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New user
Posts: 2
Waterford, NY | It's with humility I submit to my fellow Vision riders for some words of wisdom for keeping this 900 lb bike (plus 300 lb of passenger), upright when stopping. My challenge has been in parking lots and other tight areas. The margin of error in being even slightly off of perfectly upright, seems to be small enough to make the bike want to go down. I'd appreciate any feedback or words of wisdom from some of you more experienced riders. Much appreciated! |
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Tourer
Posts: 492
Indianapolis, IN | <p>Welcome to the forum! I assume you are new to your vision. Like any bike time on the bike will build skill and confidence. Some days I don't even think about balancing at slow speeds while two up and other days I seem to struggle. We've put about 21K on the bike in the last year, about 70% two up and I still have to work a little at stops with the wife on board. </p><p>Practice riding very slow two up in a parking lot. Slow speed skill can't be learned under normal road speeds. Get used to easing to a full stop with the bike in a state of full balance. This may not be much fun for the passenger but it is crucial to get good at it for public riding conditions. Out on the street is no place to learn this one. Another one is to practice panic stops. Sudden light changes and the car in front of you slamming on the brakes gives you little choice. This is the one that I find the most challenging. The bike is already tough to manage at slow speeds, then throw in the inertial energy of a sudden stop and it can really test your skill. Good luck.</p>
Edited by hoosiervic 2011-05-23 6:36 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 206
Lumber Bridge, NC United States | make sure your front wheel is straight when you come to a stop, if it is turned to the right or left it will feel very unstable and want to lean as it were falling to either side the wheel is turned almost learned that one the hard way. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 9
| I feel your pain, I rode my VV 08 for 2 years, loved the bike. Had over 16,000 miles on it, but because of those tippy issue's with, and without my wife on the back. The darn thing is heavy, and I'm 152 lbs. We traded for a Victory Crossbow. We're leaving for Alaska in 3 weeks pulling a Aspen Classic Camper. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | Much practice solo, much. Also, it is recommended and it has helped me a lot to exercise and keep my legs up in strength. Being in the Army for 20+ years and Airborne to boot gave perty strong legs. I helped in moments of unsteadiness to keep the bike from going beyond the point of no return. Also, exercise helps keep the mind sharp and I believe it helps for balance and coordination.
But shy of all of that, practice, practice, practice... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 123
NE Florida Jacksonville | I would suggest the "Ride like a pro" videos as a good starting point for learning low speed riding. Any one can ride fast, riding slow will take mucho practice but it is worth it. Once you become comfortable doing that you confidence ridig two up won't be an issue. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 199
Salt Lake City | +1 on getting the vids, lots of slow speed practice in a parking lot(with and without passenger), keeping that front tire straight, and practice using just the right amount of clutch-especially when going slow/turning. When I'm in tight or slow situations, the clutch is my best friend.... |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | The "Ride Like A Pro V" video is a must. If you have a Motorcycle Safety Foundation - Experience Riders Course in you area take it!
If you are lucky enough to have a "Ride Like A Pro" course in your area take that too!
In the "Ride Like A Pro V" video one of the female instructors rides Two Up on a tight figure 8 course with the Jerry ?Motorman? Palladino on the back. If she can do it is not about strength.
http://www.ridelikeapro.com/
Here is what you can do with a a Vision and a little practice... It is the 24 foot wide by 60 foot ERC box in the video...I can also do the 20 foot wide box.
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Cruiser
Posts: 117
Kansas City, MO | keep your eyes up - you will be surprised how much diffrence this makes. I had a slow speed rule with my wife - dont move, dont lean over my shoulder to tell me something, dont re adjust unless you tell me first, and I say ok. I was never a bad guy to her, we just didnt want to fall down |
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Cruiser
Posts: 185
Rhode Island | dan camarco - 2011-05-23 7:54 PM
make sure your front wheel is straight when you come to a stop, if it is turned to the right or left it will feel very unstable and want to lean as it were falling to either side the wheel is turned almost learned that one the hard way.
+1.
