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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Who ever is going to Sprite Lake this week end will have the chance to make a statement to Victory. I was thinking we could buy a white T shirt and with a marker write on it Victory come out with a clothing line Victory make custom T shirts Victory we want vision shirt Victory we want Cross shirt What ever you think up would work and if there were a thousand of us I think they would notice us
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1117
Northeast Ohio | I posted a concern about their lack of appearel on their Facebook page. Their response, "We want to focus on motorcycles, not clothing." This is the ONLY thing that makes me jealous of Harley. | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| I love the fact we don't all wear the same manufactured apparel. Another pathetic
Thing all the sheep that ride Harley have to do together. | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| I love the fact we don't all wear the same manufactured apparel. Another pathetic
Thing all the sheep that ride Harley have to do together. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 575
Spirit Lake IA "Birthplace of Victory Motorcycles" | I agree with Victory's stance. Focus on building the best bikes in the world. Period
In our free market society, someone will step up and make a deal with Polaris to sell officially licensed clothing and merchandise, but there needs to be significant demand. Unfortunately, if all of us bought a couple of cool new Victory shirts at today's market price, it would not likely be enough demand to keep a new company afloat. Once, we double or triple the number of Victories out there, it may be worth someone's while. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Victory will run the company the way they want obviously, it's there company. But they are missing out on alot of money by not doing product line clothing and merchandise. Harley makes tens of millions that way..............Better for the company and even reinvestment for the product line....... | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | yeah, I see how the HD clothing line and merchandise kept them out of a bail-out. I hope Victory sticks with building a better product and not worry with that anciliary crap that does no more than advertise for them.
Just as the boss in "Cool Hand Luke" when one asked Luke, "doesn't he ever talk?" and the boss shot the bird with a single shot. Luke replied "I think he just did." My Vision makes a statement just sitting in the driveway, but makes a bigger statement with every mile I roll.
Edited by Cap'n Nemo 2011-08-17 6:51 AM
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Cruiser
Posts: 92
Fort Walton Beach, FL | Why would you want to have Polaris start in the T-shirt business... they are having enough problems in the bike business. They should spend more time and energy after the sale working to keep their present owner base happy... like working closer with their dealer network to fix the bikes that they have already sold... build up their parts inventory so that it doesn't take a month to get a replacement part... send their customer service personnel to "manners" school... etc.
If you think that you have any voice in swaying Victory to do any of this, you ARE WRONG... they will continue to do what they are doing because right now they are reaping the benefits in doing so. In about 3-5 years they will start asking themselves... "What did we do wrong" when their sales start falling off on repeat buyers because of the sorry ass state of their dealer training. I for one think they build a good bike, but it has had problems that Polaris is determined to ignore and it will come back to bite them in the ass... I tell everyone who swarms around my bike that it is the first and last Polaris product that I will ever purchase and that even though the bike is ok the company support and attitude sucks worse than HD's. It's exactly that attitude which got HD in the bad position it was in when AMF bailed them out... and is exactly why they are once again scratching their collective heads and wondering "what happened". Good luck Polaris... you may survive for now, but your doomed long run as long as Mr Wine is running your company and your customer service is sooo very bad.... KARMA's a _________! | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| Cap'n Nemo - 2011-08-17 6:48 AM yeah, I see how the HD clothing line and merchandise kept them out of a bail-out. I hope Victory sticks with building a better product and not worry with that anciliary crap that does no more than advertise for them. Just as the boss in "Cool Hand Luke" when one asked Luke, "doesn't he ever talk?" and the boss shot the bird with a single shot. Luke replied "I think he just did." My Vision makes a statement just sitting in the driveway, but makes a bigger statement with every mile I roll. I agree with you on Victory sticking with building better bikes but as you said about things like merchandise "crap that does no more than advertise". It is that advertising that is exactly the point Victory needs to see, it's people walking around when not riding showing the brand Victory on their apparel. That is how H-D built their brand recognition and image and it is a proven strategy for increasing sales in the LONG TERM. Sometimes corporations are so focused on shot term (under 10 years) goals that they forget about paying attention to what they truly want in the long term. This is why Victory needs to come up with a licensing structure to allow other to promote the Victory brand.
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Tourer
Posts: 576
, IA | Yep need another BLACK Tee shirt | |
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Tourer
Posts: 494
Akron Ohio area | Handy Howard,
I am sorry you have had such a bad experience with your dealership.
I on the other hand couldn't ask for a better experience every time I visit my dealership.
I have had "problems" with a particular Ford dealership and simply went to another dealership that treated me fairly.
Maybe I'm lucky to be in a competitive area with 6 Victory dealerships within a 30 mile range. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | Travelin Man - 2011-08-17 7:40 AM
Cap'n Nemo - 2011-08-17 6:48 AM yeah, I see how the HD clothing line and merchandise kept them out of a bail-out. I hope Victory sticks with building a better product and not worry with that anciliary crap that does no more than advertise for them. Just as the boss in "Cool Hand Luke" when one asked Luke, "doesn't he ever talk?" and the boss shot the bird with a single shot. Luke replied "I think he just did." My Vision makes a statement just sitting in the driveway, but makes a bigger statement with every mile I roll. I agree with you on Victory sticking with building better bikes but as you said about things like merchandise "crap that does no more than advertise".? It is that advertising that is exactly the point Victory needs to see, it's people walking around when not riding showing the brand Victory on their apparel.? That is how H-D built their brand recognition and image and it is a proven strategy for increasing sales in the LONG TERM.? Sometimes corporations are so focused on shot term (under 10 years) goals that they forget about paying attention to what they truly want in the long term.? This is why Victory needs to come up with a licensing structure to allow other to promote the Victory brand.
