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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | I did a test on both my Vision and my Harley RoadGlide. First lets set up the test parameters. Test was today between 1:00PM and 3:30 PM. When I tested the RoadGlide it was 93F and when I tested the Vision it was 94.5 F. I rode both motorcycles 25 miles from my house to I-20 and then rode at 77-85 mph for 40 miles on the highway, as soon as I got off the highway I stopped the bikes at the top of the same exit and I put a heat reading gun on the cylinder heads, the crankcase and checked the oil temp. To be fair I checked all the heads on the sparkplug side with bias towards the exhaust port. The results blew me away: The RG front head was 275F & the rear 325F. On the Vision the front head was 225F & the rear 245F. Oil temp on the RG read 237F at the analouge dash gauge and 249F at the dipstick. I don't have a oil temp gauge for the Vision but the oil cooler itself read read between 190F and 203F depending on location of pointing at routing tubes or fins. So lets say 198F average. The temp of the crankcases between the cylinders right at the deck was 236F for the RG and 220F for the Vision.
I would have a hard time believing this if I hadn't done it myself for two reasons 1) the engines are almost the same displacement: the RG is 104.7 X 101.6= 1749cc & the Vision is 101 X 108= 1731cc. The compression on the RG is 10.25:1 and the VV is 9.4:1. At max power they make about the same, VV has 115HP and the RG has 113HP. One thing different is the gearing: the RG spins 3500 rpm @ 80mph ( five speed tranny ) while the VV spins only 3000 @ 80mph. That would account for some but not all this heat difference.
Lastly I can ride the RG way more comfortably with shorts on than the VV, but I believe it's because I don't have lowers on the RG and my legs are in a larger free cooling airstream...It's surely not because the RG engine is cooler.................. |
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Tourer
Posts: 444
Bay of Gigs, WA | Maybe the Vic is hotter feeling because it's more efficient at shedding heat produced by the engine?
Edited by rainryder 2011-06-03 3:58 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 444
Bay of Gigs, WA | What kind of oil are you using? Uh-oh-I just killed another kitten... |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | I thought of that too and that probably accounts for some of the way it feels to legs in short pants while riding down the road............The VV has way more surface area finning, especially comparing the cam chain side to the pushrod side of the Harley........... |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | I do believe now I'll get an oil cooler for the RG................ |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | The VV has standard victory oil in it and The RG has Amsoils 20w-50......... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| now the big question....and I am not being a smart ass here, I really want to know. how much $$$ did it cost to get the RG to 113 HP and how much $$$ did it take to get the VV to 115? thanks Jeff |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| I think the aluminum panels on the VV flow the heat out onto your legs where the RG has nothing to flow the heat onto your legs.
I have no more heat issues now that I cut the panel on the right side.
(IMG_0118.JPG)
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | John, that is interesting..............Thanks for the picture.
Edited by XRsteve 2011-06-03 6:35 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Jeff: Round figures, $2500.00 for the Vision and $ 5500.00 for the RoadGlide.........I got discounts on both......... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | The VV cylinders are slightly offset to each other. The connecting rods are bolted to the crank journal side by side not forked like the HD. Not sure how much of a difference in air flow this creates but the little stuff adds up. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | The small offset probably helps the rear cylinder some amount, even on the Vision the rear head was 20F hotter than the front, there are alot of reasons, I'm just telling everybody the actual figures I read, it's not a "real" double blind scientific test, but it shows quite a bit of difference.............
Edited by XRsteve 2011-06-03 8:47 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | XRSteve, what an interesting test! However, I think the fly in the ointment is that you were stopped when you took your measurements. My heat issues, are primarily when I am moving. That's not to say I don't have issues when I am stopped, it's more that I expect to be hot when I'm not moving. So it would be very interesting to know the temperature around your ankles and calves during a ride. I am sure such a test would reveal your legs are much cooler on the Road Glide. And no, I have no idea how to accomplish that!
Since you mentioned you do not have lowers on the Road Glide it seems somewhat obvious to me the airflow is a big issue. While the Road Glide it might be hotter when stopped, while riding the increased airflow on the Road Glide gives you more comfort.
As I've mentioned on other posts, my heat issue is on the left side with the heat that pours off the oil cooler. And it seems I am in the minority in in that regard. I think John frey's solution is ingenious. Hopefully he will post more information on exactly how he accomplished his job.
Alternatively, it would be nice if Victory or someone else, developed a tube or duct system, directing airflow to the rider's legs on both sides. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | I always thought a duct system of some kind would be nice too.............. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | Yea, I'm somewhat surprised that Vic did not include a venting system in the design, something that looks nice, hidden in the lines of the bike, and also functional. Surely there is something better looking than adding those fugly (sorry guys, my opinion) lowers to a beautiful bike. I will NEVER add those lowers! Well, if I ever get my new 8 Ball back from the dealer (now 8 days and counting) perhaps I'll work on trying to figure out something.
