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Tourer
Posts: 562
SC, Bluffton | I got lucky. Driving out of the neighborhood (radio volume on low), I detected an odd rattle.
I started clamping things with my left hands while I slowly drove. Then I saw one of the square
backings to the windshield bolts was missing. I pulled into a cul-de-sac and stopped. The bolt
was still in there, and the square backing part was down below the windshield garnish! Whohoo!
I pulled the windshield garnish out of the gommets and grabbed the backer amoungst the leaves
and pinestraw.
I remember when installing the Cee-Bailey's the instructions wanted finger pounds of torque
or something silly sounding to me. I made sure I didn't overtighten them, but guess I have never
checked them in 3 years.
I just wanted everyone to check theirs next washing. Assuming you wash the Vision. 
Herb
Edited by g1nomad 2011-06-01 12:04 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | ....all of mine have fallen out and I'm using stove bolts to hold the shield on now. I knew there would be a down fall to not washing the bike.... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | Cap'n.......stove bolts? Duct Tape my man, Duct Tape! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | MaddMAx2u - 2011-06-01 2:16 PM
Cap'n.......stove bolts? Duct Tape my man, Duct Tape!
I'll get me a sturdy piece of cardboard and make a blade windshield using matching duct tape. I'll have to get bigger washers to hold it on though. Another Vision accessory.... cheap too! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | Now yer talkin' Cap'n!!! |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| I put a dab of silicon on the square nuts and a dab on the bolts. They might come loose but they will never leave the bike.
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Tourer
Posts: 562
SC, Bluffton | john frey - 2011-06-01 2:37 PM
I put a dab of silicon on the square nuts and a dab on the bolts. They might come loose but they will never leave the bike.
Good idea. I need to get a new tube of the clear stuff anyhow.
Herb |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 785
Mt. Vernon, WASH. | Inch Pounds-12 inch pounds equals 1 foot pound and you can very easily exert 300 inch pounds without much effort with your four fingers!
I've installed flight control bolts that required 25 inch pounds maximum and the shanks would fail @ 27 inch pounds and airplane parts ain't cheap!
Rent or borrow an in/lb torque wrench, practice with it because it requires a lot of practice to get the 'feel' of such tiny force, and use red locktite on the threads. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | I am so glad my fingers are calibrated... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | Mine are calibrated annually by the Institute of Weights and Measures and certified to be "Dead on, Balls Accurate"
Edited by MaddMAx2u 2011-06-01 6:34 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 785
Mt. Vernon, WASH. | So, then what would you do if you had to install a castellated nut on a drilled bolt and the nuts torque range was 25 to 100 foot pounds, and the cotter pin hole was required to line up without overtightening or backing off the nut? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | Simple SYNSTR...... I'd be really really careful! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | SYNSTR - 2011-06-01 8:39 PM
So, then what would you do if you had to install a castellated nut on a drilled bolt and the nuts torque range was 25 to 100 foot pounds, and the cotter pin hole was required to line up without overtightening or backing off the nut?
oooooh, I love castellated nuts, especially the carmal ones. But synstr, I think it can be done by adjusting the ambient tempature to achieve the proper torque while aligning the slot to cotter pin hole. Also, would this be a brass cottor pin, or steel? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 785
Mt. Vernon, WASH. | FAIL!
You aren't working on my airplane! and wise guy answers or 'shine ons' get people killed.
Start @ 25 ft/lbs set on the torque wrench (the permitted bottom of the torque range). tighten until the wrench 'breaks' or 'clicks' ONE TIME, NOT TWICE! ONCE! check you hole alignment, if you're not quite there but can 'get there' with a minor tightening, reset your wrench to say 50 ft/lbs and slowly tighten until you line the hole up, insert the cotterpin and finish the job, as long as you donot exceed the upper torque limits you will be OK. (it sometimes helps to use a SHARPIE to draw the location of the cotterpin hole on the end of the bolt for reference.)but I'll bet that somewhere between 25 and 100 ft/lbs we find that pesky coterpin hole! Made that bet with hundreds of new airplane mechanics over the years and never lost a bet.
If you learned to 'click' a torque wrench twice you're doing it wrong and over torquing, when the wrench clicks, that is the set torque, if you pull again you've just overshot the recommended torque by who knows how much and overtightened the nut. On the other hand, if you change position of the wrench and it clicks immediately, the nut is NOT torqued correctly. Back the nut off 1/2 turn and reapply in a smooth, continuious pull until the wrench clicks once. And don't 'choke up' on the wrench, that gives a false, usually under tightened torqueand potential for failure.
Sorry if I seem anal about this stuff, but for 45 years my job required me to be dead accurate every time on every task or 300 people fell out of the sky and died in a cornfield so it's normal that it carries over as should all good maintenance practices when it comes to maintenance whether it's an airplane or a hubcap on the car. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | oh my, this was a real test. Can I go back and study and try again? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | SYNSTR, I'm not sure that's correct. And we're not carrying 300 people on our bikes. At least I'm not. Anyhow, I think the correct answer is Cap'n Nemo's. Although I would add a bit of spit to my cotter pin before insertion. Insertion. Gee, that almost sounds dirty! LOL |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | SYNSTR - 2011-06-01 9:21 PM
If you learned to 'click' a torque wrench twice you're doing it wrong and over torquing, when the wrench clicks, that is the set torque, if you pull again you've just overshot the recommended torque by who knows how much and overtightened the nut. On the other hand, if you change position of the wrench and it clicks immediately, the nut is NOT torqued correctly. Back the nut off 1/2 turn and reapply in a smooth, continuous pull until the wrench clicks once. And don't 'choke up' on the wrench, that gives a false, usually under tightened torque and potential for failure.
