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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| I thought I would pass this along just for interest. When I bought my '10 bike I wanted it to be all black so the dealer (Cycle Dragon) was considerate enough to take two bikes, a Premium and a 8 Ball, and switch parts around in order to make an all black Premium. One of the things I really liked about that bike in particular was the plush ride. You could aim it at pretty much any pothole or whatever and it would just roll right over it. A really great ride!
When the '11s came out with the new trans I ended up selling my '10 to a buddy who had his eye on it since I got it and took delivery of a new '11. The very first thing I noticed was that it didn't ride anywhere near as plush as the '10 did and interestingly, it didn't seem to turn in as well as the '10 either. The dealer did some checking for me in order to figure out what the factory might have changed but they swore they didn't change anything.
Fast forward to yesterday and 2500 miles later. I had the chance to ride the '10 on Sunday and was now back on trying to figure out what I had to do to get the ride of the '10 back. I pulled the forks to see if either of them might be binding but they seemed exactly the same. I was getting ready to put it back together and it finally dawned on me. When the tech switched all the parts over he also switched the forks since the lowers on the 8 Ball were black. I went to the fiche online and sure enough they use different springs, different cartridges and different spacers. So this morning I went over to the dealer who happen to have an 8 Ball sitting on the floor so I sat on it and gave it a bounce. Sure enough, just like my black bike! It turns out that not only is the 8 Ball forks sprung a bit lower to compensate for the lower rear shock but the springs are also softer and the dampening is probably less restrictive. If you haven't ridden an 8 Ball take it from me, the difference in ride is substantial. It turns out the tech had no idea the forks were shorter or plusher for that matter. As a side benefit, the shorter front end changes the geometry so that the turn in is improved as well.
I ordered the parts and will now make the new bike ride as well as the '10 did. I'm pretty excited about this as the ride was the only thing I really missed and its been bugging the hell out of me.
Marc |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Nice article.....let us know how it works out. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 741
Central New York | Fit and finish wise, are the forks a straight up swap? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| Yes, they are. The only difference is that the 8 Ball lowers are black. Getting the ride of the 8 Ball only consists of replacing the spring, cartridge and the spacer that goes between the spring and the cap. Everything else including the tubes themselves are the same.
Marc |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| I finished the fork components swap today. I swapped out the fork cartridge, spring and spacer from the stock Tour parts to those from an 8 Ball. Actually I had to make the spacers since Victory was out of stock on them. The OE spacers are made out of plastic which I duplicated in aluminum. The new spring is shorter. The cartridge is the same length but the dampening is lighter. The difference is pretty amazing. The bike sits a bit lower so my feet are flat now. The ride is way better. Bumps that disturbed the bike before are just soaked up. Really, really nice. The turn-in is also improved which helps cornering. The cost of the parts was $320.00 and the dealer charged one hour to swap the parts out including new oil. I pulled the forks which took all of 30 minutes and about the same to put them back. If anyone has any questions please let me know.
Part#s
Spring 7043627
Cartridge 5137274
Spacer 7556550
One quart of Victory Fork oil
Marc |
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | Is the V8 the same setup as the 2010 VNess has? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 226
on the edge of Los Angeles | Great Information about the swap out.
My take is the tour is designed for 2 riders and the 8 ball is better fitted for 1 rider
With out changing springs and spacers one might be able to obtain a softer dampening with 5 wt oil. I used 10 wt and its pretty close to the stock oil from my perspective.
Move the fork tubes up a bit in the clamps and it will change geometry that may help in the "turn in"
Easier yet add some air to the rear shock that will also change the geometry of the front end a bit and it too may help.
Simple things that can be done may surprise you ..
Its all give and take.
Your results may vary.