Edited by MaddMAx2u 2011-06-04 9:07 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 554
2 mi from Jim Beam n KY | I would love to see some details on cutting the panels. What measurements, tools, attachments, bit sizes, etc. |
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Tourer
Posts: 494
Akron Ohio area | The lowers work great and I would rather have them mounted then to start hacking away at the Tuperware. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Nothing is free: If you remove some panel material to allow more air to bypass the engine and cool our legs, then it takes some of the cooling air away from the cylinders, but since the cylinders run so cool anyway it probably wouldn't do any harm at all.............. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | I'm not sure it would take anything away from the cylinders. Rather than decreasing head flow to the cylinders, it seems to me you are increasing overall air flow. I really don't think cylinder head temp is an issue. I run my air cooled tractor in the heat for hours on end and it ain't complaining about airflow!! Yea, before you say it, I know. Your bike is not a tractor. Same principle though and my tractor engine works just as hard as my bike engine. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | I don't think it would hurt it either............ looks like a good idea............ |
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | DannyB - 2011-06-04 7:12 AM
I would love to see some details on cutting the panels. What measurements, tools, attachments, bit sizes, etc.
Arizon Victory has been modifying the left side around the oil cooler. http://www.arizonavictory.com/miscpage_007.asp
I guess they saw the need.
(Scroll to the bottom of the page) |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | Someone made COOLING VENTS for the Vision!! Not sure I like the design, but someone did it!!
http://www.napalmmotorsports.com/custompage.asp?pg=custom |
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Tourer
Posts: 444
Bay of Gigs, WA | My old Yamaha Venture had vents on the dash to cool and on the sides of the fairings also, that were rectangular in a vertical fashion, opened and closed like venetian blinds-very nice. I'm thinking about something like that for my '08, either painted silver to match the cover, or chrome if I can find some at the junkyard. Maybe something out of a Caddy or Lexus, in keeping with the mission of the bike... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 849
, FL United States | bigfoot - 2011-06-04 10:32 AM
The lowers work great and I would rather have them mounted than to start hacking away at the Tupperware.
+1 |
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Cruiser
Posts: 94
milwaukee wisconsin | XRsteve - 2011-06-03 3:35 PM
I did a test on both my Vision and my Harley RoadGlide. First lets set up the test parameters. Test was today between 1:00PM and 3:30 PM. When I tested the RoadGlide it was 93F and when I tested the Vision it was 94.5 F. I rode both motorcycles 25 miles from my house to I-20 and then rode at 77-85 mph for 40 miles on the highway, as soon as I got off the highway I stopped the bikes at the top of the same exit and I put a heat reading gun on the cylinder heads, the crankcase and checked the oil temp. To be fair I checked all the heads on the sparkplug side with bias towards the exhaust port. The results blew me away: The RG front head was 275F & the rear 325F. On the Vision the front head was 225F & the rear 245F. Oil temp on the RG read 237F at the analouge dash gauge and 249F at the dipstick. I don't have a oil temp gauge for the Vision but the oil cooler itself read read between 190F and 203F depending on location of pointing at routing tubes or fins. So lets say 198F average. The temp of the crankcases between the cylinders right at the deck was 236F for the RG and 220F for the Vision.
I would have a hard time believing this if I hadn't done it myself for two reasons 1) the engines are almost the same displacement: the RG is 104.7 X 101.6= 1749cc & the Vision is 101 X 108= 1731cc. The compression on the RG is 10.25:1 and the VV is 9.4:1. At max power they make about the same, VV has 115HP and the RG has 113HP. One thing different is the gearing: the RG spins 3500 rpm @ 80mph ( five speed tranny ) while the VV spins only 3000 @ 80mph. That would account for some but not all this heat difference.
Lastly I can ride the RG way more comfortably with shorts on than the VV, but I believe it's because I don't have lowers on the RG and my legs are in a larger free cooling airstream...It's surely not because the RG engine is cooler.................. so let me get this staight you are rideing a motorcycle in shorts and complaning about heat first of let me say you'r a dumb ass for rideing around in shorts just wait t'ill you go down wearing shorts and the road grinds the flesh off then you won't think it was such a great idea to wear shorts !! |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | If you ever see me out riding say that to my face............ |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Always some jerk don't like the way some one else dresses or their paint job or something.........
Edited by XRsteve 2011-06-06 4:01 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | XRsteve,
First and foremost, thank you for taking the time to gather the temperature readings you observed. This information helps me better understand the machine I ride.
Second, in about an hour I will be riding to a Yoga class.....**now stop laughing. I have been taking Yoga for about three weeks and it is really working out very well...at least for me it has. I stay in the back of the class to offend less people.