I think LONGEVITY is what keeps HD going, great grandpa, grandpa, pappy and my uncle rode an HD kinda keeps that going, apperal is secondary. I don't see any Gold Wing shirts and they spank Victory in sales as well. Keep making a better bike, keep riders happy, more riders will tell about it, to there kids and grandkids and around 2050 my grandson might be saying, "My granddad told me how much better a Victory is than HD so I got one..." Whatever.... please. My advertisement is riding the flippin' thing and not running it into the ground because of a little out of line door bag. While HD may have great fit and finish, who cares if it is in the shop all the time. Very refreshing during the last four years I've been riding my bike nearly everyday without crazy maintenance and breakdowns. Nobody has time to look at my 1/8th of inch out of line bag, and it spends no time in a garage. That's my statement and I'm sticking too it. By the way, I've got about 12 shirts with some sort of Victory logo on it, so what is the beef????
Edited by Cap'n Nemo 2011-08-17 9:59 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Last Saturday I was wearing my "Vision Pilot" logo shirt that Crawford designed and had made back in 2008. I was lead bike on the Demo Rides at the dealership all day.
Now that shirt makes a statement. Victory does not need to be a shirt supplier for the shirt to look cool.
Ride Safe
Edited by radioteacher 2011-08-17 10:16 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 81
Lynnwood, WA | I have to agree with Cap'n! I got so many Victory logo shirts, I've told the kids to stop gettin' for birthdays and Christmas... My bike? Sure, it's been back to the shop for a minor thing or two, but she runs like a dream, is the most comfortable bike I've ever put miles on, and always draws attention where ever we are. I am a major fan of Victory, it's my second by the way. I have to agree with whoever said if you are not happy with the support you are getting from your dealer, find another one. Personally, if I trusted the dealer enough to purchase a bike like the Vision from, and suddenly became dissatisfied with them, I would seek out the Service Manager, then the General Manager, and if necessary the owner! My guess is, they don't want unhappy customers... Just my two old pennies rubbed together's worth. | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | I like my new shirt -  | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 166
Bullhead City, AZ | Handy Howard I have an 08 and if anyone should bitch about their Vision it should be the 08 owners. I always tell myself do not buy anything the first year wait till they fix most of the problems with the model. I have the leaky gas cap, poor fit on the bags that are "to small"the cricket chirping belt, the headlight with cracks, the lowers that broke (less than a year old) and I even have a dimple in my trunk lid. The bike stalled three times because of the loose ground wire leaving the dealer. With all these "problems" I have had to deal with 2 dealers in ND, one in Las Vegas and another in Lake Havasu. Every dealer was profesional and very helpful and I would not hesitate to return to any of them. I do agree that Polaris should continue to improve its bikes. If you need a new Victory shirt somre of the clubs and local dealers have nice ones. I belong to Sin City and I have sent 9 shirts back to ND and my copilot just bought a London Victory shirt. The clothing is nice but nothing speaks louder than the bikes, they did not get to be #1 in customer satisfaction by chance. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 92
Fort Walton Beach, FL | If Polaris (Victory) is number one in customer satisfaction that sure speaks poorly of the industry as a whole. Polaris isolates themselves from the very customer who is their bread and butter and refers everything back to the dealers. And so far I have run into four dealers that do not want to bother with warranty work on my bike because I did not buy it from them... A person should not have to pre-qualify for good service by buying from a dealer. In my case I was on a road trip and spur of the moment decided to trade my Harley for the Victory... a hard lesson... one that I will never do again. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 152
Litchfield Park, AZ | Handy, it is against the law for them to deny you warranty service based on where you bought the bike.....and you are saying you have had 4 dealers who don't want to deal with you? Hmmmm, I find this hard to believe. There is something you are are not saying here. The only common link is you. Now that statement may piss you off, but I am trying to figure out how 4 dealers have told you "to go jump in a lake" when that would cost them their dealership franchise. Most of these dealers make more on service, and parts, and modifications then they ever will selling bikes....why would they walk away from your particular money????? Something doesn't make sense here.
I purchased my bike in Chicago (Randy's Cycle-great dealer) and I have it serviced at Arizona Victory (great dealer). They treat me great every single time I walk in the door. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 92
Fort Walton Beach, FL | First of all it is not against any law to deny warranty service to anyone... secondly this is a small town and I shopped the two closest dealers and didn't buy from them, then I showed up for warranty work... no go. The other two dealers called Polaris and came back to me with the statement that Polaris wanted me to take the bike back to where I bought it for warranty work. Why wouldn't I just go ahead and get it fixed otherwise? I would. It's obvious that you have never lived in a small town area and dealt with these kind of people...
Edited by Handyhoward 2011-08-18 11:04 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| Howard, sorry to say this, but you couldn't be more wrong.
The Federal Statute regarding warranty repairs is called the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.
Here is a link to the wikipedia description of the act:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act
It is ILLEGAL for any dealer to deny warranty claims because of a lack of purchase. This doesn't mean that they have to jump and do your repair first but that they have to do it because they represent the warrantor which would be Polaris. I have seen people that walk into a dealership with the "I'm the customer and I DEMAND to be treated right" attitude told that their repairs would take 4 to 6 weeks and knowing the people at the dealership I know that that is their response to someone who walks in with an attitude.
