|
|
Tourer
Posts: 482
Beer Collins, Colorado (there is no fort) | I've been putting magnets on my filters for a long time,along with a magnetic drain plugs, and the Vision is no exception. Did an oil change this evening(11,300miles) and just for grins cut the filter open to see if the magnets were catching anything-they were. the drain plug had it's usual coating of magnetic mud-very light nothing unusual. The filter also mirrored the magnets after rinsing with gas-see pics. It certainly doesn't do any harm and I'll continue the practice-Brian
some of the big metal particles are from hacking the filter open
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i44/BRIANnCOLO/P1010042-2.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i44/BRIANnCOLO/P1010043-1.jpg
Edited by ByteN2it 2010-10-14 8:29 PM
|
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 388
Salisbury, NC | If you were to use a pipe cutter, you will not have all the shavings from the hacksaw. Just what I used the couple of times that I have opened the filter to see what they looked like inside. ET |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 329
scotts valley, California | Just out of curiosity, does the oil flow through the filter from the outside toward the center or visa versa? |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 208
Wichita, Kansas | These are the ones I got. Pretty cheap and unbelievably strong. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 104
Plainfield Illinois | Oil flows into the filter through the outside holes and returns back through the center hole. Any particles that are big enough to see are certainly trapped in the filter media if the magnets were absent. This is true, else all the folks that didn't use magnets would have short lived engines. The particles in the images are big enough to trash bearings and score cylinders if they made it through the filter media. That being said, if it gives peace of mind to stick magnets on the filter, by all means do it. williebyte |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 329
scotts valley, California | Hey, Willie... It sounds like we are on the same page re the magnets. I suppose it is possible that the magnet could pick up some minute particles that the filter might miss, however I'm thinking that filter manufacturers would put magnets on their production filters if they thought there would be a significant benefit. My magnet is on my pan guard to activate traffic signal loops. |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 482
Beer Collins, Colorado (there is no fort) | I also have a magnetic oil plug in the Vision and it usually has a bit of metallic mud on it at oil change inspection-so there's still some things circulating that may take several passes through the filter that it's catching- like I said it certainly can't do any harm and I like to see what's getting caught by them. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 208
Wichita, Kansas | I apparaently didn't set the link right and didn't notice it. I got these. Cheap and unbelievable strong for their size. http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/MAG-80/NEODYMIUM-35-MAGNET-0.375-DIA.-X-0.2//1.html |
|
| |
|
Puddle Jumper
Posts: 14
UK | If you have a scrap computer hard disk the magnets inside it that control the read/write arm are extremely strong (also neodymium).
tom |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 329
scotts valley, California | Welcome to the forum, Stevego2. The clear definitive answer to your question about whether the magnets work is: maybe a little. The info above indicates that they do catch some metalic material from the oil, so it might pay to put a little magnet on your oil filter. The jury is still out on the traffic loop issue. I put a powerful rare earth magnet on my belly pan, powerful enough to draw blood if you get a little fold of skin between two of them, and it seemes to help activate traffic signals, but not 100%. I'm thinking that the width of the magnetic field may be a significant factor for activating the loops, making four wheeled vehicles more effective that two. I would like to hear more on the subject. |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 785
Mt. Vernon, WASH. | It's standard practice on light aircraft to cut open the filter when you're doing an oil change (usually @ every 50 hours of operation) to do a visual for chunks like chrome, bronze, copper, etc. which, along with an oil analysis program will give you a good idea of how many hours you have left on an engine (rule of thumb on one is around 2500 hours, and upwards of $50K + to overhaul one). If you are concerned about the engine 'making metal' it had better make some, just like you should be suspicious of any engine that doesn't use any oil. Want an example of normal amounts of sump metal? Go do an oil change on an air cooled VW BEETLE for those of you who forgot what looks shocking but is perfectly normal levels of metal.
