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Cruiser
Posts: 88
Lavon, TX | This past weekend, I swapped out my VFC-III for a PCV w/AutoTune, and swapped my S1L1 pipes for S1L2 pipes. Not that I had any complaints with my former setup, but I’m getting ready to install Torque Tubes, IAV, and 2-into-1 Sideburner 4inch exhaust on my wife’s 2008 Vegas Low – and she needed a fuel adder to compensate (Lloyd has provided me with the proper VFC-III settings for her new setup). I loaded a PCV base map provided by Lloyd for my particular Vision setup: Lloydz VM1 Cams, VIF, AIS, IAV, Rev Ext ECU, S1L2 exhaust. As I performed my install, a few things became clearer as to how all of this operates: the base map, with AutoTune enabled, contains target AFR settings per cylinder in a 2D array of rpm vs. throttle position; it also contains 2 to 4 deg of timing advance at the upper rpm/throttle position corner; finally, the base map has “ECM fuel delta” settings (additional fuel to be added/subtracted over the ECM’s dynamically computed amount) as well as trim values (initially zero) per cylinder in 2D arrays of rpm vs. throttle position. My assumption is that the target AFR and timing advance settings are based on the engine itself – 106inch Victory V-twin – and do not change due to a particular bike’s setup. The ECM fuel delta settings are the approximate adjustments that are needed to the ECM’s dynamically computed amounts in order for the bike to run at the target AFR settings - these are based on the bike’s specific setup (and someone had to originally build this table on a dyno). The AutoTune AT-300 provides wideband O2 sampling from each cylinder and then computes the trim values which are needed to adjust those approximate ECM fuel delta values so as to bring the measured AFR in-line with the target AFR. These trims will only be computed as I drive my bike through each of the rpm / throttle position cells; thus, it will require some variable riding conditions before I see non-zero values in all of the trim cells. When I “accept” the trims, the ECM fuel delta settings are changed by these trim amounts and the trims are re-zeroed. Then, I can ride some more – fine-tuning my AFR performance curve even further. My concerns: the environment (elevation, cylinder head temperature, outside air temperature, humidity) must remain constant in order to minimize the variance in the ECM's dynamically computed amount of fuel for a given rpm / throttle position (and thus be able to converge on the “ideal” ECM fuel delta value). Once the fuel table is “dialed in”, is it safe to assume that changes to the environment are adequately handled by the stock ECM (w/o the need for any additional AutoTuning)? Is there any conflict between the timing advance from the Rev Ext ECU and the PCV timing advance table; i.e., should I zero the PCV timing advance table since the Rev Ext ECU already adjusts the timing? Don’t I also need the Rev X-tend set to 6400rpm on the PCV in order to continue the AutoTuning all the way to the revised redline? Will switching to Lloyd’s high compression pistons require any changes to the target AFR and timing advance tables? I assume that going to his 116 Big Bore kit would necessitate an entirely new PCV map. I note that the PCV allows for either analog engine temperature (CHT) or pressure (MAP) input, as well as speed sensor input; has anyone successfully utilized any of these inputs? Activation of analog engine temp merely allows for a delay of AutoTune activation and/or Startup Fuel adjustment; alternately, either/both of these can be controlled via delay times. Activation of analog pressure input allows for the use of rpm per MAP tables rather than rpm vs. throttle position tables. Activation of speed sensor allows for the use of separate tables per gear. Are any of these worth the trouble of setting them up? Right now, I’m just not seeing it. How do I run the self-test on the AutoTune wideband O2 sensors; i.e., where is the function button that I’m supposed to press and hold?
Edited by charbin 2012-06-04 3:24 PM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 44
Middleburg, Fl. | A lot of great info and questions here; I am interested. Too bad no one seems to have any input...
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| A simple search will reveal that there are multiple threads here and on other sites that go into lengthy discussions about the virtues of the PC5 and Autotune units..... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 88
Lavon, TX | Actually, I performed a comprehensive search on vision-riders.com, thevmc.com, and thevog.net trying to find these answers - to no avail.
AFR: Is it true that the target AFRs are based on the engine itself, whereas the fuel deltas are what get built from dynoing, and will vary based on your particular intake and exhaust? In other words, my AutoTune will automatically tune the fuel deltas to where they need to be in order to reach the target AFR settings - but my resulting tune will only be as good as my target AFRs were. How do I know if/when I would ever need to change my targets? I have not found a discussion of this.
test environment: Isn't the ability to converge on minimal trims highly dependent on maintaining a constant test environment? So then, can the stock ECM fully compensate for environmental changes from the original static test environment? I saw some discussion by KevinX on this, but am not sure that the topic was fully covered.
