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Iron Butt
Posts: 965
New York State | http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/03/motorcyclist-dies-helmet-p...
I do not know what to say.
I still think it is the rider's choice to make.
I was on a group ride orPoker Run yesterday and I mentioned that I joined ABATE in the 1980's because we wanted those who ride to decide and I was saying it most likely will never change.
And now we have a failed protest.
I am seeing Orange Crash suits in the future with built in air bags you inflate like Woody Allen in Sleeper on impact and bounce away from the wreck or float in a water landing.
Edited by Trekwolf164 2011-07-03 1:15 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 447
Cleveland, GA | Trekwolf164 - 2011-07-03 2:10 PM I am seeing Orange Crash suits in the future with built in air bags you inflate like Woody Allen in Sleeper on impact and bounce away from the wreck or float in a water landing.  Motorcycle airbag jackets are already on the market. Here's an article about them: http://www.webbikeworld.com/r2/airbag-jacket/motorcycle-airbag-jacket.htm .
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Iron Butt
Posts: 965
New York State | Lone Ranger - 2011-07-03 3:11 PM
Trekwolf164 - 2011-07-03 2:10 PM I am seeing Orange Crash suits in the future with built in air bags you inflate like Woody Allen in Sleeper on impact and bounce away from the wreck or float in a water landing. Motorcycle airbag jackets are already on the market.? Here's an article about them: http://www.webbikeworld.com/r2/airbag-jacket/motorcycle-airbag-jacket.htm?.
Boy they ripped me off fast. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | Sorry to hear of this loss. I'd be more inclined to know his experience as a rider, years in the saddle, safety courses and so on, then simply saying it is likely he would have survived had he been wearing a helmet. Maybe he shouldn't have been riding at all, not trying to be cold. But if they be case, maybe we need to wear helmets in the shower. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 741
Central New York | Cap'n Nemo - 2011-07-03 4:41 PM Sorry to hear of this loss. I'd be more inclined to know his experience as a rider, years in the saddle, safety courses and so on, then simply saying it is likely he would have survived had he been wearing a helmet. Maybe he shouldn't have been riding at all, not trying to be cold. But if they be case, maybe we need to wear helmets in the shower. This is only about 5 miles from my front door, it's been pretty much an annual thing for a number of years. Don't really know anything about the rider so I really won't go into that. But I will say that going over the handlebars and cracking your mellon, and there is no other apparent trauma, is a pretty good indicator the the crash would have been survivable with a helmet. I really don't see how "driving experience would have any bearing at all on that. Experience, no matter how great, will keep your head from cracking on pavement. Should it be a legal question, perhaps, perhaps not. Should they make you wear seat belts in cars? Wear a life belt when water skiing? Maybe society shouldn't require someone to wear a helmet, but then why should society be required to pay someone's medical bills if they choose to turn themselves into a vegetable? I think the placement of the line for being your brother's keeper will always be a point of discussion.
Personally, I don't have a dog in the hunt, I choose to wear a full face flip up regardless of the law because I like my adorable face as it is. 
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | I really believe a lot of factors go into the crash, but I will not say that anyone is exempt either. We've all read both sides of the story; wore a helmet, survived, didn't wear a helmet, died and vise versa, wore a helmet, died, didn't wear a helmet, survived. Okay, we get get into all kinds of factors, I don't wear a helmet, and I crash and live and you have to foot my medical bills. Okay, what about the fools that speeds well above the posted speed limits, crash and they have big medicals bills too. Or, the guy that slips in the bathtube or falls of his ladder and we have to foot the bill because of long term health care. Accidents happen everyday, and we can go to extremes in making points over what we consider evidence. We live in a society that wants to always correct someone else, yet we won't look in our own front door.
I've never documented this, but I pay careful attention about motorcycle deaths in my area, a helmet wearing state. Unfortunetly the one most prevalent factor that I've read about accidents locally is LACK OF EXPERIENCE WITH NO SAFETY COURSE. Lack of experience and safety training is far more dangerous than not wearing a lid.
I must further go on to say that I really don't know the factors in this particular crash, but just like any opposing view oppoinent, the obvious will be pointed out. Did the guy suffer a heart attack that caused him to react this way? Was there other circumstances that played in other than simply not wearing a helmet. He could have suffered a broken neck that could have killed him even if he was wearing a helmet. Dale Ernhardt was wearing a helmet when he crashed. I could go on, and I know you all would appreciate that. I'm not playing devils advocate, but things like this will cause any opponent of helmet choice will stand up and say "Ah, ha, I told you so!"
Edited by Cap'n Nemo 2011-07-03 4:48 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 741
Central New York | Then again, had he taken the safety course, and learned from it, he would have been wearing a helmet, along with the rest of the proper gear that you must wear to take the course. Unless that part of the course is non-applicable? 
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | some things are a paradox.... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 741
Central New York | Great discussion.
Happy 4th of July! Now I'm leaving for the lake to do what American's do best, blow so shit up, make a lot of noise, and have a few beers. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | ...I hope I will not read about you in the paper tomorrow, fireworks and alcohol, almost a certain disaster.
By the way, I just spent 4 hours in the hospital emergency room with my father for a passing out spell he had, he's 83. He was there for 10 hours because the ER was packed with people from pre-celebration mishaps involving alcohol and fireworks that kept him low on the priority list.
My Dad's doing great, going home tomorrow to celebrate freedom he fought for 58 years ago. Be safe!