I had a friend that would drop the bike when stopping at an intersection and what I noticed is he would turn towards the direction he was going to go while stopping. This would happen 4 or 5 times a year until I pointed out that he was doing that with the front brake on and it was throwing off the balance.
Jim |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | I learned very quickly not to use the front brake in slow moving conditions like parking lots or those final feet coming to a stop. I ride totally hands off of the brake in parking lot manuevers. There again, review the material above from others, and go practise. If you have not taken a motorcycle safety course, put that on the top of your list and go. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1350
| A couple of things I learned over the years. First, get your passenger to take the M/C rider classes. They will better understand what you are going through. It's like night and day with a trained passenger. Second, I have 28 inch inseam. I have my passenger move their feet back on the floorboards when we stop. If I feel the toe of their boot against my calf when stopping my leg jumps and throws me out of sync.
It's bad enough stopping on a rise on a hill for a stop light but with a passenger it's multiplied. I guess only experience can solve this one.
I really push the M/C classes. They never have to ride their own bike after but it means a LOT to me. My daughter Kara took the classes but never went for the tests. I don't even realize she is back there until she says something.
Hope this helps. |
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Tourer
Posts: 374
Tucson, AZ | Best thing I can add is time and experiance, for both rider and passenger. The more a passenger is paying attention the easier it will get. Going down the road crusing is a different scenario than riding in traffic. The have to be just as aware as the rider....good luck...
mike |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | I forgot to mention that when I ride two up I put on my best boots. They are a little taller in the heel and have great traction. They provide me greater confidence when putting my feet down.
http://www.copshoes.com/c-chippewa-boots-p-CH-27868.html
Ride Safe
Edited by radioteacher 2011-05-24 6:37 AM
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 Chippewa.jpg (13KB - 1 downloads)
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
| I would have to agree, practice and practice some more. I'm 6'2" 230 and have lifted for years so I'm in good shape. That being said I still had to practice when riding two up. It's just different when someone is on the back. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Mr Sug - 2011-05-23 10:18 PM
keep your eyes up - you will be surprised how much diffrence this makes. I had a slow speed rule with my wife - dont move, dont lean over my shoulder to tell me something, dont re adjust unless you tell me first, and I say ok. I was never a bad guy to her, we just didnt want to fall down
I have Tue same rule! Everyone in a while she forget and I bark at her to remind her of what could happen..I think a lot of it has to do with the passenger seat is so Much higher throwing off the center of gravity... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | I think if you go back a reread every post and jot down points you'll get to where you need to be. Yes, the dynamics of having a passenger changes and they have to be trained. But, at the same time, we as the pilot need to be ready in anticipation of something they might do unexpectantly. And if they do, do something, explain to them lovingly why they need to be attentive to what is going on and resist nature. I would never get my wife to go to a class, but I want her to ride. So I explained all the possible situations to her and what she should do, like, don't lean the opposite way when moving slow in a parking lot. I also take note of how she'll react in certain situations and anticipate before it happens and try to correct her. Now, with all that said, she's an excellent passenger and has never put us in a compromising situation. Also, we've been in some challenging situations that she never knew there was a hint of concern on my part.
I will say that I had to be 100% confident in my ability before she ever got on the first time. And when she did, we were in those safe environments to see what she would do. Like manuevering back streets and roads with little or no traffic, or parking lots where there were not a lot of cars, but I would "pretend" there were and would react as though they were. Today, we ride as one, and she understands what to do and not to do, but it took measured practice on both our parts. |
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Tourer
Posts: 520
Simi Valley, CA | Good points. I hardly ever ride two up, but when I do I noticed that when stopping, keeping the front wheel straight is the key for me. Not turning it when I stop to prepare for a upcoming turn. Almost dumped it a couple of times like that. You earn pretty quickly what works! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | What does Star Fleet have to say about that? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | I learned a valuable lesson about heavy bikes the first time I rode my e-glide. I dropped it at a stop sign when I put my foot down on a sandy surface.
1) Keep the bike as close to perpendicular to the road as you can when stopping. A passenger shifts the center of gravity up and to the rear and will really show you your bad habits.