Sorry if I seem anal about this stuff, but for 45 years my job required me to be dead accurate every time on every task or 300 people fell out of the sky and died in a cornfield so it's normal that it carries over as should all good maintenance practices when it comes to maintenance whether it's an airplane or a hubcap on the car.
SYNSTR,
I swear I learn something useful every time I check the posts on Vision-Riders.com!
Now I will never double click nor choke up on a torque wrench again.
Thank you and take care.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 785
Mt. Vernon, WASH. | It doesn't make any difference if you are carrying 300 folks or just your own happy heiney, the principles are the same. Maybe if the guys who ride Milwaukee Middle Busters would do a bit of research before giving bolts a 'grunt, that's good' they wouldn't need the new guys to ride drag picking up dropped parts and assemblies.
Do it right and do it once vs. constantly retightening or failing parts from too much torque. You don't need to spend a ton of money on a couple of small torque wrenches, in fact the ones you can find @ SEARS may be better and more accurate than the big dollar ones from the SNAP-IT-OFF or other tool trucks. Just find a metrology shop in your area (like a scale calibrating company) and have your wrenches checked, then treat them like gold, meaning don't toss them around or drop them, or use them to loosen bolts. If you do drop one, just to be on the safe side, take it in for a checkup the small investment will be worth it in the long run.
The most accurate style of wrench is the direct reading dial types, digitals can be off by as much as 10 or 15% before cal. I bought one from the Snap-it-off truck and it wouldn't cal, swapped it out and that one wouldn't cal either, finally bought an OTTUMWA TOOL CO, 100-300 ft/lb one (don't even know if they're still in business) but it checks good every time it goes to the doctor. I used a dial type to torque the body attach bolts on the first B-1 prototype to 1 foot ton (2000 lbs). Your grandpas old beam type is best put in a clear plastic tube with a note on it that says 'IN EMERGENCY, BREAK GLASS" then hang it on the garage wall and don't ever use one! They are Flintstones tools and wildly inaccurate.
Never use the bottom 10% of the scale or the upper 20% as the readings won't be spot on and you want your wrench to always be working in the sweet spot. Torquing from the head of a bolt requires a bigger torque, usually +20 lbs. but check with your supplier @ the nut and bolt store knowing that kind of stuff is their business, NOT the aisle donkey @ HOMER or SLOWES, those guys don't know where they parked their cars!
I about jump over the couch watching some of these hot rod shows on TV where the engine 'guru' is blazing away doing rods or head bolts and it sounds like a room full of old REMINGTON typewriters or toy crickets.
Edited by SYNSTR 2011-06-02 1:25 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | Now that's entertainment! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 95
Alberta, Canada | I put LocTight on mine fellows and no more problems!! Happy biking our season has finally began!!!
Edited by Plumley 2011-06-03 11:31 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 444
Bay of Gigs, WA | I got some lock tite that's blue, some that's red. What's the difference? The labels are compromised, and they're pretty vague, too, if I remember...
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Iron Butt
Posts: 785
Mt. Vernon, WASH. | Blue will hold most screws and bolts very well, red is extra secure and Harley uses it by the tank car load. Put something on with red and you better be really happy with where it is because it's very difficult to break it free again. |
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Tourer
Posts: 444
Bay of Gigs, WA | Years ago, the turbo 400 tranny in my old motorhome started leaking after I changed the fluid. I bought another gasket, got the pan off and tapped it so the flange was totally smooth, and set my torque wrench to the required 12 (or 18, I forget) ft/lbs, and torqued it in a cross flange fashion. Still leaked. Finally after a year or so, I took it to a local tranny shop full of old guys and paid them for a fluid change, the guy took the pan off, looked at the flange, said it was great, and stuck it back on with the new filter, using the crappy thin gasket I had discarded, that came with the kit, then tightened it up by going around the circumference. I asked him, "Are you gonna use a torque wrench on those?", and he replied calmly, "Why? Didn't you hear my elbow click?"
It never leaked again. Dumbfounded. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 785
Mt. Vernon, WASH. | The British don't accept the philosophy that gaskets should keep fluids in, which explains a lot about British cars and engines.
He'd probably done 15,000 tranny fluid changes. My training and philosophy has been 'you can't pull over to a cloud if something falls off' the difference between airplanes and cars. |
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Tourer
Posts: 444
Bay of Gigs, WA | Although I've heard many a pilot has asked, "What's that mountain goat doing standing on that cloud way up here?" prior to controlled flight into terrain!
And I ALWAYS install with the head of the bolt pointing up! |
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Tourer
Posts: 444
Bay of Gigs, WA | BTW SYNSTR, What are you doing indoors playing on the computer on a glorious day like this? Unless you're at work wasting time like me, that is...Gonna be an outstanding weekend, it looks like!
Edited by rainryder 2011-06-03 4:44 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 785
Mt. Vernon, WASH. | NAW! I'm retired but spent the morning killing myself pulling vetch out of the flowerbeds (the local wild rabbits love it, I wish they'd eat it all in one sitting!), blasting weeds(we have a fine crop of fireweed this year), and trying to uplug a stopped up downspout(dumbassed wasps tried to build a nest in a downspout, that was like getting oatmeal out of a shag rug).
Saturday I have to stroll down to Lynnwood to get parts for my airbrush @ GALAXY Hobbies and see if MOTOPLEX has a big VIC back patch for my vest, it could take me hours to get there and back up I-5 to the house either via Hwy 9 or Pioneer Hwy and La Conner.
Enjoy our first really nice weekend bros. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 785
Mt. Vernon, WASH. | UP, Forward, or Outboard 'phone call for Captain Treestuffer' |
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Cruiser
Posts: 161
Oregon. | My wind shield sounded like it was coming loose, what was the required torque setting? |
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Windshield Bolts