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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Has anyone combined the Power Commander auto tune with a Lloyds reflashed ECM ?? Seems you would have the best of both worlds, full fuel adjustability for initial set up, then auto tuning for the fine adjustments with constant exhaust gas readings AND a 6400 rpm redline.
Any ideas on this ?? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| I don't think it would make any difference to the mixture. Over time the Autotune will rewrite the map to achieve the a/f ratios set by the a/f table. The map is just a starting point but ultimately it won't make any difference to the final settings. Of course you could limit how far the Autotune trims as a percentage. The default is 20% change which you could lower but that kind of defeats the reason for having Autotune in the first place.
Marc |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | I'm pretty positive you can get the 6400 RPM with just the Autotune, no need for Lloydz ECM. |
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Tourer
Posts: 311
Atlanta Area | The PC-V will give u an rpm bump to 6000... That's it.... |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Now the question: Are they compatible ?? I've read that the PC V will tune to almost perfection and eliminates almost all popping, that and the 6400 rpm rev limit with the Lloyds ECM would be killer................... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | 1atom12 - 2010-10-31 2:30 PM The PC-V will give u an rpm bump to 6000... That's it.... On the Power Commander site there is a release type form you can print and fill out and sign and fax to them and they will give you a code that you put in the unit and you can up the RPM another 400-500 over stock.
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Lotzafun: Are you saying there is a upgrade to the PC V that allows 6400- 6500 rpm ?? I've not heard that before................ |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | XRsteve - 2010-11-01 1:20 PM Lotzafun: Are you saying there is a upgrade to the PC V that allows 6400- 6500 rpm ?? I've not heard that before................ Yep...its part of the Rev-Extend feature. A link to the form.... http://www.powercommander.com/downloads/GeneralDocuments/FormWaiver...
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Thank you alot, that will save money AND do the job.................... |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | One more question to get this all straight: If I get the PC V with auotune and the rev extend down load I'll have 6500 rpm in all gears AND no top speed limiter. If I have all this power I'd like to have a 135mph dresser !! (Happy, Happy) |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 23
Stony Mountain, MB Canada | I already had the Stage 1 Level 1 Exhaust with the Gunner Tips and the extra Air Filter in place of the block off plate on the intake.
At the Spirit Lake Rally this year I had Lloydz do a set of Cams for me and put the Power Commander V on my bike, I didn't get the auto tune as I have heard rumours that it doesn't work as good as what it should on a Victory and I got Lloydz to put a flashed ECM on it to give me 6400 RPM Rev Limiter and no speed limiter. It all works great, I get better fuel milage than before and 114.08 HP. & 112.44 ft. lbs. of Torque. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | So does anyone on site have the PC V with autotune and 6400 rpm rev extend in ALL gears............... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 60
Vancouver, B.C. & La Quinta, CA | I have the ECM from Lloyd with his fuel controller. Running 116.2 HP and 115 ft/lbs. Will be installing the PCV shortly for what I'm told by my tuner shop another couple of horse hopefully. Don't want the auto tune. Once properly dyno'd no need. The thing the ECM gives over and above rev limit extension is critical timing change for more power and much better ridability. It is the cheapest hp addition.
Good luck with your power tuning. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Dal, will it go 135 mph ?? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | Ok....I've got the PCV with Autotune and I have yet to find a rev limit. And I've tried more than a few times.
The Rev-Extend is a feature of the PCV. So Autotune is not required.
Due to a couple of factors I have yet find out the absolute top speed, however I've had it well over 120 a couple of times.
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Lotzafun : when you write "I have yet to find a rev limit" Do you mean you have reved it passed the 6000 you can see on the tach ?? Thanks... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | XRsteve - 2010-11-07 8:12 AM Lotzafun : when you write "I have yet to find a rev limit" Do you mean you have reved it passed the 6000 you can see on the tach ?? Thanks... Yep...have buried the tach more than a few times. Once it starts scratching the 6g-plus mark the motor starts howling a decent howl but you can tell she ain't got much left though so you aren't going to want to spend a lot of time in this area. With the PCV....if there is a rev limit.....I can't find it.
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Sounds good.............. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | DAL - 2010-11-06 2:17 AM
I have the ECM from Lloyd with his fuel controller. Running 116.2 HP and 115 ft/lbs. Will be installing the PCV shortly for what I'm told by my tuner shop another couple of horse hopefully. Don't want the auto tune. Once properly dyno'd no need. The thing the ECM gives over and above rev limit extension is critical timing change for more power and much better ridability. It is the cheapest hp addition.
Good luck with your power tuning.