My local multiline dealership (Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Can-Am) Nielsen Enterprises in Lake Villa, IL used to be a Victory dealer up until '03, they dropped the Victory brand because of the demands Polaris wanted to make of them, yet because of the great relationship I have with them they still allow me to bring both of my Victory's in for routine maintenance like oil changes (Randy's doesn't carry the AmsOil that I like to run in my bikes). The funny thing is the Polaris/Victory factory reps have been bugging the owner of Nielsen's (Ted Nielsen) for the past 2 years to once again carry the Victory brand because even after he dropped the Victory brand he still sold Polaris snowmobiles and atvs. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 152
Litchfield Park, AZ | Handyhoward - 2011-08-18 8:59 AM
First of all it is not against any law to deny warranty service to anyone... secondly this is a small town and I shopped the two closest dealers and didn't buy from them, then I showed up for warranty work... no go. The other two dealers called Polaris and came back to me with the statement that Polaris wanted me to take the bike back to where I bought it for warranty work. Why wouldn't I just go ahead and get it fixed otherwise? I would. It's obvious that you have never lived in a small town area and dealt with these kind of people...
Ummm, I grew up in a town of 10,000 people in downstate Illinois (Washington, IL) and I was married and had my 1st child while living in a town of 600 people (Ogden, IL) so I know a thing or 2 about small town living....and I know that in small towns if you treat people with respect you get respect in return. I also know that the only common denominator in this whole issue (with 4 dealers) is you.
I hope you read the post regarding the Magnusson-Moss warranty act....because if you are really telling the 100% gospel truth about 4 dealerships breaking the law, then you have one hell of a civil case and if I were you I would be in contact with a lawyer today to reap my windfall settlement my friend. | |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 19
| Handyhoward - 2011-08-18 11:59 AM
First of all it is not against any law to deny warranty service to anyone... secondly this is a small town and I shopped the two closest dealers and didn't buy from them, then I showed up for warranty work... no go. The other two dealers called Polaris and came back to me with the statement that Polaris wanted me to take the bike back to where I bought it for warranty work. Why wouldn't I just go ahead and get it fixed otherwise? I would. It's obvious that you have never lived in a small town area and dealt with these kind of people...
Okay, sorry all I dont post here much since selling my Vision but I still come in and read the treads often...
Howard, I can tell you first hand Victory would NEVER tell a dealer you have to get your bike warrantied at the selling dealer. This has come up before when two dealers took this stance and Victory came down on him quickly and harshly. It is not only a violation of the M&M act it is a violation of the dealer agreement (page 3 I believe), it states that no dealer can deny any person a warranty claim under any circumstances. If 4 dealers are refusing to do the work they are in violation and I find it hard to believe 4 seperate dealers would do that.
As Phoenix stated there is a common denominator, what are you saying to these dealers to make them not want to perform warranty work on your bike? I personnally know two of the dealers in your area and if you give me the background and who you spoke with I would be more then happy to give them a call.
If all four dealers are doing this to you unjustly I will pass it up the food chain to someone that can make a difference.
So I would ask you to put your feelings to the side for a moment and let us know the story. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | AMEN to all the above re: Handyhoward. My dealer is ALWAYS there for me. And not just the Vision - all my cars and all my bikes, current and past. Never had a stinker. Maybe cuz I'm so nice?
Re: Biker Duds
I have had Harley Dudes ask me MANY times over my riding years "Why don't 'ya buy a Harley?"
My response often is "Sorry - I don't wear a uniform." - and their reply "Why would you need a uniform?".
And I say as I speed away .... "Cuz all you Harley guys look alike !!! " (they don't seem to like what I'm telling them - for some reason)
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| when I am asked that question i reply "Cause I cant afford the tools" | |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | "Cuz I can't afford a pickup-truck"
"What's that got to do with buying a Harley?"
"Cuz you need a pickup-truck to go get the Harley when it breaks down..." - The 'boys' don't like that one either !!!
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | +1 +1 +1 +1 to HandyHoward! I love my Vision 8 Ball. But you can see my experience from a dealer I purchased my bike from in another thread. They didn't want to do the right thing and left me holding the bag. I had to hand my bill over to my attorney to collect my out of pocket costs from St. Pete Powersports! The repairing dealer, Kissimmee Motorsports did a decent job, and cut me a deal, getting my bike running again.......but they failed to fix my center headlight even though they had the bike for 3 weeks and I reminded them 3 times. So now I am trying dealer number three for warranty service, as my wrench that works on my other bike will do all non-warranty work from now on. Oh, and there are no dealers in Orlando FL!
To Dontracey, Phoenix, and others who fault HandyHoward. Why are you blaming the customer for the lack of service? Are you kidding me? I'm happy you have a good dealer that is always there for you, but that doesn't mean that all dealers provide good service and do the right thing. Now you think people have to be nice nice to get service? Give me a break. Try to give a little support to your fellow Vision Owner. Maybe, just maybe he isn't getting service he deserves. Nice or not there is no reason for a dealer to refuse warranty work. Polaris pays them to do that boys!! And doing service work is PROFITABLE and generates CASH FLOW when the sales are lacking. Remember the old adage "The customer is ALWAYS right" Seems that has been forgotten in many parts of the world. Let's at least try to remember it here at Vision-Riders.