2) Consider lowering the bike if you have short legs. While it's not my problem (I have a 36" inseam), it's hard to hold up a big touring bike if you are standing on your toes. You get a lot more leverage if you can spread your legs a little at a stop. Think of your feet as the base of a triangle . The wider the base the more stable it will be , as long as you are not shifting the center of gravity by leaning the bike.
My e-glide was lowered 1.5", my brother-in-law's bike is stock. The differences in the way they feel at low speed and at stop lights was pretty astonishing , esp. with a passenger. If you do lower your bike - get the Ness bash plate to protect the cases from speed bumps.
3)Wear rubber soled boots. Leather slips too easily and gets down right dangerous when surfaces are wet or sandy.
4) Always be sure of your surface before you put your feet down. Nothing is more embarrassing than putting a foot down and causally leaning 900 lbs of bike and then busting a hernia trying to keep it from falling over as the light changes because your foot slipped.
5) Finally - use the rear brake. While maneuvering at low speeds practice keeping the revs up a little and control your speed with the rear brake. It keeps the bike more controllable and reduces the effect of jerky throttle response that occurs when the EFI cuts out, which can effect your stability and your confidence. If you are free-wheeling you are not in control.
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Cruiser
Posts: 119
| SLOWING DOWN AND BALANCING FOR A STOP SIGN
1. In the process of stopping have your passenger lean slightly to the left. Various ways to do this......my wife moves her head and upper torso a few inches to the left. 2. Last ten feet of your stopping.......put your left leg out, with your foot a few inches from he pavement.....few inches from the bike. All things being equal....doing these two things will have the bike leaning toward the left at the stop. Eliminates the other option totally....bike leaning to the right at the stop. >>>>>> Other items 1. Come to a very gradual stop say over last 30 feet vs doing most of the braking near end of the stop. 2. Never apply heavy braking at a stop sign just the last few feet.........this always gets the Vision unstable for me, plus for some reason when I do this I put my left foot out and on the ground a tad too early and the bike is still moving.....ahhhhh not good. Just happens to me I am sure though. 3. Try rear brake only during slow stops.......then try rear brake and small delay to front brake and both evenly.......finally try front brake only. One will work for you. 4. Try each of the recommendations from others and ones in my post..........different things work for different people......however I will say after 10k on our Vision I still screw up a few slow stops each ride >>>>>> STOP SIGN ...and tight right turn.....not going to wide Apply the rear brake ever so slightly in the turn....wick up throttle a we bit to offset this. Doing this will allow the Vision to take these tight right turns from a stop much tighter. Same with left turns. People on this line told me this trick........great result. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 965
New York State | +1 on hands off the front brake learn to ride slow with clutch and rear brake.The Vision is very stable I have had Donna stand up and start taking pictures without ever bothering to tell me and we are still alive. |
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Tourer
Posts: 401
| Make a mental note; treat the bike with finesse not force. |
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Tourer
Posts: 520
Simi Valley, CA | Star fleet? Sulu drives most of the time, I normally say thing like, "Get us outta here Scotty", or "give me all the power you can muster mister", and of course, "all ahead warp factor 6".
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Cruiser
Posts: 119
| Trekwolf164 - 2011-05-24 1:06 PM +1 on hands off the front brake learn to ride slow with clutch and rear brake.The Vision is very stable I have had Donna stand up and start taking pictures without ever bothering to tell me and we are still alive. Actually, I like using just the front brake real soft for a gradual slow down to the stop when coming to a redlight or stop sign. Combine this with my wife leaning a wee bit to the left and it works ......ahhhhh......most of the time Using front brakes only keeps both feet ready to get on the ground from the same starting position on the floorboards. Ofcourse no gravel or stuff on the road that front brake would possibly lock due to lack of traction. Forgetting all the high theory and personal things that work for all of us on this topic.........the Vision can be a handfull at times coming to a stop light every now and then nomatter how many perfect/near perfect stops I have made that day. One thing for sure is each of us has an approach that works for us....and if we dont......lots of options here to try to find what does work. Mike |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | sgiacci - 2011-05-24 1:11 PM
Make a mental note; treat the bike with finesse not force.
