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Cruiser
Posts: 79
Austin, Texas | Who would've thought that the Achille's heel of this magnificent machine would be the oil drain plug. I've changed my oil religiously every 2500 miles, and am now at 30k miles. I've never had an issue. This time I placed the plug and washer, tightened to snug, then went for just beyond snug. Now I'm watching Amsoil (no, this isn't an oil discussion so kittens will not be dying) drip on my epoxy garage floor. Crap. Just glad it's sealed.
The dealer here will charge 2 hours labor and parts to helicoil it, but I'd bet it would still leak. I'm going to order the Timesert drain plug repair kit for just over $80 and do it myself. I'll try to update later. Regardless, this is a recurrent, common problem. I cannot believe that Victory would not amend this design, but would rather let their product sit and leak just like the other brand. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | I'm probably just a wuss and I'm only strong enough to get it to the proper torque, but at about the 20th oil change mine has not had any problems. I'm even still using the same washer for about the last 10 oil changes. What is going wrong, are those with the striped plugs using something other than the hex wrench that came with the bike??
I feel all alone sometimes because I treat my Vision like crap compared to others and don't have the problems that others have that seems to baby their fine machine.
Just curious because comments like "I cannot blieve that Victory would not amend this design, but would rather let their product sit and leak just like the other brand." makes me wonder what I'm doing wrong?
Edited by Cap'n Nemo 2011-07-16 12:26 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 79
Austin, Texas | I'd have to say you have been lucky. I use the appropriate hex socket. I replace the washer every time. I often use a torque wrench but did not this time, which would be the only real difference. Looking at the blogs for the Kingpins, Cross Country's, and other Victory bikes, I'd say it's pretty common. Certainly there's a reason the local dealer has a lot of experience fixing this problem.
I wish I had your luck. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | maybe I have a different casting; each time I take mine out it feels like it takes all my strength to break loose, but it breaks free at that first snap and I can turn it out with my fingers. When I put it back in, I use a half-a-grunt when I tighten it. Having wrenched for a few days and had my share of striped out holes, my plug and threads feel pretty solid. That doesn't mean though I won't be buying a helicoil set at the next oil change, I just don't want to go there. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 79
Austin, Texas | Hope you never have to explore that. I just finished some phone calls to the local Harley dealer and the Honda dealer. Both of them use the Timesert system as well which to me means that this is a common problem on all bikes. Harley won't work on my Victory because of liability (which is strange because they own the Victory dealer down the street). Honda was OK with working on it but actually recommended a local machinist who apparently has lots of experience with this Timesert system. Again, I'll keep y'all updated. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| ill ship you my timesert kit if you like. just ship it back. came with 5 inserts, i only used one. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 97
Okeefenokee Swamp | Sad to say that there are a big lot of us whom have had that problem. It is not that hard to have it repaired or to repair it yourself. i just wish that was not an issue. Having said that,40 plus thousand on my Vision and that is the only problem, other than replacing tires, that I have had. I still think Victory,Visions in particular, are the best motors on the road. i will never go back to Harley. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| We just don't know our own strength <br />
(oil change.jpg)
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 oil change.jpg (52KB - 0 downloads)
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Cruiser
Posts: 79
Austin, Texas | Thanks for the offer, JeffMack. I've already ordered the dang kit or I'd take you up on it. Did you do the work yourself? Looking at the setup it doesn't look too technical especially if you get the 1215c kit with the guide sleeve for the tap. Anyway, I wish I would've seen your offer before I slapped down the cash on this one. Thanks! |
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Tourer
Posts: 415
| I had the same issue at 30,000 miles. Dealer has always done my oil changes.
They tried the timesert fix twice and still leaked.
The extended warranty people just laughed at a claim.
Dealer now uses the plastic washer from a Sportsman 500 to conform to the space.
No problems on second oil change. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 249
Montreal, QC Canada | I did the same to mine. I contacted Arizona Victory in Tucson. They have an insert and drain plug kit. I just drilled out the old threads, rethreaded it and put in the insert with locktite. Haven't had a problem since. Heli coils and timeserts won't last.