Use magnets if it makes you sleep better @ night, but I put magnets in the same category as the old toilet paper after market oil filters sold years ago by FRANZ. Stay on a regular schedule for changes and don't let the dealers service department sell you anything 'extra' while your bike is being serviced, the 'extra' are simply there to pad the dealers profits as part of whats described as a 'package' when you buy a new car (undercoating, paint protective coverings, etc.) you really are wasting money having the air inspected in your tires or other strange sounding, redundant things on a very long list presented by the service writer, any questions or disagreements? Just hold up your owners manual open to the applicable page and ask 'isn't what the manufacturer recommends all that's needed?' If it ain't on the factory recommended list in the manual for the interval involved, it's just 'mo dough' in the dealers pocket. And as we all know, if you want to rob people legally, throw your gun in the river and open a motorcycle (or marine engine) shop, plus you get to charge sales tax too! |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 329
scotts valley, California | I went to Mt. Vernon High School for three weeks in the fall of 1958, then they threw me out. I graduated from Sedro Wooley High School in 1959. They LIKE rebels there!
Anyway, don't you charge sales tax on money you receive in exchange for not shooting some one?
*******************
I would like to hear from someone in the know about the traffic signal activator loop...... anyone? |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 785
Mt. Vernon, WASH. | Blue Sky Guy,
You have to be very careful who you talk to in Sedro Wolley. The guy @ the counter in DENNYS might be making perfect sense and have logical, simple. easy solutions to ever problem you can name, he's lucid, intelligent, clever, funny, and will usually go along quietly when the guys from Western State Mental hospital just up the street show up to collect him. On the other hand, he could be running for elected office, and we already have enough mental misfits in that job!
Most loop activators either won't read the 'mass' of a motorcycle (not enough metal mass) and not trip, or they are set so far back from where you'd normally stop @ a light that if it doesn't continuously 'read' the metal mass by stopping over it, it 'forgets' about you and won't change until another vehicle either pulls up behind you, or stops across the intersection. I had one that frustrated me every day going home because I usually was the only vehicle @ the cross light on a major street. I called the city Engineering Dept. and they came out and reset the loop for sensitivity using one of their guys on a HONDA 500! works good, last long time-
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 4278
| I haven't heard FRANZ oil filter mentioned in forty years. WOW
You should go get your oil analyzed to see what condition its in just to see if magnets help. Early days can had them been then thats gone by the way with better oil filters.
There was a company selling a magnet bar for motorcycle to help trip lights but there gone I believe. I think it was like the old days when they said put cow magnets on your fuel line for better mileage. Yes farmers put magnets in cows at one point in time. |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 785
Mt. Vernon, WASH. | Aluminum, Copper, bronze and bearing antimony are amonst the metals that ARE NOT magnetic so you aren't getting a true story by using magnets. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 88
Nova Scotia , Canada | We have to remember how an oil filter works; the oil enters from the outside and travels around the outer shell to the inside of the filter through the filtering media. The filtering media will stop any particles larger than 4 or 5 micron, smaller particles pass through the filter. The filtered oil is channelled throughout the engine through the oil galleries. If the filter gets plugged with contamination, the bypass valve will open allowing the oil from the sump to bypass the plugged filter, this is done so that the engine is not starved of oil if for some reason the filter plugs with debris; the down side to this is that you are pumping unfiltered oil through the engine. Will a magnet pick up the particles of steel which are small enough to pass through the filtering media (less than 3 or 4 micron)? I would think that they would. In my opinion copper, aluminium or brass are less harmful to the engine, due to their softness and are less likely to score anything they may come in contact with. The filter should capture the larger than 4 micron, non metallic particles in the oil.
