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Goldsboro, NC | I was stuck at a particularly long traffic light behind another motorcycle rider. It was one of those stripped-down harley's with pipes instead of mufflers and you could feel each detonation in your abdomen. blatblatblat blatblatblat. I was 30 feet back and I was probably getting 90-95 decibels. This was more annoying than the kids with the rap music rattling their windshield wipers.
I've decided that those loud blat-blat bikes sound like an amphetamine-crazed monkey furiously masturbating under an overturned steel wash basin.
I'm a biker and I wanted to beat the hell outta the guy. I can only imagine what kind of ambassador to the general population he is. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | Kalifornia is try or has gotten a law passed to stop this. Not sure as to what extent, probably 85 decibels. Maybe one of the folks from there can update us on the law or proposed law. Some say loud pipes save lives...what do you think?
Edited by VisionTex 2010-10-11 12:02 PM
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Visionary
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New Bohemia, VA | he's only and ambassador to his kind, whatever kind that is. Fortunately these folks are few and far between and only comes out on sunny weekends. Real bikers grow tire of this very quickly because he is by no means riding this machine on an everyday basis, and may have only been seeing what it would do with punched pipes. He's probably asking himself why he even bothered to do it, and especially when his valves burn and cylinders warp from such an assinine manuever. Other than that, I have no opinion on the matter. |
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Cruiser
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Austin, Texas | Doubtful that in today's world of airconditioned quiet comfort in a motor vehicle that loud pipes would make any difference. A classic example is to watch traffic as an emergency vehicle comes up behind them with siren blasting. And that is with forward facing horns as opposed to the impact of the backward directed pipes on a bike. I'm just not convinced it makes any difference. A good friend of mine was riding a loud bike when a soccer mom in her minivan pulled out of a parking lot in front of him. He lost a leg and much of the use of an arm in that one. Has there ever been any research on this? |
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Visionary
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New Bohemia, VA | dtds - go to theVMC or to any Harley forum and there is TONS of research by riders that will tell you had it not been for loud pipes they would have been dead 100 avoided accidents ago. I like to go with the addage 'ride like they NEVER see you', so far, so good...
Edited by varyder 2010-10-11 12:25 PM
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Iron Butt
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Central New York | The research I read was that load pipes do nothing to help avoid an accident. The load, low decibels are being forced out the back and travel too slowly to out front far enough and fast enough to be of any use in collision avoidance. But, boys with toys don't really need a real excuse. |
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Visionary
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Memphis | I think that guys with loud pipes must drive their cars/trucks with the horn blowing all the time so no one runs into them. It's amazing that there are any Goldwings and BMW's left on the planet. |
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Iron Butt
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North Orange County CA |
EPA noise regulations for street motorcycles manufactured after 1986 limit them to 80DB. Since the passage of the Clean Air Act it has be illegal to modify any part of a vehicle manufactured for street use that would effect emissions. This means that virtually all performance parts, air cleaners, exhaust systems, aftermarket carbs etc etc etc are illegal by federal law. Which is why so many of these products have stamps or decals stating things like "closed circuit competition use only".
This ,in theory, takes the accessory manufacturer off the hook for providing you with a way to modify your vehicle which has been illegal since 1982.
Recent sate laws passed in CA, CT and ME are simply examples of the states codifying existing federal law into their vehicle codes and creating local enforcement standards for federal EPA rules that have been in effect since the 1980s. In most states that do not have vehicle inspections or smog certifications for motorcycles these environmental mandates have been ignored because there existed a lack of an effective means to enforce them.
With the passage of the new CA law, police (beginning in 2013) will be able to look at a motorcycle exhaust and know if it meets the EPA standards for both emissions and noise based on the stamp that they are required to carry. This new enforcement capability will probably be a huge boon to dealers who will be replacing after-market mufflers with CARB/EPA compliant units by the thousands. My guess is that mufflers are only the first part to get the stamp.
Loud pipes may save lives - debate away - but they have without question brought strict enforcement down upon us and in the future there appears to only one way to be able to own a hot rod motorcycle. Buy a pre-1982 model (first year of noise regulations) and have as much fun as you want.
Save your OEM parts - you're going to want them in the future. |
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Cruiser
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Meadow, Texas | Have to admit I had Bub's on my previous ride but switched back to stock after I got some tunes for it. Now with my vision, I'm not even thinking about it. I have heard some pipes that a little louder than stock but the ones that are almost straight pipes are very annoying. The only thing I can say about the adage "Loud pipes save lives" is they do seem to scare the deer away, but then again I haven't had any problem with my vision either. Could be the brighter lights - who knows!?!?