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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | I use teflon tape around the threads and snug only. I have only replaced the washer once in 28,000 miles. No leaky. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 162
Northern NJ | The first time I changed the oil in my 2006 KP I stripped the drain plug and it required a helicoil.
I've since learned to only tighten the drain plugs "enough". Good luck.
Edited by K2V2 2011-07-18 6:03 AM
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Cruiser
Posts: 79
Austin, Texas | Yep, #57, my experience with dealer service hasn't been encouraging. |
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Tourer
Posts: 411
Dallas, Texas | Well, not that it can help here, since the damage is done, but at my first self oil change, I replace the stock plug with this http://www.magneticdrainplug.com/Motorcycle_Drain_Plugs/MP01.html and a new crush washer with each change, tighten to manual spec torque. No problems for far. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Isn't the shoulder of the drain plug tapered? So a magnetic plug shouldn't give a good seal.
I do like the plastic washers idea for forgiveness |
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Tourer
Posts: 353
| dtoddrship - 2011-07-16 9:19 AM
The dealer here will charge 2 hours labor and parts to helicoil it, but I'd bet it would still leak. I'm going to order the Timesert drain plug repair kit for just over $80 and do it myself. I'll try to update later. Regardless, this is a recurrent, common problem. I cannot believe that Victory would not amend this design, but would rather let their product sit and leak just like the other brand.
I had to do the timesert on my Vision and eventually will have to do it on my 8-Ball, Timesert is definitely the way to go and on the Vision is an easy install, just lay the bike over on the right tip-overs for easy access. |
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Tourer
Posts: 308
Vineland, NJ United States | What is the proper torque? |
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Tourer
Posts: 353
| edsasdelli - 2011-07-18 12:47 PM
What is the proper torque?
On the Vision it is 15 ft. lbs. |
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Tourer
Posts: 411
Dallas, Texas | john frey - 2011-07-18 11:36 AM
Isn't the shoulder of the drain plug tapered? So a magnetic plug shouldn't give a good seal.
Not a drop left on my garage floor. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| dtoddrship - 2011-07-17 7:38 PM
Thanks for the offer, JeffMack. I've already ordered the dang kit or I'd take you up on it. Did you do the work yourself? Looking at the setup it doesn't look too technical especially if you get the 1215c kit with the guide sleeve for the tap. Anyway, I wish I would've seen your offer before I slapped down the cash on this one. Thanks!
yeah man, did the work myself. Use lots of thread oil to catch the shavings. it was a easy deal. tip overs helped a lot. used red locktight on sleeve of the timesert, thanks to Kevinx's suggestion |
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Cruiser
Posts: 79
Austin, Texas | Red locktite is rated to about 300 degrees. I'm probably going to get the high temp locktite just to be on the safe side. With the locking system in the Timesert I'm not really sure it's needed but in this case the "belt and suspenders" approach seems appropriate. |
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Tourer
Posts: 415
| I was in NO way bashing my dealer. They take much better care of my bikes than I do.
This drain plug issue is something that more and more guys are running in to.
Mainely Action Sports spent a lot of time trying to get it warranteed,
tried the timesert twice and then found the plastic washer fix on their dime.
Did not cost me a cent and they were very apologetic.
And as I have said before, they have a BAR in the back of the shop where
I get free drinks for life.
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | tralphaz - 2011-07-18 1:54 PM
edsasdelli - 2011-07-18 12:47 PM
What is the proper torque?
On the Vision it is 15 ft. lbs.
Bette double check that. Sounds like too much for such a small plug.
I would be more inclined to believe in. lbs. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 74
shakopee , Mn | Thats what is in the owners manual.
Hasn't caused any problems on my bike.
I do use a torque wrench.