Don
|
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 329
scotts valley, California | <p>Have you ever butchered a cow with a magnet in its first stomach? There are usually little pieces of bailing wire clinging to it and sometimes a fence staple or two. The magnets can be retrieved, cleaned up and used again. I had one of these on my Harley, but it was still a Harley. As I said earlier, whatwith the cost of magnets being so little, surely oil filter manufacturers would include a magnet if their engineers thought it would do any good. How many oil filter manufacturers are there? How many sharp engineers work for them? How many include a magnet? But, like the man says, if you feel good about it... OK, yes, I am from Sedro Woolley.</p><p> </p>
Edited by Blue Sky Guy 2011-03-18 12:24 AM
|
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 277
Apopka, FL | http://www.motorcycle.com/products/kp-engineerings-reusable-oil-filter-71983.html I use one of these I purchased from CycleOps, aka: Will Molino. Check their description out on Motorcycle.com
Edited by DrDecay 2011-03-18 9:16 PM
(K&P Filter.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
 K&P Filter.jpg (19KB - 1 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 329
scotts valley, California | Thanks, Doctor, this is evidence conclusive that at least one filter engineer believes that a magnet helps do the job. All in all, I was so impressed with the article that I think I will buy one for my Keller. What is the recommended cleaning procedure?
Do you happen to be privy to any special knowledge about traffic signal activation loops? |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 277
Apopka, FL | Doesn't seem to help with traffic lights Guy. Sorry. Does add to the coolness factor however!
As far as cleaning goes, you can use mineral spirits & compressed air, carburetor cleaner, alcohol, Dawn (let dry overnight on that one after rinsing however), almost anything what will "degrease".
Edited by DrDecay 2011-03-19 5:43 PM
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | This deserves a poem:
Magnets on an Oil Filter
Magnets on an Oil Filter
To find what is out of kilter
Though it be big or small
Of iron or steel, will catch them all
While I consentrate on the cement
The little magnet will lament
Of all the little things that are gritty
That would make my motor a little....messed up.
Thank goodness for magnets on a oil filter 
|
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 785
Mt. Vernon, WASH. | 1 micron = .000000001 in diameter, it takes 25400 microns to make an inch, the averge oil filter will handle particles to about 5-8 microns in whats refered to 'single pass filtration tests' so you might as well put a magnet between your butt cheeks before you ride for all the good they do.
The reason you put them in cows is so they don't perforate a gut by swallowing wire, staples nails, etc. But if putting one on your oil filter makes you all warm and fuzzy, by all means drive on, I'll leave the old wives tales alone.
The reason an aircraft mechanic cuts open a filter is to see what sort of metal the engine IS making (and EVERY engine makes some) so you can perhaps get the engine to overhaul before it fails if it's making bearing metal, and the only place you SHOULD find small traces of metal would be in the outer shell, not in the inner side of the filter media where the oil returns to the oil pump via suction and then to the bearing surfaces again.
Many years ago WIX took apart an oil filter on one of Richard Pettys cars when they sponsoredhim, they found bearing parts, big hunks of metal, pushrod tips, and everything except coffee grounds, all in the canister and none of it inside the filter media paper. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | you are in deed sinister, peeing in people's cornflakes and popping their balloon. Hundred of magnet users are trying to think of a rebutal to your brazen announcement that there is no Santa Clause. Perforate your cow on that on... |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 785
Mt. Vernon, WASH. | Sorry to burst some bubbles. I also have it on good authority that there is no Easter Bunny, you should be careful not to bend over around the tooth fairy, Willy Wonka is just a movie, and the first three STAR WARS movies are just souped up Westerns. But, as I said if it makes you warm and fuzzy and lets you sleep better, then by all means...............and, I don't have a cow, I divorced her. Just the hard realities of working in an industry for 40+ years where your word IS everyone involveds bond, I screw up, lots of people you'll never meet die in a corn field that's why I like to separate the wheat from the chaff.
You can't scare me, I've been married and divorced twice, spent 40+ years beating on airplanes, and raised two ornery kids.
THE most effective for internal combustion engines (and costliest too) type of filter is a CUNO. they were used on old multi thousand cubic inch radial aircraft engines, they are made up of dozens of plates and screens, and were removed and cleaned abou every 50 hours by running a piece of safety wire through the center BEFORE you unscrewed the outer shell to solvent bath it, if you took it completely apart you'd never get it back together in the right order and orientation. they are designed to have the center bolt turned about one revolution every 10 or so hours of operation to work the crud and cabon to the outer side of the canister, after you open the cowling from a ladder, in the horizontal rain, in Detroit, in January, on third shift, at the gate-AHH! the romance of aviation!! |
|
| |