That is the goal. With finesse you are one with the bike, and the bike does what you want it to do. That's when you know you are being to "master the art" of riding a motorcycle. |
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Tourer
Posts: 492
Indianapolis, IN | I don't know what it is exactly but sometimes as I said earlier I can just ease into stops, motor along in extremely slow traffic, and never feel like I'm having trouble balancing. Other times It just seems I can't get it right. Like you guys are saying, when it seems like I don't even have to try, that's when I feel at one with the bike. No doubt this is a developed skill and when you don't ride for a while it does seem to fade away. I guess the lesson is, ride as much as possible. Wow, what a pain in the a$$! ;-) |
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Cruiser
Posts: 119
| hoosiervic - 2011-05-25 10:31 PM I don't know what it is exactly but sometimes as I said earlier I can just ease into stops, motor along in extremely slow traffic, and never feel like I'm having trouble balancing. Other times It just seems I can't get it right. Like you guys are saying, when it seems like I don't even have to try, that's when I feel at one with the bike. No doubt this is a developed skill and when you don't ride for a while it does seem to fade away. I guess the lesson is, ride as much as possible. Wow, what a pain in the a$$! ;-) You are not alone!!!!! I lost track of this......do you ride two up or solo most. I have far more issue with balancing slow stops two up than solo. The reason for this I think is the passenger unweights the front a bit sitting way back there and this is not as noticeable when riding solo. Again we worked out a deal on slow stops where she leans a wee bit to the left and I put my left foot also.....this pretty much makes the bike lean to the left on slow stops......but not always. Sometimes she will scoot but a bit on slow stops and this also helps. However....I am just like you in that I can go the entire day without an issue ....and then 5 slow stops in a row I screw up. Mike |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | A few times a week I stop and think....'What in the hell did I do wrong this time?!'
Normally it is a simple thing....Head and eyes....Head up....Why did you look at the ground?....Was the front brake while off center in the turn a good idea?....I did'nt think so!
Identify and correct.....observe and learn! Do not let little mistakes become BIG mistakes.
After 23000 miles on my Vision I am a much better rider....but I have much more to learn.
Ride Safe |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 965
New York State | I'm with Radioteacher both in milage and out look. The more I ride my Vision the more I learn, some things are painful like getting bit by the rear tipovers and some are fun like cruise control.
Two up is always more difficult than solo. I usually really think about where I'm going to stop when Donna is on board. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 51
Edmonton AB, Canada | better not to use front brake in a slow stop to avoid fork dive.
Since my Vision has linked brakes I get a little of the front when braking with the rear.
Once in a while though especially when pointed down hill I have to drop both feet and use the front brake.
My 13 yr old son wiggles around like a bastard and it can get pretty close sometimes! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 741
Central New York | I dropped mine once early this spring. I was just starting to roll, maybe a foot or so, out of a driveway, when someone pulled in front of me from a parallel driveway. Like I said, I hadn't rolled much, still had my feet down. Anyway, I touched the front brake to stop and let the car go and it was like someone pulled the wheels out from under me. Not sure what happened, there was no stones or oil, nothing slippery. It was like I just touched the brake and it just jumped off balance. Past the point of no return. It was one of those sh--, hit the kill and get your feet out of the way! Thanl God for TOP! |
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Tourer
Posts: 401
| Cap'n Nemo - 2011-05-24 3:40 PM
sgiacci - 2011-05-24 1:11 PM
Make a mental note; treat the bike with finesse not force.
That is the goal. With finesse you are one with the bike, and the bike does what you want it to do. That's when you know you are being to "master the art" of riding a motorcycle.
Mentally there are good and bad days too.
Today is a good relaxing day (so far).
I was so relaxed and synced with the bike on my morning commute that when I got to the last light I almost made it through the cycle stopped - "without" my feet on the ground.