Lloyd's rev extended ECU: How do the timing changes from the Lloyd's rev extended ECU work with the timing advances found in the upper corner of the timing table that Lloyd provided? Do I need to zero the timing table to keep from over-advancing the timing? What are the symptoms that I would notice if my timing is too far advanced? Do I need to activate the rev X-tend of the PCV also, in order to maintain the correct trimming all the way to 6400rpm? I have not found a discussion of this.
using PCV analog inputs: I note that the PCV allows for either analog engine temperature (CHT) or pressure (MAP) input, as well as speed sensor input; has anyone successfully utilized any of these inputs? Activation of analog engine temp merely allows for a delay of AutoTune activation and/or Startup Fuel adjustment; alternately, either/both of these can be controlled via delay times. Activation of analog pressure input allows for the use of rpm per MAP tables rather than rpm vs. throttle position tables. Activation of speed sensor allows for the use of separate tables per gear. Are any of these worth the trouble of setting them up? Right now, I?m just not seeing it.
How do I run the self-test on the AutoTune wideband O2 sensors; i.e., where is the function button that I?m supposed to press and hold?
Again, sorry if these have been answered before; but my searching did not reveal the answers that I sought. And so I posted this to all three forums - it is quite clear that vision-riders is the "most active" forum that we Vision riders have.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| You aren't getting much response because this has all been covered before.... just sayin...
http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=10973&st...
and
http://www.victoryforums.com/gtsearch.php?cx=partner-pub-7865546952...
Edited by Turk 2012-06-07 7:31 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | What has power commander said about your questions? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 88
Lavon, TX | Haven't contacted PC tech support yet - was hoping to hear something from Marc, Rlyan, KevinX, and any others with personal experience using the PCV w/AutoTune on a Vision with Lloyd's mods. Don't expect to get much advice from the PC tech support on using Lloyd's rev-extended ECU or on connecting the PCV analog inputs to a Vision. Heck, they cannot even assure me that the PCV will work properly on my 2008 model... |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Yeah your pretty much s.o.l. On this subject... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1117
Northeast Ohio | Charbin,
First off, nice setup on the VV.
I don't think you are getting many responses because the information you are asking is advanced in nature. Most folks are just looking for the base level tune. You are in the finite area now. 
I would 100% agree with your assumptions and statements in paragraphs 2-4.
For those that don't know, the PC-V, with or without AutoTune, is a piggyback fuel and ignition controller. Piggyback type systems intercept the connect component (fuel injector & ignition coil) signals and "alter" them before it gets sent to the respective component. The PC-V will ALWAYS have the final say for the fuel injector values and ignition coil signal inputs (ignition coil is only above 2500 rpm). Granted, you can zero out a value in the respective table and allow the Stock ECU information to pass-thru the PC-V, but is still goes through it before it hits the component.
Charbin question - "My concerns: the environment (elevation, cylinder head temperature, outside air temperature, humidity) must remain constant in order to minimize the variance in the ECM's dynamically computed amount of fuel for a given rpm / throttle position (and thus be able to converge on the ?ideal? ECM fuel delta value)." Not sure there is much "dynamically computed amounts" coming from the stock ECU. My experience with closed loop ECUs in cars from years ago didn't show much, if any, dynamic fueling values. Most of the big changes were if a knock sensor detected knock, it would retard the timing way back in order to avoid detonation. To comment on your question - for ideal, yes. Basically, ANY changes to the environment - including the octane level of the fuel you are using.
In this statement "Once the fuel table is ?dialed in?, is it safe to assume that changes to the environment are adequately handled by the stock ECM (w/o the need for any additional AutoTuning)?" "Dialed in" will still have alterations to the stock ECU in PC-V fueling and ignition tables (+ or - values from what the Stock ECU thinks it should be). So if you turned off AutoTune, your stock ECU thinks it is sending it directly to the fuel injectors and ignition coil, however, it first passes thru the PC-V and the PC-V sends the "dialed in" values to the components. Always...
Charbin question - "Is there any conflict between the timing advance from the Rev Ext ECU and the PCV timing advance table; i.e., should I zero the PCV timing advance table since the Rev Ext ECU already adjusts the timing?" Do you know for sure if Lloyds Rev Extend does anything to the ignition timing? I thought it just extended the redline limit. Even if it does, what has the final say? PC-V. So if Lloyd adds 2 degrees of ignition advance to the stock ECU and you add 2 in PC-V, the ignition will be advanced by 4 degrees. I think you need to find out if Lloyd alters the ignition values to be sure.
