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Cruiser
Posts: 266
Hartland, , WI | Can Victory react like the PT boat they are...parts made in MN bikes assemble in IA...it's just that complex...a 10 year old company with less than 100,000 bikes on the road?
After reading these threads and comparing my thoughts with your thoughts (using the famous Vulcan Mind meld not to be confused with the old Jedi mind trick) there are a number of items on the wish list that people talk about, as in wishing Victory would include X, Y or Z. Almost all of which I see as a personal preference, more chrome, more colors, etc. and even I (a previous BMW LT owner) miss a few things, hydraulic center stand, security key fob (press a button locks all the trunks and arms the alarm) I even could use a couple more inches back on my handle bars (I thought that was just me until I started reading these threads)...I really needed the reverser option on the LT because of the seat height but with the Vision seat so low I haven't missed it a lick.
But....universally everyone recognizes the same thing I did immediately and am wondering if Victory ever has someone read these threads and not just from a "let's improve our product standpoint" but by making an extra buck too?
The comments about dealing with the engine HEAT range from..."that's what you get with a big V twin...to wear higher boots and thicker pants" so now the after market accessories kick in. And for $230 worth of plastic and two sided tape someone has figured out what we ALL will end up buying…the side vents...but at the cost of some handling performance at higher speeds as a number have reported.
I bought my Premier in the fall and rode it for an hour after work yesterday in 52 degree weather and loved the engine heat...and riding in the great state of "holy s**t it's cold" my spring and fall I will welcome that engine heat. But I read "James' Vegas Trip" review and really wonder how all you southern folk deal with the heat? James said he left Vegas and it was 107...plus the engine heat...YIKES!
So to the point....finally!
I could so see Victory modifying the sides of the lowers to include venting louvers to accomplish what the after market products do. My LT had them built in and not only did they work great they made the bike from the side view way cool! (Lame pun intended) Yes, the LT is water cooled but tell that to the inside of my legs when I'd be in stop and go traffic on a hot day...the water cooled engine only gets so hot but that magic number still melts my skin nicely thank you. I can so see Arlen Ness put on his creative motorcycle boots and design in a ram scoop system that doesn't screw up the handling!
So is Victory the nimble PT boat that can react to a design change quickly...or are they already trapped in the slow big turning Battleship mantra?
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Tourer
Posts: 301
Buffalo Grove,Ill | Vin, a lot of good points, but why would Vic build in vents when they can sell aftermarket side deflectors for 250 bucks as you had already brought up? You think Harley would make millions each year if they put all the chrome and leather goodies on at the factory? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 266
Hartland, , WI | The after market vents I saw were not from Victory...just thought the dealer found a supplier and MSRP them. If Victory sells the heat fix vents and already makes a nickle...I just got my answer! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 273
| Vinner, I know for a fact that Victory listens. I also know they monitor this board and other Victory/Polaris boards as well.
If they didn't listen why would there be a better audio system this year? Why would there be reverse this year?
It's only the second year for the bike and already they're making changes and offering options that a buyer can get to "personalize" his Vic.
If you don't think they listen, watch in the next two years for bigger saddlebags. And you know what, I'll even bet you see the heat issue address. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 266
Hartland, , WI | Smitty - 2008-10-25 11:49 AM
Vinner, I know for a fact that Victory listens. I also know they monitor this board and other Victory/Polaris boards as well.
If they didn't listen why would there be a better audio system this year? Why would there be reverse this year?
It's only the second year for the bike and already they're making changes and offering options that a buyer can get to "personalize" his Vic.
If you don't think they listen, watch in the next two years for bigger saddlebags. And you know what, I'll even bet you see the heat issue address.
Oh Smitty....you're not just telling me that to make me feel better are you? Because even if you were, you just did! God I hope you are right...I really don't think the list of meaninful improvements (for me at least) is that long to fix/address.
They got so much right, right out of the chute...comfortable seating position, handling, smoothness...everything to keep you on the bike for long periods of time...a HEAT fix and I could sleep on it!!!! |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Vinner1 - 2008-10-25 1:14 PM They got so much right, right out of the chute...comfortable seating position, handling, smoothness...everything to keep you on the bike for long periods of time...a HEAT fix and I could sleep on it!!!! Now why did you go and say that. You know what I miss about my GL1200? I could sleep on it. I can't do that on the Vision, or just ain't figured it out. On the GL1200, I could make me a pillow on the "tank" and put my legs across the saddle bags and catch a z or two. (zzZZZZ). It just doesn't work on the Vision. Oh, but wait, I don't get tired on the Vision like I did on the GL1200 now that I think about it. There I go again, more useless babble, off for another Diet Dew.... 