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va |
Edited by Cap'n Nemo 2011-08-24 8:15 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | MaddMAx2u - 2011-08-24 5:23 AM +1 +1 +1 +1 to HandyHoward! I love my Vision 8 Ball. But you can see my experience from a dealer I purchased my bike from in another thread. They didn't want to do the right thing and left me holding the bag. I had to hand my bill over to my attorney to collect my out of pocket costs from St. Pete Powersports! The repairing dealer, Kissimmee Motorsports did a decent job, and cut me a deal, getting my bike running again.......but they failed to fix my center headlight even though they had the bike for 3 weeks and I reminded them 3 times. So now I am trying dealer number three for warranty service, as my wrench that works on my other bike will do all non-warranty work from now on. Oh, and there are no dealers in Orlando FL! To Dontracey, Phoenix, and others who fault HandyHoward. Why are you blaming the customer for the lack of service? Are you kidding me? I'm happy you have a good dealer that is always there for you, but that doesn't mean that all dealers provide good service and do the right thing. Now you think people have to be nice nice to get service? Give me a break. Try to give a little support to your fellow Vision Owner. Maybe, just maybe he isn't getting service he deserves. Nice or not there is no reason for a dealer to refuse warranty work. Polaris pays them to do that boys!! And doing service work is PROFITABLE and generates CASH FLOW when the sales are lacking. Remember the old adage "The customer is ALWAYS right" Seems that has been forgotten in many parts of the world. Let's at least try to remember it here at Vision-Riders. I thought this thread was about Victory Clothing. Somehow, it has become ANOTHER rant about Victory Dealerships. Listen - if someone in my office comes up to me and starts acting like an asshole - yelling and bitching - I am going to treat them in exactly the same way they are acting. Be nice - I will be nice. I am nice - they are nice. Dealers are PEOPLE - and PEOPLE don't like ASSHOLES. I learned that working in a real SERVICE STATION when I was going to University. You will never win by YELLING at someone - try a little tenderness, or something a little nicer. An ASSHOLE of a customer is NEVER right!!! | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 92
Fort Walton Beach, FL | donetracey - 2011-08-24 2:08 PM
MaddMAx2u - 2011-08-24 5:23 AM +1 +1 +1 +1 to HandyHoward! I love my Vision 8 Ball. But you can see my experience from a dealer I purchased my bike from in another thread. They didn't want to do the right thing and left me holding the bag. I had to hand my bill over to my attorney to collect my out of pocket costs from St. Pete Powersports! The repairing dealer, Kissimmee Motorsports did a decent job, and cut me a deal, getting my bike running again.......but they failed to fix my center headlight even though they had the bike for 3 weeks and I reminded them 3 times. So now I am trying dealer number three for warranty service, as my wrench that works on my other bike will do all non-warranty work from now on. Oh, and there are no dealers in Orlando FL! To Dontracey, Phoenix, and others who fault HandyHoward. Why are you blaming the customer for the lack of service? Are you kidding me? I'm happy you have a good dealer that is always there for you, but that doesn't mean that all dealers provide good service and do the right thing. Now you think people have to be nice nice to get service? Give me a break. Try to give a little support to your fellow Vision Owner. Maybe, just maybe he isn't getting service he deserves. Nice or not there is no reason for a dealer to refuse warranty work. Polaris pays them to do that boys!! And doing service work is PROFITABLE and generates CASH FLOW when the sales are lacking. Remember the old adage "The customer is ALWAYS right" Seems that has been forgotten in many parts of the world. Let's at least try to remember it here at Vision-Riders. I thought this thread was about Victory Clothing. Somehow, it has become ANOTHER rant about Victory Dealerships. Listen - if someone in my office comes up to me and starts acting like an asshole - yelling and bitching - I am going to treat them in exactly the same way they are acting. Be nice - I will be nice. I am nice - they are nice. Dealers are PEOPLE - and PEOPLE don't like ASSHOLES. I learned that working in a real SERVICE STATION when I was going to University. You will never win by YELLING at someone - try a little tenderness, or something a little nicer. An ASSHOLE of a customer is NEVER right!!! ?
You assume incorrectly that I was not nice... why do you assume this? I was nice... never raised my voice and never "told" any dealer employee to do anything or else. How nice does one have to be? And I am continuing to be nice. I haven't called anyone an "ASSHOLE", nor have I threatened anyone. I have raised my issues with the Victory dealers that I have dealt with on these forums and I have done so in my personal relation of the stories about the dealers to people that I meet and who ask me about my bike... do I not have this right? Would you censor me? Do you recommend that I lie or remain silent for the sake of nice? How long do you recommend that I do this? Tell me how to behave... how do I "Kiss Ass" to get these things done? You seem to be the great OZ of ass kissers. Share your wealth of information, but try to gather the facts first...OK? | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | My first experience with the vagaries of customer service was at age 12. I was working in my grandfathers diner clearing the counter and washing dishes.
It was a pretty busy lunch rush, and my grandfather was working the grill, so he asked me to start filling customers drink orders.
The 2nd guy at the counter whom I approached for his drink order told me "Yeah, I want a drink, but YOU cant get it for me".
I told him in no uncertain terms that while I might be 12, I knew where everything in the restaurant was because I stocked the coolers, and I assured him that I not only could serve him, I damn well would.
He said that I should get my grandfather to serve him. I said "he's busy working the grill , what do you want to drink?"
He say's "OK, I want a Weideman's (some really awful local beer) but you better get somebody else to serve it for me". Just to prove him wrong, I reached into the cooler, pulled out a cold long neck Weideman's beer and popped the cap off in the bottle opener that was screwed to the back of the counter. Then I grabbed a frosted beer mug and set it along with the bottle of beer in front of the customer.
No sooner had it hit the counter, when the man pulled out a Lexington Police Dept. badge and a set of hand cuffs , laid them on the counter next to the beer and with a less than amused look on his face said to me "Boy, you better go get your Granddady! NOW!
There are a couple of lessons that I learned from this experience and a subsequent lifetime in various customer service roles.
1) Accurate communication is the secret to all commercial relationships.
2) Just because a customer wants something doesn't mean that you should give it to him.
