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Tourer
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Grand Cane, LA | Does anyone know what weight the fork oil is in our Visions? I can't find it anywhere and the local dealers doesn't have a clue. Only thing he can give me is the part number. Also, does anyone know if Progressive or anyone else makes a fork spring kit and replacement rear shock for our bikes. |
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Visionary
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New Bohemia, VA | according to the polaris website is a "Victory Kingpin Fork Oil`s specific viscosity". It is not disclosed anywhere else that I can see and this topic has come up before. A guess would be 7.85 weight, but that is only a guess and a futile attempt to be humorous. Most such applications are 10 weight, or hydraulic fluid, but the word "specific" puts it up in the air. |
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Tourer
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Grand Cane, LA | Well I guess that means it's going to be trial and error time. Looking to stiffen up the dampning on the front end. I figured they would have used 10wt since that is usually the standard for factory bikes. |
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | 7.5 is the standard weight. If you wish to change your ride. Do so by changinging volume, and not weight.
Don't know of anyone doing front springs for the Vision, but if you are unhappy with the rear ride then change air pressure |
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Cruiser
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New Castle Delaware | Kevinx,
I went to make an appointment at my dealer for the 15K service and told them the manual calls for the fork oil to be changed. He said that is only a recommendation that it is up to me since they charge $95 per hr and it is a 3 hr job that would be $285 in addition to the rest of the 15k service.
I don't mind paying the money if it is necessary what is your opinion?
Thanks |
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New Bohemia, VA | bikerdave48 - i know you address your question to kevinx, and i know he'll answer but thought i'd chime in.
i had mine changed by the dealer at the 15,000 mile service for the tune of $300+ and yes that was just the fork oil change. i didn't do it again until 30,000 miles later and man what a difference. the bike dives some, but with fresh oil it is firm. i plan on doing mine ever 15,000 miles and it took me under an hour to do both tubes.
i recommend reading the manual thoroughly before doing anything. i did mine under an hour without the special tools and made my own measuring device to syphon out the excess fluid. The fork oil doesn't cost much, don't remember.
Edited by varyder 2009-09-04 7:36 AM
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New Castle Delaware | Thanks varyder I appreciate and respect your input. I'm not sure I would be up to the task myself. My 20 min jobs always seem to end up 1 or 2 hours so who knows on this job! ha So I will either pay this dealer or have another bike shop do it and keep the receipts. |
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LaPorte,Tx. | My dealer's service department said they changed the fork oil at 15000 miles on my bike, but I know for a fact he did not. The total for the full 15,000 mile service was $680. For the 30,000 mile service I know he changed the fork oil that time, the full 30,000 mile service charge was $1200+. By the time the 30,000 miles rolled around the front forks really needed the oil change. So I would say if you want to wait, do it around the 25,000 mile mark. Plus I would get a price up front on the fork oil change. A lot of dealer service departments have never done it before on a Vision, so they will get it done, but take longer than someone that's done it before. I would think a charge of more than $300 for the fork oil change would be excessive. |
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | varyder - 2009-09-04 7:35 AM
bikerdave48 - i know you address your question to kevinx, and i know he'll answer but thought i'd chime in.
i had mine changed by the dealer at the 15,000 mile service for the tune of $300+ and yes that was just the fork oil change. i didn't do it again until 30,000 miles later and man what a difference. the bike dives some, but with fresh oil it is firm. i plan on doing mine ever 15,000 miles and it took me under an hour to do both tubes.
i recommend reading the manual thoroughly before doing anything. i did mine under an hour without the special tools and made my own measuring device to syphon out the excess fluid. The fork oil doesn't cost much, don't remember.
You pulled the wheel, fender, and removed the forktubes. Then broke down the tubes, and cleaned the componants. Refilled the level, reinstalled the guts, reinstalled the tubes on the bikes, and then bolted the fender, and wheel back up in UNDER AN HOUR. Gotta raise the flag on that one.
BTW I do recomend it every 15K |
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New Castle Delaware | Thanks Kevinx I thought you would say that. Just wondered why the dealer would say it was not necessary at this time. |
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | bikerdave48 - 2009-09-04 12:47 PM
Thanks Kevinx I thought you would say that. Just wondered why the dealer would say it was not necessary at this time.
Because people go into massive sticker shock when they see the price of a service, and that gives them an option to bow out of a large portion gracefully[both dealer, and customer] |
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New Bohemia, VA | kevinx - 2009-09-04 1:26 PM
varyder - 2009-09-04 7:35 AM
bikerdave48 - i know you address your question to kevinx, and i know he'll answer but thought i'd chime in.
i had mine changed by the dealer at the 15,000 mile service for the tune of $300+ and yes that was just the fork oil change. i didn't do it again until 30,000 miles later and man what a difference. the bike dives some, but with fresh oil it is firm. i plan on doing mine ever 15,000 miles and it took me under an hour to do both tubes.
i recommend reading the manual thoroughly before doing anything. i did mine under an hour without the special tools and made my own measuring device to syphon out the excess fluid. The fork oil doesn't cost much, don't remember.
You pulled the wheel, fender, and removed the forktubes. Then broke down the tubes, and cleaned the componants. Refilled the level, reinstalled the guts, reinstalled the tubes on the bikes, and then bolted the fender, and wheel back up in UNDER AN HOUR. Gotta raise the flag on that one.