If you are going PCV then it is a waste to not go with Auto Tune. No tuner is going to get you as good as the AT feature during normal riding |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Kevin have you had any experience with the PC V auto tune and it's over rev capability ?? I had not read before this post of an additional down load to the PC that allows 6400 rpm in all gears. ( I guess that would override the speed limiter in 6th ?? ) The only one I've read about before that does all this is the Lloyds reworked ECM.... |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Next Monday 11/15/10 I'm going to a Power Commander seminar put on by DynoJet in Atlanta, it's sponsored by Drag Specialties, I'll get some answers about the PC V for our Visions ............................ |
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Tourer
Posts: 366
Albuquerque, NM | Some actual part numbers for the PCV and the Autotune module for the '08, '09, etc... if different. A discount if purchased together would be nice. I'm sure they'd sell alot more for Vics....thanks |
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Tourer
Posts: 348
Sturbridge, Mass | So, if I read this- if one wants to get the best bang for the buck without doing the cams on an 09 vision,
Add;
Lloyds Air intake Plate
IAC valve
PC-V or VFC- 3 ?
No need for the ECM re-flash if getting the rev limit feature on the PC-V ?
What would one expect in performance change with these mods ?
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | I'll find this all out on Monday................. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 669
Peachtree City, GA | DAL - 2010-11-06 2:17 AM
I have the ECM from Lloyd with his fuel controller. Running 116.2 HP and 115 ft/lbs. Will be installing the PCV shortly for what I'm told by my tuner shop another couple of horse hopefully. Don't want the auto tune. Once properly dyno'd no need. The thing the ECM gives over and above rev limit extension is critical timing change for more power and much better ridability. It is the cheapest hp addition.
Good luck with your power tuning.
The PC-V with the Auto Tune also lets you adjust the timing... There is a table for it and it works nicely in all gears...
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Iron Butt
Posts: 669
Peachtree City, GA | XRsteve - 2010-11-10 2:16 PM
Next Monday 11/15/10 I'm going to a Power Commander seminar put on by DynoJet in Atlanta, it's sponsored by Drag Specialties, I'll get some answers about the PC V for our Visions ............................
Come on Steve - you need to share some details... Let me know what's up. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Heading to the PC V seminar in the morning. Should have good info by tomorrow night. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 669
Peachtree City, GA | I had my bike dyno'ed over the weekend down in Gainsville... Pretty happy with the numbers...
VM1 cams, Stage 1 flash, Stage 1 Level 1 pipes, Intake plate and VFC-III.... 111 Hp and 114 Torque...
Still waiting on the reprogrammed ECM...
Now to decide if I want to go back to the PC-V and AutoTune setup or sell it??? |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | i wonder if they will just give a blanket asnwer since they probably dont work with lloyds and therefor might not know the first thing about his flash..
Edited by Arkainzeye 2010-11-15 3:47 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | The Power commander represenative told me Yes there is a seperate down load for rev extensions up to 6500rpm. You do have to sign a down loadable waiver and fax it back to DynoJet. This does work in conjunction with or without the Auto tune. You can turn the autotune on and off at will. The one think he was not so sure about was defeating the 6th gear speed limiter. |
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Tourer
Posts: 348
Sturbridge, Mass | XRsteve - 2010-11-11 12:34 PM
I'll find this all out on Monday.................
Any news ? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 60
Vancouver, B.C. & La Quinta, CA | Webhair - 2010-11-11 9:58 AM DAL - 2010-11-06 2:17 AM I have the ECM from Lloyd with his fuel controller. Running 116.2 HP and 115 ft/lbs. Will be installing the PCV shortly for what I'm told by my tuner shop another couple of horse hopefully. Don't want the auto tune. Once properly dyno'd no need. The thing the ECM gives over and above rev limit extension is critical timing change for more power and much better ridability. It is the cheapest hp addition. Good luck with your power tuning. The PC-V with the Auto Tune also lets you adjust the timing... There is a table for it and it works nicely in all gears...
Quite right. We tried altering the timing with the PCV and found that the tricked ECM from Lloydz could not be beat for power and torque on my bike. In the end, we ended up with 119 HP and 116+ torque with a remarkably smoothly running and responsive motor without flat spots, dreaded pops, or surging. I finally have this bike where I want it, yahoo!!!!!
Cheers |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Thank's DAL, I thought that might be the way to go. Reflashed Lloydz ECM that'll give you 6400rpm and kill the top speed limiter AND the PC V for fuel tuning the ability to add and subtract fuel on the graph. Auto tune? If you want it, that sounds good................. |
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Tourer
Posts: 348
Sturbridge, Mass | OK- for the non tech folks (me), it sounds like the best bang for the buck (without doing cams ) is;
Stage 1
Reflash ECM- Lloydz
IAC valve- Lloydz
Air Intake Plate- Lloydz
PC-V (Instead of VFC-III)
Dynotuned
Am I missing anything ?