Edited by Cap'n Nemo 2011-07-03 5:53 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1290
Ruskin, Fl | Article says "he hit the brakes, fishtailed and spun out of control". There is a case to made for ABS than. Inexperienced riders mash that rear brake in a panic and make the mistake of releasing it when they lock the wheel and it's all over. The highside crash. Sounds like what happened here possibly. |
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Tourer
Posts: 447
Cleveland, GA | Cap'n Nemo - ... maybe we need to wear helmets in the shower. Umm... That would have kept me from having to get stitches on my noggin about 23 years ago when I was showering in a hotel room, dropped my washcloth (at least it wasn't the soap!) and smacked my head on the faucet when I straightened up... The cut was clean, anyway... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 965
New York State | cw1115 - 2011-07-03 6:15 PM
Article says "he hit the brakes, fishtailed and spun out of control". There is a case to made for ABS than. Inexperienced riders mash that rear brake in a panic and make the mistake of releasing it when they lock the wheel and it's all over. The highside crash. Sounds like what happened here possibly.
There is not enough information in the article it is a sad and ironic situation.
For all we know the driver was intoxicated.
because we know only the event he attended and that he hurt his head and died.
Everything else would be speculation.
A man who never smoked a cigerette in his life will still die if run over by a truck delivering cigerettes
Edited by Trekwolf164 2011-07-03 6:48 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | I said it before - and I'll say it again:
More people die from head injuries getting out of bed - than die in motorcycle accidents from head injuries.
This is TRUE - I researched it 30-odd years ago - when helmet laws were introduced in B.C. My arguement at the time was: We should also make helmets manditory when we go to bed. Makes as much sense .... |
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Tourer
Posts: 307
Columbia, SC | donetracey - 2011-07-03 8:54 PM
I said it before - and I'll say it again:
More people die from head injuries getting out of bed - than die in motorcycle accidents from head injuries.
This is TRUE - I researched it 30-odd years ago - when helmet laws were introduced in B.C. My arguement at the time was: We should also make helmets manditory when we go to bed. Makes as much sense ....Raw numbers, I'd believe it. But percentage of people who RIDE dying of head injuries vs percentage of people who SLEEP IN A BED dying getting out of bed and injuring their head...I bet that's another story.
Alexi
PS - You know, it makes common sense to protect your noggin. You don't hear about people protesting wearing seatbelts. They don't do it, and it's against the law, and they may end up paying the price for it. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 28
| It's very sad this happened and I hate to hear things like this. I do get tired of hearing the bs line "why should society be required to pay someone's medical bills" because it doesn't hold water. If the person who crashed dies, then there are no taxpayer dollars used. If the person becomes a vegetable there are a lot of it depends before the taxpayers pick up the tab, e.g. insurance, personal wealth, family, etc.
I have yet to see any credible statistics on how much motorcycle rides who crashed without a helmet actually cost taxpayers. I suspect it is very little.
I personally believe in choice and I do happen to choose riding with a helmet. I don't need or want to make that choice for someone else. |
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Tourer
Posts: 492
Indianapolis, IN | sfalexi - 2011-07-03 9:20 PM donetracey - 2011-07-03 8:54 PM I said it before - and I'll say it again: More people die from head injuries getting out of bed - than die in motorcycle accidents from head injuries. This is TRUE - I researched it 30-odd years ago - when helmet laws were introduced in B.C. My arguement at the time was: We should also make helmets manditory when we go to bed. Makes as much sense ....Raw numbers, I'd believe it. But percentage of people who RIDE dying of head injuries vs percentage of people who SLEEP IN A BED dying getting out of bed and injuring their head...I bet that's another story. Alexi PS - You know, it makes common sense to protect your noggin. You don't hear about people protesting wearing seatbelts. They don't do it, and it's against the law, and they may end up paying the price for it. Percentages or not, a helmet in bed would save a whole lot of people. I think the point is if the government is going to enforce safety regulations for one group of people they may as well open the flood gates and regulate everything that could possibly kill a person. It's getting stupid how much the government wants to control us. They could just outlaw motorcycles and solve the whole problem. In the mean time 3700 abortions will be performed in the US daily, the doctors and clinics that provide the services allowed to and protected by Federally mandated Judicial law, 90% of which were performed on viable healthy fetuses with healthy mothers, 15% of which were paid for by you and I. BTW 115,000 human fetuses are aborted daily world wide. And we are worried about a guy dying doing what he loves. Yea he could of, should of, chosen to wear a helmet. But I think we've got much bigger problems to deal with on a state of federal level. God rest his soul! God forgive us for looking the other way! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | I read a different article about the same incident and it states it was not his bike and he was not familiar with the characteristics that may have led to the mishap. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | He hit the brakes and it fishtailed. Now some insurance lawyer will want manditory ABS on all bikes. Where does it end? Like the comercial says, they,ve improved everything but the driver. They are slowly taking away rights in the name of saftey. ABS, airbags, traction control, seat belts and people are still dieing in automobiles. Pay over 30 years in insurance premiums without an accident, have one fenderbender and your rates go up. Bottom line is, insurance companies like to taks your money, they don't like giving it back.
There is more to this story we will never know. Because the rider is dead. Shit happens. When it's my turn, I hope I go quickly.
When I learned to drive I was told I am no better than the worst driver on the road. Meaning, no matter how good you are, they will find you. Just glad he didn't take anyone with him. If he had lived, how much of a burden would he have been to the insurance co.?
Rides like this attract all kinds of people, good and bad. That's why I stay away from them. |
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NY man dies protesting helmet law