3) You never know who your F%#$in' with, or what he has under his coat; so it always pays to be pleasant until you have no other options.
4) I already have enough t-shirts.
Edited by Tarpits99 2011-08-24 6:44 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | TarPits99 - I have popcorn and a Dr Pepper in waiting for the rest of the story as Paul Harvey would say.......................... | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | Pollolittle---
You have your Popcorn & Dr. Pepper in hand?
My grandfathers diner was around the corner from his house. Being country folk from Stamping Ground, KY neither of my grandparents were overly fond of wasting money, so rather than pay for a telephone in the diner ( which my grandmother viewed as a frivolous expense), they had a surplus army field telephone hard wired from his kitchen to hers.
It probably should be pointed out that my grandmother also considered an electric iron to be a frivolous expense and used the old fashioned kind that you heated up on the stove. I must report however, that there is more than a little supporting evidence to conclude that her preference may have been based more on the fact that she wanted the accuracy and distance of her throws to be unimpeded by a cord plugged into the wall, and that she preferred the shock resistance of the "real" iron over that of the relatively delicate electric steam variety . That may have been another nod to country practicality, since if you have a tendency to throw things; the things that you choose to throw should be unbreakable.
Anyway, the beer incident???..after sending me back to the sinks to wash dishes, my grandfather spoke to the customer, then cranked up the field telephone and called the house.
Within minutes there was a little red headed, ball of fury wearing cats eye glasses and a kitchen apron who stormed through the door and descended upon me like a maniacal bird of prey. She dragged me around the corner by my ear, while simultaneously whipping my ass , and filling my head with graphic images of the truly dire consequences that would occur should my actions, and my smart ass "yankee" attitude, cause their permit to sell alcohol to be revoked.
Thankfully, it wasn't?.I know this to be the case for a couple of reasons.
1) My grandmother was known to have a fiery temper and a taste for bourbon, which was sometimes a volatile mixture. There is a high level of probability, based on the potential punishments that she described to me, that we would not be having this little "conversation" had they lost that permit.
2) The following day I was back washing dishes, mopping floors, and was given the additional responsibility of being, in Andy Griffiths words, "permanent latrine orderly" cleaning the restroom; a job which even at my grandfather's little diner was considered punishment duty. I was also told never to touch another bottle of beer in his place as long as I lived, if I wished to continue to be numbered among the living.
3) My father told me years later that the police officer involved sang in the church choir with my grandmother, and went crow hunting with my grandfather and my uncles regularly. No doubt at the very quarry that my grandmother threatened to use to dispose of my worthless carcass.
He and my grandfather probably laughed their butts off at the spectacle of me being dragged out of the diner by my ear while being served "the business end" of a switch. The phrase "couldn't sit down for a week" may be an exaggeration but not by much.
Anyway he gave them a pass on the permit violation; and I have put a not inconsiderable amount of effort into keeping out of trouble ever since, now you know "the rest of the story"???.
BTW - All this talk about customer service / Victory paraphernalia makes me wonder, has anyone seen or heard from VaParadox lately? Mac usually chimes in on these types of discussions.
Sorry about continuing to be a contributor to a full on thread jacking.
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Cruiser
Posts: 152
Litchfield Park, AZ | MaddMAx2u - 2011-08-24 5:23 AM
To Dontracey, Phoenix, and others who fault HandyHoward. Why are you blaming the customer for the lack of service? Are you kidding me? I'm happy you have a good dealer that is always there for you, but that doesn't mean that all dealers provide good service and do the right thing. Now you think people have to be nice nice to get service? Give me a break. Try to give a little support to your fellow Vision Owner. Maybe, just maybe he isn't getting service he deserves. Nice or not there is no reason for a dealer to refuse warranty work. Polaris pays them to do that boys!! And doing service work is PROFITABLE and generates CASH FLOW when the sales are lacking. Remember the old adage "The customer is ALWAYS right" Seems that has been forgotten in many parts of the world. Let's at least try to remember it here at Vision-Riders.
Max, I know you are looking for a "friend in the trenches" due to the poor service you have received (and I'm glad you were able to take legal action and held them accountable for their poor service), but I'm not gonna back off my statements. I've ripped on dealers before, but something just doesn't smell right on this deal to me.
First off, I tried to get the Handyman to realize that he HAD LEGAL RECOURSE due to the fact that his story stated that 4 (YES 4) separate dealers refused him warranty service (IN VIOLATION of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act). I did mention that his story seemed a little interesting to have 4 separate dealers just randomly chose to break the law with him only. Why would 4 separate dealers choose to pick him out of a lineup for illegal activity?
I'm sorry if I believe that the truth in this story lies somewhere in the middle from what we are being told on this thread. | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | Max, I know you are looking for a "friend in the trenches" due to the poor service you have received (and I'm glad you were able to take legal action and held them accountable for their poor service), but I'm not gonna back off my statements. I've ripped on dealers before, but something just doesn't smell right on this deal to me.
Phoenix9, you are incorrect. I'm not looking for a "friend in the trenches". I have the ultimate "Friend in the trenches" And it ain't you! It's a group of four legal eagles that are happy to handle any difficulty I might have. Yes, my story on a different thread started from my anger and I needed to vent. I correctly assumed that I would get some support from my story, and most of the replies were in support, but there were a few who somehow blamed me. Silly freaking replies like "that's what you get for putting accessories on your bike." Really? Gee, thanks for your support!! LOL The bottom Line is that the dealer tried to get out of his responsibilites and my lawyer handled it. Case closed.
