rubber side down,
Larry "O"
What is your temperture running at? I just got the gauge so not sure what it was as i just placed it.
I'm glad is running sweet...I can't wait to try it? |
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Eric_MA - 2010-08-23 8:51 PM
LarryinMD - 2010-08-23 7:44 PM
Eric,
I just switched over to Amsoil and did a little trip of around 300 miles. Shifting was smoother/quieter and my oil temp gauge showed about 20 degrees cooler. That was the real difference. My mechanic told me that shifting and temp would improve and so far it has. But I had run a Honda synthetic in my VTX and it seemed to run better than with the standard. But then again, this could be my perception.
Hope others chime in but this oil thing has been beat on previous entries also.
Best of luck and keep the rubber side down,
Larry "O"
What is your temperture running at? I just got the gauge so not sure what it was as i just placed it.
I'm glad is running sweet...I can't wait to try it?
Remember that that the number one reason for engine oil temps to be lower is because it is NOT ABSORBING HEAT FROM THE ENGINE. This is the reason that Vic moved the temp sensor from an oil passage to a blind metal hole. Do not confuse what you see as being what you THINK you see |
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The Vic Shop - Central Iowa | kevinx - 2010-08-23 8:13 PM
Eric_MA - 2010-08-23 8:51 PM
LarryinMD - 2010-08-23 7:44 PM
Eric,
I just switched over to Amsoil and did a little trip of around 300 miles. Shifting was smoother/quieter and my oil temp gauge showed about 20 degrees cooler. That was the real difference. My mechanic told me that shifting and temp would improve and so far it has. But I had run a Honda synthetic in my VTX and it seemed to run better than with the standard. But then again, this could be my perception.
Hope others chime in but this oil thing has been beat on previous entries also.
Best of luck and keep the rubber side down,
Larry "O"
What is your temperture running at? I just got the gauge so not sure what it was as i just placed it.
I'm glad is running sweet...I can't wait to try it?
Remember that that the number one reason for engine oil temps to be lower is because it is NOT ABSORBING HEAT FROM THE ENGINE. This is the reason that Vic moved the temp sensor from an oil passage to a blind metal hole. Do not confuse what you see as being what you THINK you see
Yep, and a cold engine doesn't combust as efficently, leading to carbon buildup among other things. Some older Vic bikes have built up enough carbon to burn valves; also heard of enough carbon on the piston to smack the piston to head; and lastly one that smoked the rings from excess carbon. Maybe it won't happen to yours, but these are actual cases.
Edited by Vicbuilder 2010-08-23 8:20 PM
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Sturbridge, Ma | So are you saying this can be caused by the oil? Or is this what happens when I use Amsoil?
I guess this is all new to me as I always been running water cooled engines and never had any issues... |
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| So we should use top end cleaner anyway and if we use an oil that causes cooler temperatures by what difference do we change the frequency of using the top end cleaner?
I can agree that a cooler engine does not combust as efficiently but what is the correct temperature parameters for the best operation? What is the lowest temp we can have the engine operate at before effecting negative results?
The example you give for carbon buildup damage have been proven to be from cooler engine temps caused by the oil and not something else? Like crap gas, lack of proper maintenance, insufficient operating temp before beating on the motor? Lloyd wrote an article about not getting the motor up to temp before racing or beating on it, which of these did cause the damage? Oil or improper operating temp do to lack of warmup?
"Maybe it won't happen to yours, but these are actual cases." Cases of what? What actually caused the damaged? Cheap gas with no cleaning additives? Which we know LOTS of owners buying to save a buck. Owners not using top end cleaner which if you remember correctly Victory used to sell their own brand so that tells me I should be using something. Fouled plugs causing poor burning and then causing carbon build up? We know of LOTS of posts of owners changing their plugs because of fouling.
I do not see a direct link to type of oil causing the above damage? I do see a lack of research to confirm the true cause of the damage.
56,000 miles on my '99
47,000 miles on my '03 at time of trade in
25,000 miles on my '09 Vision
Most of these miles are with Amsoil and I have had no problems. Of course I do proper maintenance, buy good gas and I do not beat on my engine. So if I assume as above the Amsoil oil makes my bikes run better cause I haven't done any true testing either.
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Pittsburgh, PA | Eric I used amsoil in my vision for over 12000 miles so far. NO clutch issues and no engine problems. You don't get a reputation like amsoil has by causing customers problems. I convinced my victory dealer to sell amsoil and now the parts Guy tells me he can't keep the stuff on the shelf! And about the amsoil lowering engine temperature. Its nothing major. It's nothing u feel. It only lowered mine roughly 10F and that's only when I'm constantly moving. Once u stop your temperature is the same as always. The reason I used amsoil in the past wasn't about temperature, it was about how my transmission shifts... |
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Arkainzeye - 2010-08-24 6:11 AM
Eric I used amsoil in my vision for over 12000 miles so far. NO clutch issues and no engine problems. You don't get a reputation like amsoil has by causing customers problems. I convinced my victory dealer to sell amsoil and now the parts Guy tells me he can't keep the stuff on the shelf! And about the amsoil lowering engine temperature. Its nothing major. It's nothing u feel. It only lowered mine roughly 10F and that's only when I'm constantly moving. Once u stop your temperature is the same as always. The reason I used amsoil in the past wasn't about temperature, it was about how my transmission shifts...