BTW I do recomend it every 15K
debate? of course!
i went 30,000 on my own accord the book says 15,000 which is what I plan on doing here on out.
qualify my under an hour. the front tire and fender was already removed so I could have the tire done. pulling the tubes is nothing, 3 clamp bolts, the cap and the nut with the spring. pump it all the number of times require to purge. fill, pump all the number of times to remove air. bleed down and reassemble. put tube back into clamps and tightened. did both in under an hour. I could probably from air time, pull the front brake calibers, front axle and wheel, remove fender and do the tubes and totally reassemble in an hour fifteen. |
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | I see nothing in there about pulling the cartridges, or cleaning anything. Also if you remove the tire/fender time it becaomes plausible. So basically you did the job in about 2 hours, and even then you did not do the job completely. |
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New Bohemia, VA | kevinx - 2009-09-04 3:34 PM
I see nothing in there about pulling the cartridges, or cleaning anything. Also if you remove the tire/fender time it becaomes plausible. So basically you did the job in about 2 hours, and even then you did not do the job completely.
dude, I went step by step to change the fluid according to the service manual. what are you splitting hairs with?
step 1 - 7 pg 12-16 & pg 12-17 and then skip to step 16 on reassembly 12-20 - 12 - 22.
2 hours? who cares? I've had the front off fender off several times now I can do it in my sleep. |
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | So you did pull the cartridges?? You did clean everything?? What did you use as a shaft holder?? Not that I doubt. I'm just curious as I have seen some ingenious inventions made for different jobs.
I am not splitting hairs, but when someone says they did a job that takes two hours plus to do PROPERLY in "Under an hour" I need to make sure that others understand that "Under an hour" means nothing of the sort. Minimizing this kind of jobs often gets people in over their heads. It also conveys a message that a job done half ass; is a job worth doing.
Edited by kevinx 2009-09-04 5:51 PM
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Tourer
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Grand Cane, LA | Geez, I didn't realize I was starting WWIII. Kevinx, the reason I asked about the oil weight was I know from the days when I used to ride dirt bikes we would change different weight oils depending on how hard of a set-up we needed for different tracks. Is the set-up inside the forks much different that it requires such a light oil? I prefer a firmer ride for more aggressive riding and thought it might help. |
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | atvtinker - 2009-09-04 6:25 PM
Is the set-up inside the forks much different that it requires such a light oil? I prefer a firmer ride for more aggressive riding and thought it might help.
You can tune in a little more firmness by going to a 10w, but beyond that you tend to move from "firm" to harsh. The thicker oil can not get through the regulator holes fast enough, and basically becomes a solid. Through experimentation I have found that increasing the oil level by 10mm[reduces air space] makes for a bike with less brake dive, but still has a comfortable ride. I have a friend that we moved to 10w along with 10mm of extra fluid, and he liked the cornering, but felt the front end "skipped" across road imperfections in turns. We ended up moving him back to stock oil, and I think 15mm increased level. |
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Tourer
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Grand Cane, LA | Thanks for the info. That's pretty much what I was looking for. I didn't realize just moving up to 10wt would make that much difference on these bikes. |
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| KevinX, so what are your thoughts on not pulling the cartridge and using a good quality fork cleaning fluid instead? I've been rebuilding and servicing forks for a LONG time and generally use pro action fork cleaning fluid to clean my competition tubes. On full disassemblies/rebuilds I've never found any crud that was missed, so your thoughts?
I've watched my dealer do the 15k service which he did NOT do right. May as well have not done it at all. That said the total job if you've done forks before should take a good 2 hours by my best estimate. Don't forget to losen the cap after loosening the top pinch bolt and before the lower bolts. I've found that after pumping the cartridge it is best to let the forks sit a good half hour and do it again before you take your height measurement. To stiffen it more add 5cc more maybe 10cc at most after you get the factory measurement. 10 makes quite a difference believe it or not.
I need a good internal look but I'll likely add a preload spacer to mine so it doesn't sag as much. I'll probably go with a stock progressive spacer which is not quite 1/8 thick. I'll post what it does for the sag and ride. |
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | I'll use cleaning fluid on the KTM forks when doing general service, but they get done with very few miles. On the Vics there is a tendancy to build up a bunch of crud at the base of the cartridge. The only way to get that stuff out is to take them apart, and clean physically |
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| Kev, thats interesting. Do you attribute the crud to assembly crud and initial wear or just contamination from the heating and cooling of the evacuated area sweating overtime and mileage?
As I stated earlier when my dealer "serviced" my forks (for lack of other term) they simply pulled the retainer bolt in the lower leg under the axle and drained, (Yep I know, half @$$ job). I'm going to redo the forks over the winter so I'll be pulling the cartridge simply due to the prior non-servicing that was done. But I'm wondering if fork cleaner wouldn't work just fine after initially removing the assembly crud?
Since you obviously will do more vision fork oil changes than I, I'd be interested in knowing what you find as you do more high mileage forks.
Finally, I appreciate the reply..... Thanks....... T |
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | I pretty much see the crap every time I do a set of Vic forks. It may be that with the KTM's I pull a vacume when assembling them, but I think it is more about the frequency of rebuilds. |
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Fork oil weight