What I am doing is stating that while there are good dealers there are also many accounts of poor dealers on this web site, including a dealer that actually joined to make a public apology!! (Gotta give him credit for that one). And while HandyHoward might have some issues (considering he went to 4 dealers) he deserves our support as a fellow rider until the facts give way to something else. But to not support a fellow rider just because "something smells fishy" seems like something out of a "fair weather friend" novel.
I will admit tho, that you did give him remedies he might not have taken. But perhaps the manner in which you offered them was less than supportive. Let's support our fellow riders. Cause let's face it. When push comes to shove Polaris ain't gonna do it. Victory ain't gonna do it. And the dealer's ain't gonna do it. We have to stick together and support each other. That's how many mechanical, electrical and other things get solved here on this board. Things Victory will never address. If the facts turn out to say our fellow rider is at fault, let's find a gentle way in which to put him on the right path while continuing to give our support.
The truth may lie in the middle. But until that becomes factual, HandyHoward has my full support. He should go to Facebook. Call Victory. Call Polaris. And perhaps even hire an attorney. And his warranty work should be taken care of without a hassle. Even if he ain't "nice". This is business. It ain't about being "nice". I am known as a nice guy. Life is too short to get all pissy. But I'm also known as a guy that you don't want to f**k with, cause my lawyers can be complete assholes!! | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| Fred, I just checked and Mac has not logged on since May 21st. I recall a post saying he had been in an accident or something of the sort. Regardless, I hope he is doing well where ever he is! | |
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| Also something else I learned about that M & M act,if the company tell you youhave to use a certian part (ie oil,& a certain filter to be within thier warrenty . They have to provide it at no cost to you. ) This was also printed in the back of the Wix brand of filters back in the 70's,and this made it easy for me to keep my filter clients from switching to Mack,or Cat branded filters as the dealer told them they would not warrenty the equipment these client bought. Next time they refuse your warrenty work,ask to get a written statement from the dealer saying they refuse to do it,and see what happends then! | |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | JEEZE - I hope my life never gets that shitty - I'm only 67 and I have a lot of good riding ahead that I never want to miss.
But it's 11:40 and the news on TV is bleak - so I'm off to bed with young Co-Pilot and I'll let you wise young geniouses sit and figure out how the biking world should be run. And WOW - I missed everything! Lawyers !!! WOW ... you guys ....
I've had a couple of drinks - but - that don't make me STUPID (maybe a little) - I just know (you guys have taught me) that it's better to be polite than loud mouth - good luck with YOUR way ....
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Cruiser
Posts: 92
Fort Walton Beach, FL |
Max, I know you are looking for a "friend in the trenches" due to the poor service you have received (and I'm glad you were able to take legal action and held them accountable for their poor service), but I'm not gonna back off my statements. I've ripped on dealers before, but something just doesn't smell right on this deal to me.
First off, I tried to get the Handyman to realize that he HAD LEGAL RECOURSE due to the fact that his story stated that 4 (YES 4) separate dealers refused him warranty service (IN VIOLATION of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act). I did mention that his story seemed a little interesting to have 4 separate dealers just randomly chose to break the law with him only. Why would 4 separate dealers choose to pick him out of a lineup for illegal activity?
I'm sorry if I believe that the truth in this story lies somewhere in the middle from what we are being told on this thread.
First of all... I know that I have "legal recourse" and believe it or not I do NOT plan to go there until every other recourse has been exhausted. Second of all I would love to hear from Polaris and their management... I have done my due diligence and sent off by registered mail a letter to the CEO Wine and his "team" outlining the problems that I have had... with NO response now for over a month. Lastly, why don't you venture out on a 6000 mile trip and have a continual problem with your bike that Polaris doesn't want to be bothered with because it is a dealer issue before you start casting stones... | |
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | Hijack thread (cont) - Tarpits99 -see now there's an awesome story to go along with my popcorn and Dr Pepper. I believe we may have had distant cousin grannies, except mine didn't drink, but fiery none the less and not willing to let a little misbehavior stand in the way of what's right.
That right there is where I come from, proper upbringing! It's funny how it takes one little ole' lady to show you the path you need to stay on and willing to shine a light down it for you. I believe she laid it all out there for you to figure out which choice you might make. I see you chose well, young grasshopper!
I need more campfire stories like that, whose next, but I think you may have more to give, start another thread when you got time to type.
AWESOME! | |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 19
| Maddmax,
I offered Howard assistance in getting this resolved. I asked him to write down the chain of events and all the dealers involved and I would handle it for him and get to the bottom of it. He has yet to respond to me in a PM or publically. So it has me wondering the legitimacy of the claims he is making. He said he will exhaust every resource before seeking a legal path, why is he not using what I am offering?
I know you dont know me but several here do and the ones that do know me can vouch for my factory contacts and what I have done to help out other riders. But this is also a double edge sword, if Howards claims turn out to be false or misinterpretation or misunderstandings I am going to report that also because I feel that the factory should get some of the good press and not just the bad press.
Scanning through the names on this thread I only see two people that can vouch for me, one is Phoenix and the other is Bigfoot. | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | dsjr70 - 2011-08-26 10:00 AM
Maddmax,
I offered Howard assistance in getting this resolved. I asked him to write down the chain of events and all the dealers involved and I would handle it for him and get to the bottom of it. He has yet to respond to me in a PM or publically. So it has me wondering the legitimacy of the claims he is making. He said he will exhaust every resource before seeking a legal path, why is he not using what I am offering?
I know you dont know me but several here do and the ones that do know me can vouch for my factory contacts and what I have done to help out other riders. But this is also a double edge sword, if Howards claims turn out to be false or misinterpretation or misunderstandings I am going to report that also because I feel that the factory should get some of the good press and not just the bad press.