My point is that Amsoil or any full synth does NOT LOWER ENGINE TEMP. It lowers OIL TEMP because it does not effectively ABSORB heat from hard parts. If you want to use a full synth then go for it, but do not fall for or perpetuate the lie that the engine runs cooler. As I said earlier. Vic had to move the temp sensor into a dry hole to get an accurate temperature reading; because of different oils ability to absorb, and shed heat
Edited by kevinx 2010-08-24 5:49 AM
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Pittsburgh, PA | kevinx - 2010-08-24 5:48 AM
Arkainzeye - 2010-08-24 6:11 AM
Eric I used amsoil in my vision for over 12000 miles so far. NO clutch issues and no engine problems. You don't get a reputation like amsoil has by causing customers problems. I convinced my victory dealer to sell amsoil and now the parts Guy tells me he can't keep the stuff on the shelf! And about the amsoil lowering engine temperature. Its nothing major. It's nothing u feel. It only lowered mine roughly 10F and that's only when I'm constantly moving. Once u stop your temperature is the same as always. The reason I used amsoil in the past wasn't about temperature, it was about how my transmission shifts...
My point is that Amsoil or any full synth does NOT LOWER ENGINE TEMP. It lowers OIL TEMP because it does not effectively ABSORB heat from hard parts. If you want to use a full synth then go for it, but do not fall for or perpetuate the lie that the engine runs cooler. As I said earlier. Vic had to move the temp sensor into a dry hole to get an accurate temperature reading; because of different oils ability to absorb, and shed heat
Oh i completely agree with you! thats why i mentioned it. i didnt want someone going out and buying cases of amsoil thinking it will CURE their heat issue on the exhaust side of the engine. the only way i ever saw the oil temp lower than standard was when im moving. it seems to dissipate the heat when moving better. but you have to be super anal to even notice it. (oil temp dipstick). Right now im using Rotella T6 5-W40 the w40 is actually "thicker" than amsoils 10w40 but on dry/cold start this stuff really flow and quiets what sometimes is a noisey Dry start. now you wanna talk about a engine that cools down quickly IF stuck in traffic. this rotella 5w40 once Moving really drops the oil temp on the dipstick. =) im going to run this oil for 2500 miles then send it to Blackstonelabs for a oil analysis. |
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Arkainzeye - 2010-08-24 7:48 AM
it seems to dissipate the heat when moving better. but you have to be super anal to even notice it. (oil temp dipstick).
It can not dissipate it better if it does not ABSORB it better. Hard parts can actually be HOTTER even though the oil temp appears lower |
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Pittsburgh, PA | There was an article I read where they 40 weight cools down quicker than w50. It can cool by flowing better example would be 10w40 vs. 20w40. Plus any reduced friction. Reduced in the way people say they feel it in the traansmission shifting etc.
Edited by Arkainzeye 2010-08-24 9:02 AM
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Baltimore, Md | I was one of those who tried Amsoil and liked the smoother shifting, but experienced clutch slipping after a while. Changing the oil back to Vic (and then Castrol) the clutch slipping stopped and clunky shifting returned. Being mechanically challenged, I simply wonder why some Vision clutches slip badly with Amsoil and others do not. I have to believe it was the Amsoil that made my clutch slip, but other than different riders, the parts are the same. Are the plates so sensitive that some just slip and others don't? Curious. |
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New Bohemia, VA | Kevin has pointed out that it is riding style and that is completely understandable. I'm slower and steady on the throttle but still consider myself aggressive. I keep it away from the "burnin' rubber" starts, but I'll tach it out fast. My goal is not to snap a belt or slip the clutch so bad that it burns it up before its time. My guess is that folks that are slipping clutches go over the mine line of aggressiveness to the point where they lay down rubber or potentially break a belt. Just my assessment of the situation as I run Amsoil. I do not feel a "slipping" of the clutch in the way I ride, but I am off the line and well down the road before most folk know the light even turned green.
As far as the cooling goes, I don't know that I've noticed much or any real change, and I use the thermometer. There may have been remarks that I've made that it seems to run cooler, but it was also in the feel of the heat on the leg relative to the thermometer reading and it was negligible at best. I will affirm that it does run quieter and longer than if I use Vic oil. I'm seriously thinking of going to the Rotella but I'm not positive at this point. I'm at an oil change interval and currently running 20w50 AMSOIL but will be going back to 10w40 whatever at the next change. I can tell some difference in the cold start ups here in the cooler tempatures, taking longer to quiet down in the morning with the 20w50.