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | hottierod - 2010-11-29 9:52 AM
OK- for the non tech folks (me), it sounds like the best bang for the buck (without doing cams ) is;
Stage 1
Reflash ECM- Lloydz
IAC valve- Lloydz
Air Intake Plate- Lloydz
PC-V (Instead of VFC-III)
Dynotuned
Am I missing anything ?
I am thinking of doing the same to my Vision (without the cams). I know that it will run smoother.
I already have the S1L2 pipes.
So I am thinking of buying:
Reflash ECM- Lloydz
IAC valve- Lloydz
Air Intake Plate- Lloydz
PC-V (Instead of VFC-III)
My question is what would the HP and Torque numbers be without the cams?
I know it will not make the numbers of the Lloyd Cam'ed engines but I do not know what it would be possible to achieve without cams.
Ride Safe |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | I heard a similar setup with the ability to rev beyond 6200 rpms made 98RWHP at a local Victory shop. I did not see the graph............ |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | With out the cams, but having fuel controller and air filters and tuned by Lloyd. My motor was pretty much giving up at 4800 rpm as far as pulling more power, power was dropping at the 5500 rpm limit. With the stock cam profile, don't know how you can get more air into the motor, don't see how your going to get much more power going up to 6400 rpm. But then maybe something magical happens!!  |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | I understand the ECM is really only for the cam'ed engines. I already have the Stock 2008 106 with S1L2 Exhaust plus S1L2 map and if I get the following:
IAC valve- Lloydz
Air Intake Plate- Lloydz
PC-V (Instead of VFC-III)
Other then a smoother response from the throttle and less backfires, which are not really a problem for me, what kind of difference would it make for me.
I think that I read that Air Intake Plate is good for 3 to 5 HP....are these numbers correct? Will I get any other gains from the PC-V in HP and Torque?
Ride Safe |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | Paul,
The intake plate and fuel controller made a big difference. And the cost is reasonable for the hp gains. With both of those added you will be 8 to 10 hp. Torque will be around 105, at least that's what mine did. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | William,
Are you running the IAC valve now and did you use it before the cam upgrade? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | Paul, I have it on the bike, Lloyd put it on when the cams were installed. |
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Tourer
Posts: 348
Sturbridge, Mass | So, it sounds that you do not need the ECM reflashed if you are not doing cams ?
You can do the S1L1, PCV, IAV, & Intake plate to obtain some modest gains without a huge investment ?
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Jeff,
That is what I was thinking about doing with some Christmas + Birthday money. I would gain some HP and Torque plus smooth out a smooth running engine. What I really like is that I could do it all myself....at least I think I can.
Ride Safe |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Now from everything I've learned on this site and at the dyno jet semminar I'll go with a Lloyds re flashed ECM, Cam and intake plate and a PC V fuel controller with auto tune. Should make a smooth running finely tuned 135 mph Vision............ |
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Tourer
Posts: 348
Sturbridge, Mass | XRsteve - 2010-11-30 10:46 PM
Now from everything I've learned on this site and at the dyno jet semminar I'll go with a Lloyds re flashed ECM, Cam and intake plate and a PC V fuel controller with auto tune. Should make a smooth running finely tuned 135 mph Vision............
OK- but it still sounds like one would not need to do the ECM reflash if they are not doing the cams.
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Yeah probably not except that you will hit the 5500 rpm rev limiter quicker and more often.................. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 669
Peachtree City, GA | But, if you installed the PC-V then you could enable the Rev-Extend and take it up to 6000 RPM. |
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Tourer
Posts: 348
Sturbridge, Mass | I have an email into Bri from last week as well-awaiting reply.
Does anybody know what Lloyd changes in his ECU reflash ?
Is is RPM only ? or is it fuel and timing ?
I ask becasue if it is fuel only, why get a fuel controller as well ? I believe Lloyds adds fuel only, does not remove.
And the new cams, I imagine they are Vision specific ?
Thanks
Jeff
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Cruiser
Posts: 156
dinwiddie, va | I have the PCV with auto tune and the rev extend. Deffinitely revs higher. I tlets you squeeze out some more of the horsepower that you cant tap into with stock set RPM's. I havent totally wore it out yet. Haven't really had alot of seat time with it. But I surely like it a whole lot better then other tuners and power commanders I have installed in the past. I have installed many power commanders, lloyds tuners, ness tuners, vance and hines tuners. All of them. This is by far the easiest and most effective. I had the llyds tuner on my bike before I installed the auto tune. Not a ridiculous power increase, but fuel mileage is a little better and no popping whatsoever. Go with the autotune. If anyone is looking for one, let me know. I can get you a little discount on one. |
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Best of both worlds combination ??