Scanning through the names on this thread I only see two people that can vouch for me, one is Phoenix and the other is Bigfoot.
dsjr70
I have no idea why you are replying to me on this thread. I did not single you out for being non-supportive of another rider. And I have read of the things you have done to assist others. What's the point of your reply to me?
Edited by MaddMAx2u 2011-08-26 9:46 AM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 19
| MaddMAx2u - 2011-08-26 10:45 AM
dsjr70
I have no idea why you are replying to me on this thread. I did not single you out for being non-supportive of another rider. And I have read of the things you have done to assist others. What's the point of your reply to me?
I read one of your comments and seen it addressed to Don. I now looked back and it was dontracey... But did I say anything wrong? All I did was offer a rider help and got ignored. | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| First of all... I know that I have "legal recourse" and believe it or not I do NOT plan to go there until every other recourse has been exhausted. Second of all I would love to hear from Polaris and their management... I have done my due diligence and sent off by registered mail a letter to the CEO Wine and his "team" outlining the problems that I have had... with NO response now for over a month. Lastly, why don't you venture out on a 6000 mile trip and have a continual problem with your bike that Polaris doesn't want to be bothered with because it is a dealer issue before you start casting stones...
So, the gist of the problem here is that Howard wants the FACTORY to address his problems, and not even just the factory but the CEO nonetheless and not a dealer, well, jeez, I guess the next time I have a problem with my Dodge Dakota I should call on Chrysler's/Dodge's headquarters and CEO (too bad I don't speak Italian) to resolve my issue instead of having it resolved a local DEALER.
Get real man, while Victory is a fairly small division of the much larger Polaris Industries, you will NEVER get the CEO of a corporation to address you directly, that is what they pay both their customer service staff to do and the reason they have dealers to represent them and their products. Now, if you piss off the dealers (which looks likely to be the case here) then you are really up a creek without a paddle. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 152
Litchfield Park, AZ | MaddMAx2u - 2011-08-25 6:25 PM
Max, I know you are looking for a "friend in the trenches" due to the poor service you have received (and I'm glad you were able to take legal action and held them accountable for their poor service), but I'm not gonna back off my statements. I've ripped on dealers before, but something just doesn't smell right on this deal to me.
Phoenix9, you are incorrect. I'm not looking for a "friend in the trenches". I have the ultimate "Friend in the trenches" And it ain't you!
I'll get over it......and BTW, I was not one of the individuals who threw you under the bus on your problems.
What I am doing is stating that while there are good dealers there are also many accounts of poor dealers on this web site, including a dealer that actually joined to make a public apology!! (Gotta give him credit for that one). And while HandyHoward might have some issues (considering he went to 4 dealers) he deserves our support as a fellow rider until the facts give way to something else. But to not support a fellow rider just because "something smells fishy" seems like something out of a"fair weather friend" novel. I will admit tho, that you did give him remedies he might not have taken. But perhaps the manner in which you offered them was less than supportive. Let's support our fellow riders. Cause let's face it. When push comes to shove Polaris ain't gonna do it. Victory ain't gonna do it. And the dealer's ain't gonna do it. We have to stick together and support each other. That's how many mechanical, electrical and other things get solved here on this board. Things Victory will never address. If the facts turn out to say our fellow rider is at fault, let's find a gentle way in which to put him on the right path while continuing to give our support. I'm not a rank-and-file employee of the Victory rider's Union.....Sorry for being honest. Next time I'll throw dealers under the bus because it's in my Union Victory owner's contract.
The truth may lie in the middle. But until that becomes factual, HandyHoward has my full support. He should go to Facebook. Call Victory. Call Polaris. And perhaps even hire an attorney. And his warranty work should be taken care of without a hassle. Even if he ain't "nice". This is business. It ain't about being "nice". I am known as a nice guy. Life is too short to get all pissy. But I'm also known as a guy that you don't want to f**k with, cause my lawyers can be complete assholes!! I think your advice to hire an attorney is perfect.....because if he has had 4 dealers break the law then his rewards will be astronomical. He's already been here and the VOG letting everyone know....and he even got offered an opportunity by a VERY CONNECTED individual to take his issues straight to the top....and he did nothing other than rant everywhere.
Personally, I would have taken Don (dsjr) up on his offer, then I would contact an attorney. If you want to make me out to be the enemy because I gave an opinion that differs from yours go right ahead. I'm OK with it.
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Cruiser
Posts: 92
Fort Walton Beach, FL | Travelin Man - 2011-08-26 12:53 PM
First of all... I know that I have "legal recourse" and believe it or not I do NOT plan to go there until every other recourse has been exhausted. Second of all I would love to hear from Polaris and their management... I have done my due diligence and sent off by registered mail a letter to the CEO Wine and his "team" outlining the problems that I have had... with NO response now for over a month. Lastly, why don't you venture out on a 6000 mile trip and have a continual problem with your bike that Polaris doesn't want to be bothered with because it is a dealer issue before you start casting stones...
So, the gist of the problem here is that Howard wants the FACTORY to address his problems, and not even just the factory but the CEO nonetheless and not a dealer, well, jeez, I guess the next time I have a problem with my Dodge Dakota I should call on Chrysler's/Dodge's headquarters and CEO (too bad I don't speak Italian) to resolve my issue instead of having it resolved a local DEALER.
Get real man, while Victory is a fairly small division of the much larger Polaris Industries, you will NEVER get the CEO of a corporation to address you directly, that is what they pay both their customer service staff to do and the reason they have dealers to represent them and their products. Now, if you piss off the dealers (which looks likely to be the case here) then you are really up a creek without a paddle.