Edited by sgiacci 2011-05-26 1:08 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 492
Indianapolis, IN | team222 - 2011-05-25 11:10 PM hoosiervic - 2011-05-25 10:31 PM I don't know what it is exactly but sometimes as I said earlier I can just ease into stops, motor along in extremely slow traffic, and never feel like I'm having trouble balancing. Other times It just seems I can't get it right. Like you guys are saying, when it seems like I don't even have to try, that's when I feel at one with the bike. No doubt this is a developed skill and when you don't ride for a while it does seem to fade away. I guess the lesson is, ride as much as possible. Wow, what a pain in the a$$! ;-) You are not alone!!!!! I lost track of this......do you ride two up or solo most. I have far more issue with balancing slow stops two up than solo. The reason for this I think is the passenger unweights the front a bit sitting way back there and this is not as noticeable when riding solo. Again we worked out a deal on slow stops where she leans a wee bit to the left and I put my left foot also.....this pretty much makes the bike lean to the left on slow stops......but not always. Sometimes she will scoot but a bit on slow stops and this also helps. However....I am just like you in that I can go the entire day without an issue ....and then 5 slow stops in a row I screw up. Mike Mike, the only time I notice any issues with slow speed balance and stopping is while two up. About 70% of my miles are tandem. As I said sometimes it's like magic, the traffic slows for the light changing and inches forward until everybody stops. I can just ease along say for 20 or 30 feet without even trying it just works. Other times I am just executing a simple stop and the instant I need to put my feet on the ground it seems the bike just wants to dump to one side or the other. Honestly I believe I am causing this by turning the handlebars slightly without thinking about it, maybe cause I'm trying too hard to ease it to a balanced stop. Nevertheless when I get it right, which is the majority of the time it just feels so good I just want to do it again. By the way the vision is very top heavy with a passenger on board.
Edited by hoosiervic 2011-05-26 6:27 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 554
2 mi from Jim Beam n KY | I thought it was just me. You all are encouraging!! Thanks! Our heavy-weight tour bikes do require finesse. They are not like the 400lbs sport machines we used to ride. It's almost like learning to ride all over.
Maiden voyage with the SO: We left bro & sis inlaw's driveway, they were right behind us on their Goldwing. About a 1/2 mile we hit a red light. It was up hill, the road we were on laid to the right and we were going to turn right. We stopped and it was like some kind of evil force slammed the VV on the right side TPs. No harm, no foul. Just embarrassing. I'm not "THAT" rider anymore, but I have more to learn. Much more. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 119
| Hi Hoosiervic OK.......I am going out on a limb on this and tell you a couple of things. 1. What you told me below is exactly what I experienced.....exactly. 2. I am going to give you some of my thoughts and things I have done to solve this issue and the results. Q. What causes this issue? A. I dont know, but I do know I do not have the problem when I ride solo....ok a few times....but not as much. This tells me it is an issue most pronounced when riding two up. So I started trying to solve this by concentrating on when I ride two up with my wife. My wife is 5'9" and is a normal weight for her height....point of reference. I am 5'11" and weigh too much. Q. What have I tried and how did it turn out (repeat of my prior posts in some cases) A1. Coming to a stop sign or red light stop we first tired having my wife lean slightly to the left....this helped. Secondly, I had her lean slightly to the left and I also put my left leg/foot out about half way to stopping. This almost always had us coming to a nice stop and the bike leaning over to the left when we stopped due to what we did to make this happen vs not having a clue what direction it would go/lean. Finally, I asked her to do all this, .....plus scoot up a weeee bit at red light stops. Best combination, but this scooting up thingy was not something she liked or remembered......so we dropped that in stopping, but I found out if she does this when we are riding fast in the twisties this is a massive help with turnin. Q. What else if anything helped? A. I tried all combinations of applying the brakes coming to a gradual stops, but what worked best was slight front brakes......slowing down slowly and at the end do not brake suddenly to stop. There are alot of those that do not like using fronts in this situation so I will say this....there is no reason to not use just the fronts there is no road debris, not in the wet....you know 99.9% of the stop sign and red light stops we all make in good weather in the summer. This reallllly works great, but there is always a few times a day when doing this plus all the other stuff I stated above that it does not quite work. Ticks