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Cruiser
Posts: 119
| marcparnes - 2010-11-30 9:49 PM snip/m: It turns out that not only is the 8 Ball forks sprung a bit lower to compensate for the lower rear shock but the springs are also softer and the dampening is probably less restrictive. If you haven't ridden an 8 Ball take it from me, the difference in ride is substantial. It turns out the tech had no idea the forks were shorter or plusher for that matter. As a side benefit, the shorter front end changes the geometry so that the turn in is improved as well. I ordered the parts and will now make the new bike ride as well as the '10 did. I'm pretty excited about this as the ride was the only thing I really missed and its been bugging the hell out of me. Marc Hi Marc The econo way for better turnin on most bikes is to lower the front by raising the forks. It only takes a few minutes. This worked out great on all the bikes I tried it on in the past. I would recommend raising the forks in 3-4mm increments max and test riding it for a couple of weeks......this is not a 1/2" to 3/4" deal right off. I think the Vision has really great turnin as is from the factory, but might give it a go at 3mm. Some of the bikes I have done this with great success: 1975 Goldwing RR - 9mm; 1980 CBX - 5mm; 2002 Aprilia Caponord Adv Tour - 18mm Mike
Edited by team222 2010-12-11 8:15 AM
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Cruiser
Posts: 244
Tucson , AZ | Marc
great article.. i never knew that victory lowered the front springs in the 8 ball. I was told just the rear and the seat were shortened. So the stock spings in the 11" are longer, but have a tigher wind... so the bike rides stiffer and does not lower the bike as much. The10'( 8 ball) springs are shorter
and have a nicer ride?? correct.. is there much difference in the cartridges?? or spacers?? thanks for the info.
we offer a spacer that will allow you to lower your bike another 1".... just letting you know. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| hmd520 - 2010-12-11 6:00 AM
Marc
great article.. i never knew that victory lowered the front springs in the 8 ball. I was told just the rear and the seat were shortened. So the stock spings in the 11" are longer, but have a tigher wind... so the bike rides stiffer and does not lower the bike as much. The10'( 8 ball) springs are shorter
and have a nicer ride?? correct.. is there much difference in the cartridges?? or spacers?? thanks for the info.
we offer a spacer that will allow you to lower your bike another 1".... just letting you know.
The springs on the Tour are much longer and have a lot more preload. As I wrote, the cartridges are sized the same but with different valving resulting in less dampening. The Tour doesn't have a spacer so to speak, just a washer between the spring and the cap. The 8 Ball has a 2.5" long hollow complex shaped spacer made out of what looks to be PVC plastic which I copied in aluminum. The ride is substantially improved. The parts are good for the '10 and '11 years with 46mm KYB forks.
Marc |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| team222 - 2010-12-11 5:14 AM
Hi Marc The econo way?for better turnin on most bikes is to lower the front by raising the forks.? It only takes a few minutes.? This worked out great on all the bikes I tried it on in the past.? I would recommend raising the forks in 3-4mm increments max?and test riding it for a couple of weeks......this is not a 1/2" to 3/4" deal right off.? I think the Vision has really great turnin as is from the factory, but might give it a go at 3mm. Some of the bikes?I have done this with great success:? 1975 Goldwing RR?- 9mm; 1980 CBX - 5mm; 2002 Aprilia Caponord Adv Tour - 18mm Mike
Hey Mike,
3 mm might be all you can get before the fork hits the bottom of the handlebar on the '11. My forks are now about an inch (25 mm) lower.
Marc |
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Cruiser
Posts: 119
| Hey Mike, 3 mm might be all you can get before the fork hits the bottom of the handlebar on the '11. My forks are now about an inch (25 mm) lower. Marc Hi Marc You sure got me there..... I never checked the space for the Vision between the handlebar and top of the fork because I was mostly happy the way it was related to turnin and I did not want to give up any ground clearance I think this all comes down to what the priority each of us has, is it turnin or lowering the Vision. Better Turnin: If getting better turnin is the goal then lowering the front by raising the forks works great.....at least for me for 6 or so bikes I did this on over the years. However as you pointed out, the space between the bottom of the handlebars and the fork caps is the limiting factor ....sort of. I had this with the Aprilia and a $35 dollar handlebar riser kit did the job and gave me alot more space between handlebars and fork cap. I needed it as this bike needed front lowered 18mm to do get there, but after all it was an Adv Tour bike. Lowering the Bike: If this is the goal then it is a somewhat different matter and I do not have any advise to offer other than if lowering the front by raising the forks in the tubes works and gets you there......great. Nomatter what, again in my view, for turnin I would much rather just lower the front to get there rather than put in shorter or softer front fork springs as the direct path to get there. This is hard to type and make myself clear ......sorry. Best Mike
Edited by team222 2010-12-11 10:43 AM
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Front Suspension Story