For an obtuse individual with nothing constructive to say, you make a few too many assumptions to be taken seriously... you sound just like a little first grader out on the playground. | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 965
New York State | {Sets up soap box }
OK this is an informational fourm
One asks for opinions and suggestions .
some will be correct
some will not be
As users we must pick the information we are willing to use and disreguard anything not helpful.
There is no reason for personal insults.
Please be kind in your posts .
Edited by Trekwolf164 2011-08-26 5:24 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| First of all... I know that I have "legal recourse" and believe it or not I do NOT plan to go there until every other recourse has been exhausted. Second of all I would love to hear from Polaris and their management... I have done my due diligence and sent off by registered mail a letter to the CEO Wine and his "team" outlining the problems that I have had... with NO response now for over a month. Lastly, why don't you venture out on a 6000 mile trip and have a continual problem with your bike that Polaris doesn't want to be bothered with because it is a dealer issue before you start casting stones...
Nope, I have absolutely no problem understanding what you are saying, you expect first the 4 dealers that you went to and then Polaris/Victory to address your situation to your satisfaction, this hasn't happened so you sent the CEO of a major corporation a letter a month ago and you still haven't heard back from that CEO. Yep, I think that covers it from what you have said.
From your posts you are clearly one of those "I am the customer and I am always right" kind of customer whom service writers at dealerships (of all types of vehicles) tend to say no too for no clear reason as they really can't say "hey, we don't like your attitude so take it someplace else" to your face. As stated by others, 1) It is unfortunate that you have had problems with your bike, 2) There is more going on here in your relations with those four dealers than you are telling all of us, and 3) A little humility in dealing with service writers will go a long way to getting your problem addressed to your satisfaction. The problem here is that you are probably too much of a type A personality and humility doesn't come easy to you.
One last word of advice that you won't listen to anyway, be nice to the service writers, remember their name, don't tell them how to do their job or tell them they need to make more of an effort on your behalf, and lastly find out what they like to drink or what kind of cigars they like to smoke and make it a point to give them a little something when you get your bike back from service, it will go a long way to getting your bike done faster the next time you have it in for either a problem or routine service. In other words, an ounce of kindness will get you a pound of gratitude from the people who keep you alive on two wheels.
My regular service guys tend to like Crown Royal and Ice House beer, a couple of times a year I leave a fifth or larger bottle in the trunk and a 12 pack in a saddlebag. I have NEVER had a problem getting warranty work done when needed and I usually get 1 day turn around times for regular service work and oil changes (when I don't do them myself) done while I wait. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Travelin Man - You the MAN ! Too bad others here can't be nice ... or they define 'nice' differently than some of us ....
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Fountain Inn, SC United States | While the initial subject of this thread has been hijacked, the current topic seems to have played out to an uneasy end. Let's move on. Any further acrimony, aspersions, derision, disparagement, ridicule, or superciliousness will result in the closing of this thread.
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Cruiser
Posts: 92
Fort Walton Beach, FL | Travelin Man - 2011-08-26 11:11 PM
First of all... I know that I have "legal recourse" and believe it or not I do NOT plan to go there until every other recourse has been exhausted. Second of all I would love to hear from Polaris and their management... I have done my due diligence and sent off by registered mail a letter to the CEO Wine and his "team" outlining the problems that I have had... with NO response now for over a month. Lastly, why don't you venture out on a 6000 mile trip and have a continual problem with your bike that Polaris doesn't want to be bothered with because it is a dealer issue before you start casting stones...
Nope, I have absolutely no problem understanding what you are saying, you expect first the 4 dealers that you went to and then Polaris/Victory to address your situation to your satisfaction, this hasn't happened so you sent the CEO of a major corporation a letter a month ago and you still haven't heard back from that CEO. Yep, I think that covers it from what you have said.
From your posts you are clearly one of those "I am the customer and I am always right" kind of customer whom service writers at dealerships (of all types of vehicles) tend to say no too for no clear reason as they really can't say "hey, we don't like your attitude so take it someplace else" to your face. As stated by others, 1) It is unfortunate that you have had problems with your bike, 2) There is more going on here in your relations with those four dealers than you are telling all of us, and 3) A little humility in dealing with service writers will go a long way to getting your problem addressed to your satisfaction. The problem here is that you are probably too much of a type A personality and humility doesn't come easy to you.
One last word of advice that you won't listen to anyway, be nice to the service writers, remember their name, don't tell them how to do their job or tell them they need to make more of an effort on your behalf, and lastly find out what they like to drink or what kind of cigars they like to smoke and make it a point to give them a little something when you get your bike back from service, it will go a long way to getting your bike done faster the next time you have it in for either a problem or routine service. In other words, an ounce of kindness will get you a pound of gratitude from the people who keep you alive on two wheels.
My regular service guys tend to like Crown Royal and Ice House beer, a couple of times a year I leave a fifth or larger bottle in the trunk and a 12 pack in a saddlebag. I have NEVER had a problem getting warranty work done when needed and I usually get 1 day turn around times for regular service work and oil changes (when I don't do them myself) done while I wait.
Judging from your home location I'd say CHICAGO or close to it where corruption and bribery has become the norm in your lifestyle. That's part of the bigger problem in America today. People should not have to be coerced with "gifts"/payoffs to do their jobs. I feel sorry for you that's the way that you have learned to get anything done... a gift by definition is the transfer of something without the expectation of receiving something in return. Your "gifts" are really bribes. | |
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Fountain Inn, SC United States | Some people just don't listen. Thread closed.
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