me off...but it is what it is. Q. What does not work? Again.......situation here is rding two up coming to a stop at a red light or stop sign.....great road conditions.....nothing more/nothing less. One thing that will always result in a bad outcome was not braking gradually....but carrying a bit too much speed and stopping suddenly to make up for this mistake. What the Vision would do was unpredictable. Then I would add to my mistake by putting my left foot down too early while the bike was still moving since I would misjudge when the bike would stop due to it going too fast for the other methods to come into play......so.....like a moron, I would put my left foot down, but the bike was still moving ever so slightly and this was the worst of all endings and a few times I felt sure the bike would fall over between when I picked my left foot up again, but before I could put it down when the bike actually stopped. Even fewer times my calf would get rammed by the passenger tip over protector....ouch. High Theory #34.4 1. I think somehow passengers unweigh the front of the Vision a bit. I sense a sort of vague feeling in the front riding two in stops at the same exact place riding double that are not there riding solo. I have had this with other bikes also.....ahhhhhhh....but they did not weigh 1200 pounds with both riders. 2. I also think these high tire pressures contribute to this....but do on the other hand do wonders once underway or pushing the Vision riding solo or two up. Bout it ......the point of this is to try to help out since we share the exact thing......not get into a big time discussion on bike riding techniques. What I have told you are us sharing the same observations and what I did to try to improve things. Best now Mike Personally, I think when you have a passenger weighting say 165 poundshoosiervic - 2011-05-26 7:24 PM Mike, the only time I notice any issues with slow speed balance and stopping is while two up. About 70% of my miles are tandem. As I said sometimes it's like magic, the traffic slows for the light changing and inches forward until everybody stops. I can just ease along say for 20 or 30 feet without even trying it just works. Other times I am just executing a simple stop and the instant I need to put my feet on the ground it seems the bike just wants to dump to one side or the other. Honestly I believe I am causing this by turning the handlebars slightly without thinking about it, maybe cause I'm trying too hard to ease it to a balanced stop. Nevertheless when I get it right, which is the majority of the time it just feels so good I just want to do it again. By the way the vision is very top heavy with a passenger on board.
Edited by team222 2011-05-26 9:17 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 554
2 mi from Jim Beam n KY | "Ride Like a Pro V" is a TREMENDOUS help, too! Nothing like slow speed skills!!!! |
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Tourer
Posts: 309
Vineland, NJ United States | I read all the responses and agree the best thing is the Ride Like a Pro series DVDs and than go practice the slow speed manuevers in a school parking lot. That will make a big difference. I've been riding since 1984 but only been riding the land yacht since 2008. I experienced some of same things and here is what helped me. My son is into weight training, he also rides, and he told me to do barbell squats (to strengthen my thighs), stiff-leg deadlifts (for lower back) and calf raises (to strengthen calves). I started doing all 3 exercises with light barbell weights twice a week and it made a big difference. It doesn't make you ride any better but it makes the bike feel a lot lighter when you get off center a little. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 965
New York State | I am harder on my Transmissions than I ever am on Brakes. I have a 2002 Jeep Wrangler over 100,000.miles so far on second set of brake pads I down shift and use the throttle to slow down . I like to go into open parking lots and drive my Vision in first with clutch throttle and rear brake and try slow speed manuvers. Alone it is easy, two up there is that noise from behind and the shifting of weight but it really helps to practice |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | I remind my wife all the the time that she challenges my riding skills. She thinks that I'm saying something negative so I asked her last night "do I ride like I'm challenged when you are riding?" She thought for a minute and then said "No!" I said "then you're doing good then." I can say a lot of things occurred with me on the Gold Wing, solo and two up that I didn't like. The Vision has never gave me any false sense of security, but has always been right where it is suppose to be. I just want to put a dolup of taking a MCSF riding course reminder in here. Every little bit helps and you are with folks that are in all various stages of learning. Each little nugget is very value when measuring against your life. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 119