Charbin question - " Don?t I also need the Rev X-tend set to 6400rpm on the PCV in order to continue the AutoTuning all the way to the revised redline?" I don't have Lloyds Rev Extend for the stock ECU. Lloyd set my PC-V rev extend value to 6000 and I have fuel, AFR and trim table values for the 5000+ RPM areas. So I assume you should do the same. If you don't, I would think the rev limit on the PC-V will be enforced, thus negating your Lloyd Rev Extend all together.
Charbin question - "Will switching to Lloyd?s high compression pistons require any changes to the target AFR and timing advance tables?" I would think so. Lloyd would be the best person to give you initial high compression AFR targets. Ignition is one I am not messing with. No need to detonation, etc. I don't see these big v-twins getting much gains from it. Maybe a few HP... Perfect if you are building a drag bike trying to squeeze every last ounce of HP & TQ from it.
Charbin question - "I assume that going to his 116 Big Bore kit would necessitate an entirely new PCV map?" 10 cu in larger than stock = 10.9% more cylinder volume than stock = ~10% more fuel for the same AFR values (if they are the same AFR values for the 116) = yes you will need a new map.
The last full paragraph around utilizing CHT or MAP input is an advanced feature and most street folks will never use these. I doubt these will yield big results, if any on our bikes. I believe a lot of these features will be best utilized on high HP turbocharged or nitrous applications.
I'll look for the function button on my AT-300 tonight when I get home and report back.
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Cruiser
Posts: 88
Lavon, TX | John - thank you very much for responding. Yes, I’ve been told many times that I ask "advanced" (or, complex; or, unique) questions...
Guess that it’s just my "engineer personality" (or, so says my wife)
And yes, I’ve been told numerous times that my post/e-mails are too long and ask too many things at once…oh, well. Let’s not forget - I was the one to post how to "build your own" sequential blinkers... So, your map is only going to be as good as those target AFR settings which you start with - the AutoTune will "trim" whatever fuel cell values that you are starting with (no matter how bad; but, unless fairly close, this will take many iterations of trim acceptance) in order to obtain your target AFRs (assuming that you keep your test environment constant). I saw where some folks were adjusting their AFR settings - I am still trying to understand how you know when and by how much any leaning/enriching is needed; AutoTune is not going to help here - this is done by hand-editing the AFR tables. Yes, I am trying to self-educate by performing general internet searches on detecting rich/lean symptoms. As for the "dynamically computed amounts" coming from the stock ECU due to environmental changes - I was referring to things like tuning near sea-level then visiting the Colorado mountains, tuning in the hot/dry summer then cruising around during the cold/wet "winter". Since I know that the stock ECU capably handles these kinds of changes on a stock bike (which is WHY we want fuel-injection as opposed to carburetor), and since the PCV is a piggyback (simply applying a set of delta values to the stock fuel and timing), the "dialed-in" map will continue to work correctly, with no re-tuning required. As for timing adjustment from Lloyd’s Rev Ext ECU - no, I do not know for sure; but my prior searches have certainly shown indication that the popular opinion is that timing has been adjusted, along with extending the redline limit. Again, since the map that Lloyd provided me had timing advanced in the upper rpm/throttle position range, I am concerned about the additive effect from both devices. What are the symptoms that I would notice if my timing were too far advanced? Yes, I am trying to self-educate by performing general internet searches on detecting this, also. To be safe, I can always just go ahead and zero the PCV timing table - but figured that someone on this board has a similar setup and already knows the correct answer. As for fuel adjustments in the extended redline range - I have Lloyd’s Rev Ext ECU, enjoy it, and do not want to lose that extended redline limit. So, I was simply asking if I needed to get an activation code, set my PCV Rev X-tend to 6400rpm, and populate the AFR, fuel, and timing table rows on up to 6500rpm (duplicate of the 6000rpm row?). I’ll find out this answer as soon as I complete the install, and all of this rain stops - but figured that someone on this board already knows the correct answer. I was curious if anyone on this board had attempted to connect any of the PCV analog inputs. Yes, I figured that none of these would provide significant results - but I do suspect that my ideal 1st gear fuel map would differ quite a bit from my 6th gear fuel map. So, my question was, has anyone tried it yet? I had wanted to test my new wideband O2 sensors before I install them into my exhaust, but cannot seem to find that function button that I am supposed to press and hold on the AT-300. I figured that someone on this board had already found out how to do this. Thanks to Turk, I did uncover a new resource today - victoryforums.com. I have joined, and read through the info posted there. I did find additional info which I had not seen before, so again - thank you for that pointer (hey, that’s what using these boards is all about!).