Edited by varyder 2010-08-24 10:13 AM
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Pittsburgh, PA | varyder - 2010-08-24 10:04 AM
Kevin has pointed out that it is riding style and that is completely understandable. I'm slower and steady on the throttle but still consider myself aggressive. I keep it away from the "burnin' rubber" starts, but I'll tach it out fast. My goal is not to snap a belt or slip the clutch so bad that it burns it up before its time. My guess is that folks that are slipping clutches go over the mine line of aggressiveness to the point where they lay down rubber or potentially break a belt. Just my assessment of the situation as I run Amsoil. I do not feel a "slipping" of the clutch in the way I ride, but I am off the line and well down the road before most folk know the light even turned green.
As far as the cooling goes, I don't know that I've noticed much or any real change, and I use the thermometer. There may have been remarks that I've made that it seems to run cooler, but it was also in the feel of the heat on the leg relative to the thermometer reading and it was negligible at best. I will affirm that it does run quieter and longer than if I use Vic oil. I'm seriously thinking of going to the Rotella but I'm not positive at this point. I'm at an oil change interval and currently running 20w50 AMSOIL but will be going back to 10w40 whatever at the next change. I can tell some difference in the cold start ups here in the cooler tempatures, taking longer to quiet down in the morning with the 20w50.
on all of my bike i never had a clutch slip. and amsoil was in each bike. Ive seen kawasakis that had defective clutch springs and oil made their clutch sensitive.
as far as oil temp my oil temp dipstick Showns lower temps when i ran amsoil. but not when caught in traffic. only when moving. if you look at the tests of amsoil related to metal to metal wear numbers. that alone shows less friction as far as metal to metal go. if wanna hold off on the rotella and wait for my report on how it tested that might make you feel better? go with what you trust! i only have 850 miles on the rotella and im going back to work tomorrow after being off for a long time so im not sure when i will have 2500 miles on the rotella but as soon as i do im sending a sample out to blackstone labs. |
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New Bohemia, VA | great chris. I'll wait a little while for the rotella. I'll need to change it soon but that will work out for the next change.
Edited by varyder 2010-08-24 11:30 AM
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Baltimore, Md | I am by no means an aggressive rider and always apply throttle as smoothly as I can. I will run the tach up, especially to make shifts above 3000 RPM and try to minimize the popping and backfiring. But not erratically or jerky. Nevertheless, with the Amsoil (my assumption as to cause) my clutch began to slip a lot. I checked the fluid in the reservoir and any other obvious causes and found nothing. After changing my oil back (removing the Amsoil), within about 100 miles the clutch issues cleared up completely and no other changes were made. So, I guess it has as much to do with individual clutch parts and their preferences as anything. |
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Sturbridge, Ma | What exactly is clutch slipage? Not sure what that really means? But i guess once this rain stop here in new england i will try it to see what you are saying. But I guess from what you are saying this can differ from bike to bike? |
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Dallas, Texas | Perhaps I will ride down to the Gulf Coast, and see if I can skim me some of that BP-leaked oil from the shore line. Figure that if it can survive in the Gulf, then it should be able to hold up in my Vision. Not sure if the clutch will slip, but it would be at a good price.
Edited by iluvink 2010-08-25 12:04 PM
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New Bohemia, VA | Eric_MA - 2010-08-24 9:55 PM
What exactly is clutch slipage? Not sure what that really means? But i guess once this rain stop here in new england i will try it to see what you are saying. But I guess from what you are saying this can differ from bike to bike?
...simple, it is the slipping of the clutch after it is to be engaged. It will happen when the adjustment is out or the clutch fricton material is minimal or gone or any other condition such as the oil in the case of an wet clutch as is on our Vision. It may not be noticable under normal roll but if you try to accelerate quickly the grip breaks and the clutch will slip. That is the claim also in using certain synthetic oils that will cause less than positive engagement, never noticable under normal operations.
I hope I 'splained that well enough without going into more detail. I also thought about this and the difference between bikes and the most crucial part of all of this is the clutch material itself. Assuming that Victory doesn't make clutch plates they have to outsource those. I don't know if there is a single manufacture they use or if they are common and just get the ones that meet the specs. Either way, these type of parts are made in batches and can have slight variations from batch to batch and can give a different performance across the same application. This may explain why some experience the clutch slippage more and others don't when using a full synthetic oil.
Just a thought and a bone to chew on for a while if any one cares to. |
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Baltimore, Md | To add to what varyder said, the most common symptom of a clutch slipping (losing grip, as he says) is when you open the throttle to accelerate and you see the RPM increase but the bike does not accelerate or pick up any speed. It's almost like rolling on the throttle with the clutch partially held in on purpose. Except, you didn't hold it in, it slipped on its own. |
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Sturbridge, Ma | Thanks! Ride it plenty yesterday and none of those features I felt. But I have to agree about from bike to bike.
There's allot things in life that work that way...I have an Htc EVO from launch day - you can't believe how many people
Have got issues based on the different batches...that helped me think of that with my bike thanks... |
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| I ve been usin Amsoil since 1991...I now use Victory Syn Blend...my engine runs cooler with it. |
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Amsoil at Polaris...