| "the only time I notice any issues with slow speed balance and stopping is while two up." Can those that have the "Ride Like a Pro" video check next time you watch it for exactly/same situation as stated above and post it here for us all. I got the book but it never covered the exact/specific situation as stated above...... will go back and check it just in case. I do agree with getting some muscle tone back by exercising.....I have been doing this to prepare for the Continental Divide Dirt Bike Ride some budz and I will be doing in July and wowwwwwwwww does it feel great and yes side advantage does help when riding the Vision....and pretty much everything else in life. Thanks for all your replies and help Mike |
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Cruiser
Posts: 119
| Cap'n Nemo - 2011-05-27 7:59 AM I remind my wife all the the time that she challenges my riding skills. She thinks that I'm saying something negative so I asked her last night "do I ride like I'm challenged when you are riding?" She thought for a minute and then said "No!" I said "then you're doing good then." I can say a lot of things occurred with me on the Gold Wing, solo and two up that I didn't like. The Vision has never gave me any false sense of security, but has always been right where it is suppose to be. I just want to put a dolup of taking a MCSF riding course reminder in here. Every little bit helps and you are with folks that are in all various stages of learning. Each little nugget is very value when measuring against your life. Great point.....each of us has our own riding skill levels that bring different impressions to different people when they ride the same bike. Likewise as you stated, each bike has its own set of things it does well and also some things it does not do as good. Add these two variables together and it is hundreds/millions of outcomes. >>>>>> As far as bikes and this specific problem (the only time I notice any issues with slow speed balance and stopping is while two up)...... I can add the following observations: Coucours 14 ABS: had this problem, but not as pronounced as the Vision. At speed solo turnin good, two up turnin not as good....bit vague 1975 Goldwing (endurance racer econo handling mods): did not have this problem. At speed solo and two up turnin about the same Kawasaki ZRX1200: did not have this problem. At speed solo and two up turnin about the same 1980 Honda CBX (econo handling fixes): did not have this problem. At speed solo and two up turnin about the same 1989 Honda Pacific Coast: did not have this problem. At speed solo turn in a bit better than two up turnin 2002 Aprilia Caponord Adv/Tour (econo handling fixes): did not have this problem. At speed solo and two up turnin about the same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cap....you and others will note a couple of things.......I really never had any biggggg bike experience before the Vision anddddddddd alot of bikes I have owned were realllly old designs, but did not have the problem. Bout it for me but I would like to see others post their two up experiences as it relates to other bikes (the only time I notice any issues with slow speed balance and stopping is while two up)...... Mike |
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Tourer
Posts: 506
Woodland Hills, CA | Personally I don't really think about it. Somehow if you do it long enough, it just gets more comfortable. But there is a lot of really good advice here, much of which I practice. First and foremost, keep your eyes ahead of you.....WAY ahead of you. If you are focused on the car in front of you when you are slowing down, or if you are focused on the ground in front of you, you will always tend to be more unbalanced. Secondly, stay off the front brakes once you get really slow. There are some very skilled riders out there that can use the front brake with such finess that they never have a problem. I am not one of those riders. If you happen to grab the front brake just a bit too hard and the front wheel is turned even slightly, you will have a much greater problem trying to stay balanced.
Passengers can be unpredictable, no matter what you tell them. MY S.O. is really a great passenger. I sometimes don't even know she's there. All I told her (and what I tell all my passengers) is to do her best to remain in line with the bike at all times; don't lean, let me do that. If they need to move around, I ask that they do it when we are moving, and not slowing or stopped, especially without first telling me at least. Then its just a matter of spending some time with that person to understand their quirks when riding. Each passenger is different, and even though 90% of my riding is 2 up, it still takes me a few miles to get used to someone new, even if they are seasoned riders.
Finally, practice some of these things alone and in a safe place. Try looking far ahead when stopping, then try looking down in front of you and see the difference. The same is true with front wheel braking (although be very careful here not to apply too much front brake, especially when turning). I think you see that these things do in fact work, and it will help your confidence, which in the end will help you ride 2 up.
Ride safe and good luck.