Edited by charbin 2012-06-07 2:48 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 323
Troy, NY | Keep posting very informative!!! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1117
Northeast Ohio | Chris,
A little background and context of my knowledge - I used to have a 600+ HP Subaru STi - turbo (she ran 11.2 @ 130MPH) and have tried various forms of engine management (piggyback (TurboXS UTEC), reflash (Cobb AccessPort) and complete stand-alone (Hydra)). I knew these cars inside and out (Mass Air Flow, Manifold Absolute Pressure, knock, crank, throttle position, etc). I don't know what our bikes have to compensate for environmental changes. I have yet to see, or read, about anything but a few sensors. But to be honest, I haven't looked very hard either.
As for your emails, not too long and thank you for your blinker instructions. Now if you can figure out why my 2011 cruise won't work Vision-Mods setup, you'd be my new best friend.
Paragraph 4 - Bear in mind that, by default, AutoTune isn't set to adjust at 100% trim value, but it can be set that high if you don't want to have many iterations (I don't trust it that much - didn't trust it with my Hydra on the Subaru either). Mine is set to adjust up to 20% (could be the default, but didn't check before Lloyd worked his magic).
Paragraph 5 - You will never know the ideal AFR without a dyno and better engine management. The dyno will help you to know if you are adding or removing HP throughout the RPM and load ranges based on your changes. However, that is where it all stops. Without having the visibility into other sensor data on the bike (knock sensor if it has it) you will never know if you are truly at the optimal limit.
Paragraph 6 - As stated above, I don't know all the compensating control points we have on these bikes. Regardless, your logic is correct.
Paragraph 7 - The most common is knocking. Igniting the air fuel mixture on the up stroke is the big problem. It's the equivalent of hitting the top of piston with a hammer. Not good. Some light reading if you trust Wikis -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_timing
Paragraph 8 - How are you reading your RPMs above 6000? Our tachs only go to 6000. Are you winging it or letting it bump up against the rev limiter? Without the PCV Rev X-tend activation code from Power Commander, it'll only go to 6000 rpms. So if you want to spin the motor higher, you will indeed need the code. According to my Lloyd created map, my target AFRs are the same between 40%-100% throttle & 6000-6500 rpm.
Paragraph 9 - I haven't, but you have me interested in this concept.
Paragraph 10 - Looking to my AT-300 - on the face of the unit (where the red AutoTune decal is applied), the lower right corner, there is one led on the left and a recessed button(press with a ball point pen?). That is the ONLY thing that even resembles a button. I didn't go thru the exercise as I didn't want to calibrate my O2s (too lazy to remove them).
Edited by ScoreBo 2012-06-07 6:51 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 88
Lavon, TX | John,
I rode my bike for a year - stock with the exception of S1L1 pipes and associated download, which the dealer had already installed before my purchase. Then, I had KevinX come out and stay for the weekend - doing his famous cam party. He installed VM-1 cams. VIP, and VFCIII. Wow - it was like I had bought a different, more powerful bike. However, I pretty much lost the use of 1st and 2nd gear - always banging against the rev limiter. It got to be frustrating - and was messing up my ability to race well. Not to mention that I also kept bumping into that 122mph speed limiter...
So, I purchased Lloyd's Rev Ext ECU. I lost my S1L1 download, but the range of the gearing spread out - to the point where it felt like I had a different bike yet again. Honestly, I think that the ECU reprogramming should be required as part of the cam install. I've enjoyed this setup for about three years! No more banging against the rev limiter, and I still have not found the top speed of my bike - I've been in the lower 140's (per GPS) a few times, but then become quite concerned about exceeding that 120mph rating on my Dunlop E3's...
I have had some backfiring upon downshifting - so, I installed the AIV. Then, I saw that Lloyd had come out with the 41mm AIS - sure enough, it gave me even more power in the lower rpm range - horsepower is an addiction!! And, I saw that the foam in my VIP had disintegrated - so I also installed the VIF. After all of this, I noticed that the bike was running about 10deg hotter than normal (sounded like I was running lean), but then at higher speeds the throttle felt kind of mushy (sounded like I was running rich). My wife was wanting the 2-into-1 Sidewinder 4inch pipe on her Vegas Low, and I had already purchased the Torque Tubes for her bike - so, I figured that I'd pull off my VFCIII and use it as her fuel adder. That would give me the excuse to install my PCV w/AutoTune and also my S1L2 pipes on my bike.