On the way to Yoga I sometimes ride in just shirt, shorts, helmet, glasses and running shoes. Other times I put on some loose jeans over the workout shorts but still wear running shoes. The ride is short about two miles on city streets. But the ride takes my through one very dangerous intersection. Every time I pull up to this intersection I look very hard, including behind me, for the SOB that is going to hit me and so far have identified and avoided them all.
As an adult, riding is shorts from time to time when I go to work out is a risk I choose to take. I understand the problems it can cause. I might ride in shorts on rare occasions but I always wear a helmet...if you figure that one out let me know.
** If you are not laughing you should be. Picture in your mind an sweaty, sixty-five pound over weight, white, short, bald, gray bearded guy holding a "Down Dog" position for any length of time. Yoga is a great low impact workout that any Vision Rider should do if they sit on their butt all day.
Ride Safe
Edited by radioteacher 2011-06-06 5:10 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Is she in your class ?? Sign me up too................. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | Radioteacher: "I stay in the back of the class to offend less people." Gee Paul, after seeing that pose, you're such a trouper. Always there to take one for the team.  |
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | I'm glad you sent that picture and not one of you doing it. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | ...and he said it with a straight face... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 115
Columbus, Ga | I think one reason you feel more heat from a vision compared to a harley is that the motor is more in front of you when seated than the harley. This is how the lower seat hieght is accomplished. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | Radio, thanks for the sound of sanity. We all ride differently, choose to wear or not wear various forms of protection. It's all a personal choice and it's why I am proud to be an American. I have the choice to wear what I want, regardless of what others might think. You sometimes wear shorts and a helmet. Now don't laugh, but I would NEVER consider wearing shorts while riding. Yet, I never wear a helmet unless I am required to by state law!! Figure that one out!! Thankfully, I live in FL which allows me the helmet choice. I see some people wearing ever manner of protective gear out there including a $700 full face helmet and riding a Goldwing with an airbag. Me, I say....hey, but a car! But what makes America the great place it is...... is that we all have the right to choose. I hear America the Beautiful playing in the background! LOL
And thank YOU ver much. Thank you for choosing to post the pic of the chick and not the pic of you posing in the down dog position!! Bless you sir! Bless you! |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | XRsteve - 2011-06-06 5:38 PM
Is she in your class ?? Sign me up too.................
Yes, yoga was good today. Stretching out like the picture below I popped some vertebra in my back as high as the bottom of my shoulder blades to just above my hips. My back is really talking to me now. Ibuprofen is my friend.
I was the only guy in class today out of about fifteen students.
They ranged in age from 50 to 20 something and they were all in excellent shape plus they did a very good job holding their poses during class.
Before you get any silly ideas......my wife is friends with the instructor and at least two others in the class. A matter of fact she knows everyone who works at the gym and many who workout there. Basically, this is her network of spies and stalkers that report back to her my every move in real time.
Ride Safe
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | SongFan - 2011-06-06 5:52 PM
Radioteacher: "I stay in the back of the class to offend less people." Gee Paul, after seeing that pose, you're such a trouper.? Always there to take one for the team.
Tom,
You know I am always willing to help when I can.
In my Saturday Yoga class there is a avid rider who currently rides an R6. Considering that he is my age, weight and just a tad taller then me....I would not thought he would be comfortable on a crotch rocket. This guy really loves bikes that go fast....must faster then a Vision.
Sorry for the thread hijacking. Back to your regularly scheduled discussion on engine heat difference!
Ride Safe
Edited by radioteacher 2011-06-06 9:57 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| so let me get this staight you are rideing a motorcycle in shorts and complaning about heat first of let me say you'r a dumb ass for rideing around in shorts just wait t'ill you go down wearing shorts and the road grinds the flesh off then you won't think it was such a great idea to wear shorts !!
what a dick |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| so let me get this staight you are rideing a motorcycle in shorts and complaning about heat first of let me say you'r a dumb ass for rideing around in shorts just wait t'ill you go down wearing shorts and the road grinds the flesh off then you won't think it was such a great idea to wear shorts !!
what a dick |
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Cruiser
Posts: 79
Austin, Texas | I get more heat on my left ankle (I assume from the oil cooler) than on my right leg. The right leg gets really toasty at and above the knee (about where the pipe gets the closest). I agree on the lowers. I bought a pair, spent about a week looking at them from different angles, and took them back to the dealer. I just can't do it. It may solve all the heat problems but IMHO it ruins the lines of the lower fairing.
I've started wearing "burn gaiters" over the hospital scrubs I run to and from work in. For the most part these solve the issue. These are made by Fieldsheer, run about $19, and attach by velcro strap. Simple and direct. But the classic central Texas heat is already over 100 (103 predicted today) which makes it impossible to defeat the heat. |
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Tourer
Posts: 444
Bay of Gigs, WA | I love yoga. Especially the kind with the fruit in the bottom of the little cups. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | rainryder - 2011-06-07 12:17 PM
I love yoga. Especially the kind with the fruit in the bottom of the little cups.
+1 |
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