Edited by varyder 2008-10-25 1:40 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1158
Richmond, Virginia | My turn to chime in. While we are on the subject of "Victory Listening",, my main complaint with the company comes with Customer
Service or lack there of. History to warrant my complaint. In February of 08 (yes this same year), I purchased a brand new
Kingpin Tour from my dealership. There were some compatability issues with accessories offered and my dealer could not answer my
technical question. Whats a competant motorcycle guy to do? CONTACT THE MANUFACTURER. I went on the Victory website, scrolled down to the "contact Victory" area, typed in my questions as well as praises on the product. No response. Two months later, repeated the process..... NO response.... 1 more month later repeated the process, NO response.. Last month
I added to my garage a new 08 Vision Street Premium. Lets do the math to see how much money I have given Polaris....
Right from the get go, we have Ipod connector issues. Again, I attempted to contact Victory... no response, last week i attempted it again and this time wrote my inquiry with a bit more anger in its tone. To date,,,, still no response. So being in a retail business myself with products in the thousands of dollars, I understand the importance of Customer Service and Follow up. One can only deduce
from my 2008 history with Victory, the following ideas
1. Victory does not want to hear from we low life buyers
2. Once you sign on the dotted line, its your problem.
3. We only put that in the website for show, we really dont have anyone who manages our "contact" site
4. WE MISTAKENLY BELIEVE THAT BECAUSE WE ARE DOING WELL IN SALES WE DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT POST PURCHASE
ISSUES< WE CAN LET THE DEALER WORRY WITH THOSE PEOPLE.
Victory, if you are reading this. My purchase from you should have the same weight in importance now as the day I bought it.
If you dont wish to offer an option for us to talk with you, then TAKE IT OFF YOUR WEBSITE !
(even harley davidson offers better customer support than this) |
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Cruiser
Posts: 175
Colorado | hmmm can I add my thoughts to this thread? My apologies....Guys if your going to use email as a method to contacting Victory use it with caution and little expectations of ever receiving a response, especially if you send it to a generic email address such as info@companyname.com or webmaster@widget.com.
Why? Spam Filters are going to be your first hurdle.....since their email address is public facing understand that they get spammed from after market manufacturers, machinist looking for sales opportunities or work, nut jobs who use the email address as a method to get to porn sites, drug sales, male enlargement scams, some former king, prince or lawyer in Nigeria who needs to transfer funds and is willing to share in his good fortune if someone would simply provide a bank account number and a host of other freaks and nut jobs.
If you are lucky enough to come from a domain not blocked or heavily filtered you then have to get through the content filters for email. So don't let your emotions get the best of you and use a curse word because your email will get black holed or deleted without ever being seen.
The other potential problem is because they run lean they may outsource their web content and email to a third party who isn't as passionate about forwarding your email to the right contact, maybe they don't know who to forward it to....who knows.
You think you get junk mail...imagine if your address was public facing.....speaking of which now I need to delete mine from being seen on this thread with all the suggestion I just gave.
Pick up a phone and call corporate, however be kind you get more bees with honey than you do vinegar. Work through your dealer and get the email address and contact information of your Victory regional representative and try working through him/her.
Edited by badnvegas 2008-10-27 10:48 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 266
Hartland, , WI | badnvegas - 2008-10-27 9:44 PM
hmmm can I add my thoughts to this thread? My apologies....Guys if your going to use email as a method to contacting Victory use it with caution and little expectations of ever receiving a response, especially if you send it to a generic email address such as info@companyname.com or webmaster@widget.com.
Why? Spam Filters are going to be your first hurdle.....since their email address is public facing understand that they get spammed from after market manufacturers, machinist looking for sales opportunities or work, nut jobs who use the email address as a method to get to porn sites, drug sales, male enlargement scams, some former king, prince or lawyer in Nigeria who needs to transfer funds and is willing to share in his good fortune if someone would simply provide a bank account number and a host of other freaks and nut jobs.
If you are lucky enough to come from a domain not blocked or heavily filtered you then have to get through the content filters for email. So don't let your emotions get the best of you and use a curse word because your email will get black holed or deleted without ever being seen.
The other potential problem is because they run lean they may outsource their web content and email to a third party who isn't as passionate about forwarding your email to the right contact, maybe they don't know who to forward it to....who knows.
You think you get junk mail...imagine if your address was public facing.....speaking of which now I need to delete mine from being seen on this thread with all the suggestion I just gave.
Pick up a phone and call corporate, however be kind you get more bees with honey than you do vinegar. Work through your dealer and get the email address and contact information of your Victory regional representative and try working through him/her.