Edited by vicguy 2011-07-19 11:26 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | #57 - 2011-07-17 6:45 PM I had the same issue at 30,000 miles. Dealer has always done my oil changes. They tried the timesert fix twice and still leaked. The extended warranty people just laughed at a claim. Dealer now uses the plastic washer from a Sportsman 500 to conform to the space. No problems on second oil change. Can you say "LAWYER"? The reason I ALWAYS have the Dealer do my service is to ensure that I can't be blamed for this kind of SHIT. And no kidding - I would SUE Victory's ASS if they tried to tell me that they would not remedy their poor design. Of course - I haven't had a problem - and I assume my excellent Dealer is the reason. I trust them - and so do many others. Maybe you should KICK SOME ASS! And I worked my way thru University back in the 60's in a Service Bay changing Oil and more serious things. I know about Drain Plugs. AND OIL. And 'dip sticks' .... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 185
Rhode Island | I change the oil & filter faithfully every 2500 miles and use an oil pump on all but the last change before storing it for the winter. I wind up putting 4 1/2 quarts in so I feel that I am getting all old oil out. If I somehow strip the plug I have 3 months to fix it; usually 4-5 oil changes a year so I have improved the odds significantly.
Jim |
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Cruiser
Posts: 273
Midlothian, Va. | If you need a wrench to remove the filter then your most likely over wrenching that plug. It's all in the feel, just ask my wife or my GF. Hey some guys have two bikes, right. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | I use a wrench to remove the oil filter to keep from ever burning my hand again on the exhaust crossover.
Ouch.
Ride Safe |
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Tourer
Posts: 494
Akron Ohio area | My dealer's mechanics use torque wrenches.
I know because I watch them work on my scoot.
15 ft/lbs is not even close to a "grunt". |
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Tourer
Posts: 415
| My dealer always uses a torque wrench and I still have this problem.
I have not heard this issue po up with other Vic's. It can't be just a Vision issue, can it???? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | bigfoot - 2011-07-23 12:38 PM
My dealer's mechanics use torque wrenches.
I know because I watch them work on my scoot.
15 ft/lbs is not even close to a "grunt".
...ref: my earlier post, that is why I use half a grunt. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 88
Nova Scotia , Canada | I dry the plug off well with a clean rag, Place a small amount of silicone on the washer face and use a torque wrench, never had a leak or a problem getting the plug out. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 79
Austin, Texas | Alright, I set the bike on the right side and installed the Timesert per manufacturer instructions. Had a machinist and an engineer working with me on this, so we were probably over cautious as a collective group. The countersink tool worked excellent but even after going to the limit on that the Timesert insert sits proud in the recess. After placing the drain plug to just beyond handtight, it dripped a few drops of oil. I put a torque wrench on it at 15 ft/lbs and it went a bit tighter but I still had one drop on the floor after a few hours. I backed the plug out a few turns and re-torqued. Now, 1.5 weeks later and multiple highway commutes in 104 degrees or better, there are no leaks. I'll have to see what happens at the next oil change.
I'd have to say that the Timesert was easy to use and for the most part delivered what was promised. If I have time I may post some pictures showing a few old grey-haired guys looking appropriately concerned and a Vision laying on it's side while one or two of us lay on our aging backs on the concrete, winding various tools into the oil pan. |
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Tourer
Posts: 444
Bay of Gigs, WA | I bought my scoot off Craigslist and got no paperwork or "special wrench" for the oil plug. When I took it to the dealer to have it checked out, I bought a spare plug because it's some weird size. I've been using a torx that seems to fit and haven't had any problems ('till I said that, anyway, LOL), but can tell the plug has problematic potential. What type of threads are on the thing anyhow, and does your local auto parts store carry one with an old fashioned hex head on it? I've replaced the copper gasket each time because one comes with the filter, but I wonder if one of those fiber/resin/phenolic types that are on my Jeep, say, might be more gentle or forgiving of my ham handed approach to home bike maintenance? |
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Tourer
Posts: 411
Dallas, Texas | OK, well, not sure how, but I have joined the ranks of a drain plug that just won't get "snug", and now has a very slow drip leak. Before a Time-sert or Helicoil, what about trying some teflon tape on the threads? Just a thought. The leak is really slow, and seems to just not get a complete seal.
Edited by iluvink 2012-05-11 10:20 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 411
Dallas, Texas | Disregard my last post....teflon tape isn't recommended for lubricating systems. It can shred and leave trace pieces in the oil. Guess it's time to re-tap and/or use Time-cert or Helicoil. |
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