Now, I just want to make sure that I do not go back to banging against the rev limiter again in the lower gears. I received my PCV rev X-tend code yesterday, so both will be set for 6400rpm limit. Still debating about whether I should zero out the PCV timing advance table.
As for calibrating with the AT-300 - since we have two sensors tied into one controller, I had assumed that both of those were LEDs. I have not yet made the power connection. I had tried poking both with a paper clip, and neither felt like they moved any. I would prefer to validate that both of my sensors are "good" before I subject them to hot exhaust gases. I know that the sensors will rapidly deteriorate if left in the exhaust stream w/o their heaters being operational.
Thus far, all I've done is verify that my bike still cranks and idles smoothly at 1000rpm.
I have considered buying the LCD-200 display, but am not sure it is worth the expense. Does anyone have a recommendation on this? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| My understanding is that the rev X tend feature of the PC-V will conflict with Lloydz re-programmed ECU. In what way, I'm not sure. I do know that the PC-V rev feature is an additive component, NOT a specific rpm limit. You will notice that their are different rev limits on the Vision depending on what gear you are in. The built in PC-V xtend option is 500rpm OVER the current limit from the ECM. So, in 1st, I believe the stock ECM cutout is 5250rpm. The PC-V rev xtend takes that to 5750 (5250+500) in 1st gear. However, the rev limit in 4th gear is 5500rpm. The PC-V extends that to 6000rpm. So..... I would presume that with Lloydz 6400 rpm ECU, that activating the PC-V rev extend feature would take it to 6900 rpm.
As for the tables, they should allow tuning up to the aggregate of the ECM and PC-V combined rpm capacity.
Tuning is an art. Determining what works and what doesn't, takes time and experimentation. I have put a LOT of time into tuning maps on the older PC-3 usb, and the current PC-V/AT setup. I believe I have come up with an excellent map that eliminates popping almost entirely ( I say almost, even though I can't recall having a "pop" or backfire in a couple weeks), while providing strong and smooth acceleration with good heat management. The "art" to it, is where to let the AT do it's thing, and where to just leave the ECM unencumbered.
Also, the newer versions of the firmware/software allow for separate enrichment/enleanment ranges, which can be used to control decel from adversely affecting the fuel values, if done correctly.... just sayin... hint hint.
If you need a reference on my PC skills, ask Mr. X
Edited by Turk 2012-06-08 7:50 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1117
Northeast Ohio | Turk,
To be honest, I am confused by this whole PC-V Rev X-Tend feature. I read the PDF from Power Commander that states what you said (not nearly as specific as your explanation). But my current non-Rev X-Tended PC-V has the rev limit at 6000 rpm (see attached screenshot). I certainly did not active / buy this feature, but maybe Lloyd enabled this for me.
(Rev X-Tend.jpg)
Attachments
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 Rev X-Tend.jpg (24KB - 1 downloads)
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Cruiser
Posts: 88
Lavon, TX | No, Lloyd did not activate anything - that's how my PCV came from the factory (showing the 6000rpm Rev Limit). I sent off and got the Load Key (+400rpm over stock) to take me on up to 6400rpm Rev Limit - to match what Lloyd's Rev Ext ECU is providing. Of course, now I'm worried that the PCV Rev Xtend could allow me to go on past Lloyd's limit - based on Turk's comments above. However, I would assume that the PCV is monitoring the bike's actual RPM, and thus would clamp me at my newly specified 6400rpm Rev Limit. Still wondering about the timing advance, also. Will get to try some more over the weekend. Surely do hate it that work gets in the way of having fun...
Edited by charbin 2012-06-08 9:58 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1117
Northeast Ohio | I have hit the 6000 rpm limit. It'll cut you off. I personally believe the PC-V rev limit will win. It does in my case (stock ecu). |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| ScoreBo - 2012-06-08 9:39 AM
Turk,
To be honest, I am confused by this whole PC-V Rev X-Tend feature. I read the PDF from Power Commander that states what you said (not nearly as specific as your explanation). But my current non-Rev X-Tended PC-V has the rev limit at 6000 rpm (see attached screenshot). I certainly did not active / buy this feature, but maybe Lloyd enabled this for me.
Someone clearly enabled it.