W.M. you have a serious right to be P.O.-ed....But I believe John's ideas are wise beyond his years. Love to hear how this one turns out!
Vinner
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | Every time I have emailed Victory I get the same standard response. See your dealer. The dealer I bought it from(and went out of business) an the one I use now have been great. Victory has sent me a survey for both dealers. Thats when I let them have it. I always give the dealer high marks but there is a section for additional comments. Thats where I let the company have it.
I cant understand how a young company with a very good product can miss so badly at the customer level. I quit making a wish list for accessories thinking they will probably be on back order. I paid $50 for a sevice manual and had to wait 2 months for it. Not good. I pay for something special order, I expect a week to ten days for processing and shipping. I talked to one dealer that was willing to submit a claim for my dimpled side bags but he warned me that the replacements arent packaged well and usually show up damaged. They can ship a $22k bike across country with out a scratch, but cant take an extra 5 min. to package replacement parts correctly.
I didnt buy a snowmobile or ATV from them, I bought a top of the line touring bike from them. I expect more. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | With the cat. in the head pipe the heat on the right side will always be there. Heat is used to reduce emissions. Eliminating the cat. will probably reduce heat and increase sound, but violate federal law. HD owners have been doing it for years. With the green police just around the corner, its not a chance worth taking. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1350
| Interesting but of course the same whines that have been going on since the '99. Of course the people complaining why something can't be done in 2 days for $20 have never designed a piece of equipment. Never worked with vendors. Yes, this post is just like the others I have posted for 10 years. Someone makes a part in their garage for a few bucks and believes everything thing in the world can be made for that price without having to use 35 cent and hour Chinese labor. Wait a few years and see what happens when the Chinese decide they want to make $20 an hour like their American customers. Think Japanese products. Their cars sell for about the same price as American cars now.
This made me think of one of floor workers coming in yesterday and asking about a part he made. 7 simple parts to make on the punch machine and then tap the holes. O.O took him 5 hours and then he thought he used the wrong program. Yes, our prices must include things like this or we wouldn't be open.
The next time you make a part in your garage write down the exact hours it took to make it and then use the average labor rates at a shop like $80 and see how much that part would cost. Of course add in materials cost too.
I am sure you did your homework and know that the PT boat wasn't all it was cracked up to be. How many changes did they make to get it working decently over the run? Kind of like the B-17E. The E stands for revision. That's 7 major changes to get her to where she did her job as needed. How many years did it take during the war?
I need to copyclip this post so I don't have to type it for the next thread like this...... |
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Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | BlueOx_USA,
(Harrumph and a Hearty Here! HERE! from a few listeners while other parts of the room we hear a low level grumbling of nay sayers and people that don't want to admit the truth when it is slung at them.)
I also have worked in an OEM environment, the part that may cost but 5 dollars made in the garage will grow to 100+ dollars after the engineers get done. After making verifying it is not going to fail from use and vibration with a minimum 4 to 1 safety factor calculated in to adhere to manufacturing standards so the company might have a leg to stand on when some yahoo breaks it and wants to sue the company or have it replaced for free.
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Vinner1 - 2008-10-25 11:57 AM .... And for $230 worth of plastic and two sided tape someone has figured out what we ALL will end up buying…the side vents...but at the cost of some handling performance at higher speeds as a number have reported. ... Not me! Not that my leg doesn't get warm, but I've yet to see the aggrevation. So there is many things that I will not buy because I just don't need them, and beside it really does distract from the bike for me. The bottomline is, well the bottomline. Victory needs to take in dollars by selling the new stuff and they have to have customers to sell new stuff. It seems that Polaris has found a forumula that works, though it really sucks for the dealers and customers. We've lost an edge to the satisfying the customer in many markets just to turn the fast dollar. Find the niche, make the buck and move on, forget about the customer. Polaris and Victory can't necessarily move on, and in their own business integrity I'm sure they pat themselves on the back on how good they do all around. I find that the bottomline is me, as for you it is you. I sorta kicked myself for dropping about $300.00 for following the service manual and have my fork fluid replaced at just a mere 10months old. Even the tech said it looked good and I shrugged when he said it should have gone longer. But he didn't call and tell me that, he changed the oil and held his hand out. Now, I asked for the service, and I got the service, bottomline. Did he make some money, I would say yes, but in the the scheme of running a business, that $300.00 doesn't pay for too much. But my hope is the trade off of having a decent dealer that will take care of me because I don't whine or haggle everytime I walk in the door, or at least I try not. In low market areas like motorcycles, the luxury items they are, you almost form a partnership with the maker. Writing real letters to the top, or making real phone calls to the maker make a big