The last thing I want to do is make my passengers feel like they
Personally, I always tell my passenger to try to remain reasonably |
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Cruiser
Posts: 119
| Wizard523 - 2011-05-27 3:50 PM First and foremost, keep your eyes ahead of you.....WAY ahead of you. If you are focused on the car in front of you when you are slowing down, or if you are focused on the ground in front of you, you will always tend to be more unbalanced. Secondly, stay off the front brakes once you get really slow. There are some very skilled riders out there that can use the front brake with such finess that they never have a problem. I am not one of those riders. >>>>snips/way2old<<<<< I agree with looking way ahead of you when riding or in a car.....but this generally not the situation or case when coming to a red light or stop sign where the stop is a very short and modest distance ahead. I find that using just the rear brake when coming to stop sign or red light far more difficult on the Vision than using the just the front brake gradually because the rear brake approach now has the right foot occupied while at the end of the stop the left is down ready for bike to lean that way when stopped.......so guess what can happen if the Vision for some reason leans to the right! In saying all this I still find that doing predictable slow speed stops on the Vision an issue at times......for those that this comes natural I admire you......for me it is not natural, but I will keep trying to do better and thanks for all your posts on this topic, Mike |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | Mike, all I can continue to say is keep practicing until it becomes natural. Paratrooper training takes the mind and makes things second natural because of the repetative training in actions and reaction. The only time I have laid a bike down I was at a slow hard lean turn and the tang on the center stand hit and push the tire out. I went over the right side, rotated my arms in from of me and scrapped up the back of my arms from elbow to for forearm. This is a trained reaction when doing a paratrooper landing fall. The natural reaction is to put your palms down to catch yourself, and in the scheme of things I'm glad I did the trained manuever. Okay, to my point, go to a parking lot and practice, practice, practice; if you don't, well you figure that out. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 119
| Cap'n Nemo - 2011-05-30 8:18 AM Mike, all I can continue to say is keep practicing until it becomes natural. Paratrooper training takes the mind and makes things second natural because of the repetative training in actions and reaction. The only time I have laid a bike down I was at a slow hard lean turn and the tang on the center stand hit and push the tire out. I went over the right side, rotated my arms in from of me and scrapped up the back of my arms from elbow to for forearm. This is a trained reaction when doing a paratrooper landing fall. The natural reaction is to put your palms down to catch yourself, and in the scheme of things I'm glad I did the trained manuever. Okay, to my point, go to a parking lot and practice, practice, practice; if you don't, well you figure that out. Thank you.......count on me to keep trying We do go over to a business park after hours and practice different things that people here have said every so often (not often enough obviously) and try some things I thought that might help .....but in the end after 8k miles on the Vision....there still are those times when coming up to a red light or stop sign that it does not work. We will continue to think about improving, practice and try things people say here to cure issues like this.......what a great service this site provides and amazing all the help and knowledge everyone here provide. Thank you again. Best to you and everyone here Mike
Edited by team222 2011-05-30 9:21 AM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 10
| One of the most important pieces of equipment is
your boots, especially the sole of the boot. If you have a
logger sole or something like it instead of a slick
sole like many of the harness style boots, your footing will be allot
more stable especially you have a little sand or small gravel
under foot. My riding boot of choice is the Chippewa 9 Inch
Waterproof Boot # 25411.
+'s 1. Waterproof - it works
2. Very good ankle support when you need it the most
3. Sole?s with excellent traction
4. Most of all Made In The USA
Points to remember to keep your bike upright at a stop and take off
1. Come to a stop slowly
2. Timing, plant your feet at the moment the bike comes to a stop
3. Insure your wheel is straight when you come to a stop
4. Be sure your bike is in 1st gear before you take off
5. Instruct your passenger to remain still and sitting upright upon a stop and take off
6. Wear boots with good support and traction
My 2 cents
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Iron Butt
Posts: 732
Western WA | Great advice on here Mike and nothing that I can add about practice or maneuvering that hasn't already been covered.
I don't know how old your bike is, (I probably missed it in the thread), but if you've got a few miles on her then you might want to take a look at your brakes.
Last year I began to have more and more trouble when stopping. A little wobble and lean at the very end. Of course I accused my wife of 'farting around back there'. That didn't go well. I would not recommend it.
It became quite an issue until I realized that I was compensating for the brakes which would then 'grab' at the end of the stop throwing the balance.
I changed the brakes and the problem was solved. I have no idea if that's your issue but thought I would throw it out there. |
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