The 6k limit is a misnomer, it's actually a 500rpm increase over stock, so with 2nd-5th being limited at 5500rpm, it 'effectively' is a 6k limit in those gears. But in 1st and I believe 6th, the stock limit is lower, so the total limit with the PC is also lower... You can request rev limit increases from Dynojet with an online form that you fax in to them. They then email you the "key" (or code) to load in your above screen cap. No, the keys are not cumulative. New key replaces old key. The unit comes with the default 500 rpm key available simply by checking the box to activate it. I requested a 1k increase key, so my PC5 limit is now 1k over stock, so 1st is 6250, and 2nd-5th is 6500.
Edited by Turk 2012-06-08 10:10 AM
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Cruiser
Posts: 88
Lavon, TX | Turk - when I filled out and faxed in that form, it stated that the max that I could request was 500rpm over stock. I asked for 400rpm over stock, so that I would (hopefully) align with Llloyd's Rev Ext ECU. I took my PCV out of the box, and installed the 1.0.6.1 desktop sw and then upgraded the firmware to 1.0.8.8 - before I ever played around with it. When I clicked on the Rev X-tend option, I got the dialog that John posted above. I then went and found the form to fill out and fax in order to move this to 6400rpm. I have not yet typed in my Load Key, so I cannot say if it now shows 6400rpm as my Rev Limit. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that this limit only applies for gears 2-5, and that gears 1 and 6 will still be lower? Also, I've never pushed Lloyd's Rev Ext ECU to the hardstop in all gears - so I cannot definitely say if he locks down at 6400rpm in all 6 gears (but that WAS my understanding when I purchased the unit). |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| charbin - 2012-06-08 10:16 AM
Turk - when I filled out and faxed in that form, it stated that the max that I could request was 500rpm over stock. I asked for 400rpm over stock, so that I would (hopefully) align with Llloyd's Rev Ext ECU. I took my PCV out of the box, and installed the 1.0.6.1 desktop sw and then upgraded the firmware to 1.0.8.8 - before I ever played around with it. When I clicked on the Rev X-tend option, I got the dialog that John posted above. I then went and found the form to fill out and fax in order to move this to 6400rpm. I have not yet typed in my Load Key, so I cannot say if it now shows 6400rpm as my Rev Limit. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that this limit only applies for gears 2-5, and that gears 1 and 6 will still be lower? Also, I've never pushed Lloyd's Rev Ext ECU to the hardstop in all gears - so I cannot definitely say if he locks down at 6400rpm in all 6 gears (but that WAS my understanding when I purchased the unit).
That form only says up to 500rpm to cover their backsides. You can request and fill in anything you want, as long as you sign away holding them responsible for damage. That form is merely a legal waiver.
The stock OEM ECU on our bikes has a lower rev limit in 1st and 6th gears. The PC5 rev xtend increases the limit by a fixed amount over stock. Therefore, with a PC5 and stock ecu, the rev limit will always be lower in 1st and 6th than the other gears. I have not had a chance to personally experiment using the revXtend feature with Lloydz' reprogrammed ECU. But, in theory, it should function the same way. The default 500 revXtend would add onto the 6400 rev limit programmed into Lloydz unit, yielding a 6900rpm limit. I would highly advise AGAINST activating the rev-Xtend feature at all in conjunction with Lloydz ECU !! Just let the ECU do it's thing. I have also heard of conflicts with the rev-xtend activated with Lloydz ECU, but I don't know the nature of those conflicts.
By requesting the 400rpm rev increase, you are effectively dropping your max limit in 2nd-5th down to 5900rpm! The 400rpm key you get will REPLACE the existing 500rpm key already on the device. Your limit will be lower, not higher. Again, the rev xtend keys are NOT cumulative!
How do I know this? Because initially, I request a 750rpm key using the form. That gave me a 1st gear cutout around 6k rpm, and 2nd was 6250. Clearly it replaced the default 500 revXtend, otherwise, my 1st gear limit would have been 6500, but it wasn't. I decided I wanted to be able to shift just past 6k in 1st at times, so I sent another form requesting the 1k increase. The 1k increase replaced the 750 key (which replaced the stock 500 key). Now my 1st is 6250rpm.
If you want 6400rpom in first gear, you will need to request a key for an increase of 1150rpm over stock ( I believe stock 1st is limited to 5250 rpm). But, that will give you a rev limit of 6650rpm in 2nd through 5th! I simply made it easy on myself and requested a 1k increase. My new rev limiter is 1st) 6250, 2nd-5th) 6500, and 6th) 6250.
Hope that helps.
Edited by Turk 2012-06-08 10:49 AM
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PCV w/AutoTune observations and questions