different, slow, but big different. I don't kid myself about comments made here on the bulletin board because it really is just chatter. On the same issue I've seen as many different responses to an issue as there are posters. Like the heat issue, there are many who have a problem and then there are others that don't. So if they did listen to this board, which I doubt, a piece of plastic was formed and marketed to those who want it. And through trial and error by the users with the maker, they finally made the right type of adhesive to stick to the sides of your premium motorcycle. I think the real reason they made it is that there are those, whether using the forum or not, wrote to Victory and said this bothers me. They then came to a short term solution and told the engineers to look into this to see how we can design the bike to fix this. I would say that the 2010's or 2011 bikes will have a redesign that will lessen this problem without sticking some aftermarket stuff on your bike. I have rode a bike with this contraption on it and it does work and work very well, I just don't have a need for it. If I did I would be asking them to figure out how to redirect the heat for these 28 degree mornings so I can be warm. So does Victory listen? Yes! But I don't think they take as much credibility in these forums as we think they do. There are real people who never even know there is a forum who will call or write Polaris/Victory and as those letters and calls pile in they would be just like the one we would right if we would write one. I think that is where they listen. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 143
Sparta, WI | The quickest response I have had from a manufacturer is when I emailed Dunlop about the 2" ridge on my Vision tires. Their response set me at ease. Communication is a common courtesy that we are owed the day we make our purhase. Good ongoing communication will make first purchase buyers life time specific company faithful. Victory has their work cut out for them.
H-D has excellant customer service and part of the reason is the focus on motorcycles. With ATV's, snowmobiles and motorcycles it is tough matching the customer service of a competitor that focuses on just motorcycles. Chasing more than one rabbit at a time can be exhausting.
I would like to see Victory break away into more of a motorcycle specific company. Maybe someday......... Once that is done they will be on their way to taking on H-D and not until then. Until then they will not be able to make the headway they are forecasting. They will compete but never dominate. To be able to knock H-D (stands for Humpty-Dumpty) off the wall it will take a concentrated effort and above all kick-a$$ customer service.
Then again maybe Polaris is just fine with Victory being an "also ran" motorcycle company.
Just my $24,500 worth.
Edited by Minnow 2008-10-31 3:13 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 266
Hartland, , WI | BlueOx USA - 2008-10-31 5:42 AM
Interesting but of course the same whines that have been going on since the '99. Of course the people complaining why something can't be done in 2 days for $20 have never designed a piece of equipment. Never worked with vendors. Yes, this post is just like the others I have posted for 10 years. Someone makes a part in their garage for a few bucks and believes everything thing in the world can be made for that price without having to use 35 cent and hour Chinese labor. Wait a few years and see what happens when the Chinese decide they want to make $20 an hour like their American customers. Think Japanese products. Their cars sell for about the same price as American cars now.
This made me think of one of floor workers coming in yesterday and asking about a part he made. 7 simple parts to make on the punch machine and then tap the holes. O.O took him 5 hours and then he thought he used the wrong program. Yes, our prices must include things like this or we wouldn't be open.
The next time you make a part in your garage write down the exact hours it took to make it and then use the average labor rates at a shop like $80 and see how much that part would cost. Of course add in materials cost too.
I am sure you did your homework and know that the PT boat wasn't all it was cracked up to be. How many changes did they make to get it working decently over the run? Kind of like the B-17E. The E stands for revision. That's 7 major changes to get her to where she did her job as needed. How many years did it take during the war?
I need to copyclip this post so I don't have to type it for the next thread like this......
Sorry dude...you missed my point totally. For a first release of a new product it has only one major area of improvement...and yes the Mustang D with drop tanks finally got the 17' to Germany and back with the Merlin...so I don't need a history lesson.
500 total employes is not a big company so I would hope they could react quicker was my only hope....and do the math $230...I know the numbers from distibution to dealer....at ton of MSRP that the dealer gets when charging it. And if you think that the company making the vents and getting them purchase by distribution is not making money...including what they need to recoop from R&D...and first whiffs and mfg. scrape nice tries.....
Money was not my point....do they listen to experienced product users is.
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | The cost of their parts and accessories is not the problem. Getting them is. I dont mind paying extra for a quality part. But, dont ask me to prepay for a special order and the tell me its on backorder. And when it finally does get here, its damaged. Not the best use of my money.
With Victory, if its not on the shelf, I dont buy it. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 87
Lusby,Md | Here's the e-mail address of the engineering department, I did have luck alittle bit when I complained about the ipod cord not attaching right and staying attached,no response lately,victory.engineering@polarisind.com,try it ,it might work.Good luck. |
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PT boat vs. Battleship...Does Victory Listen?