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Visionary
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Memphis | I was surprised that the quieter transmissions on the '11 Visions allowed Victory to open up the pipes a bit for a throatier stock exhaust. I thought it was measured at the exhaust tip. Where is the measurement taken from? I have a buddy with a decibel meter and it would be nice to get a reading and see where my S1/L1 with the intake plate stacks up. Theoretically, as the engine/tranny breaks in and quiets down, you have more decibels to put through the exhaust, right? |
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Tourer
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| Compared to my Vegas, my Vision is silent. I will say one thing about "my" loud pipes. They help lane "takers" check their blind spots for the noise before they cut you off, and the good part is when you see that head swinging you know what they are about to do.
Pipes don't really do anything that is out in front of you, but they can be used like a horn. For some strange reason using a horn tends to make cagers more agitated versus wrapping my loud pipes (the noise scares them) - go figure?
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Georgia, west of Atlanta | I've had alot of different motorcycles, and exhaust that you can hear do make your presence MORE known. You don't need "open" drag pipes with zero mufflers to accomplish this. My low rumble CFR's on the Vision make me more noticeable in traffic. On the other hand I have a 1424cc XL ( sportster ) with open reverse cone pipes, You can hear that thing coming or going a long distance away. That being said, alot of cage drivers with their windows up, stereo and AC on don't even hear trains at RR crossings sometimes till right before they get hit...............
Edited by XRsteve 2010-10-12 11:35 AM
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Iron Butt
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North Orange County CA | http://jack1.com/bikeWeb/5soundbook.pdf
This link describes the procedure for noise testing on page 59. |
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Visionary
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Memphis | Thanks Fred. Defense lawyers are gonna have a field day with the conditions and calibration of every test. Of course, living in the cutting edge metropolis of Memphis, I don't think my Vision will ever get tested in my lifetime. |
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Visionary
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Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | A crackdown has started in B.C. that has ALL the nasty boys scrambling to get new pipes for their bikes. If an officer THINKS that a bike is too loud, he can pull you over, call for a unit with equipment to measure the decibels - however long that takes. Then he can issue an ENORMOUS fine - more than the cost of new pipes. And MORE penalties as well.
I have seen and heard the 'loud pipes' argument played out in the editorial pages, radio, and more - but NOBODY (except other no-brains) is buying it.
It's just a matter of time before this thinking comes to an area near you - or where you want to ride to.... |
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Visionary
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Memphis | I think Colorado has gotten pretty aggressive with this also. |
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Extreme Southern, AZ United States | varyder - 2010-10-11 10:13 AM he's only and ambassador to his kind, whatever kind that is. Fortunately these folks are few and far between and only comes out on sunny weekends. Real bikers grow tire of this very quickly because he is by no means riding this machine on an everyday basis, and may have only been seeing what it would do with punched pipes. He's probably asking himself why he even bothered to do it, and especially when his valves burn and cylinders warp from such an assinine manuever. Other than that, I have no opinion on the matter. Yep that's exactly what I say evertime I pull the Panhead or Shovelhead or my TC out of the garage on an everyday basis. I tell myself I am not a "real" biker like Varyder is. And I spend so much money on burnt valves and warped pistons from running them in such an asinine manner. Couldn't be that I know how to tune a bike to keep it from doing all that nasty stuff to internal parts. Course since I have been riding these machines now since 1966, I may just be fooling myself by riding them and not tiring quickly of it. Tell me again Mr. Varyder what makes YOU a "real" biker and ambassador? Rubs, can't killem, can't leave em out in the rain cause they'll get all sniffly and stuff. |
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Iron Butt
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Western WA | sgiacci - 2010-10-12 8:26 AM
Compared to my Vegas, my Vision is silent. I will say one thing about "my" loud pipes. They help lane "takers" check their blind spots for the noise before they cut you off, and the good part is when you see that head swinging you know what they are about to do.
Pipes don't really do anything that is out in front of you, but they can be used like a horn. For some strange reason using a horn tends to make cagers more agitated versus wrapping my loud pipes (the noise scares them) - go figure?
Dual Stebels will take care of annoyed cagers.  |
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Tourer
Posts: 401
| donetracey - 2010-10-12 7:57 PM
A crackdown has started in B.C. that has ALL the nasty boys scrambling to get new pipes for their bikes. If an officer THINKS that a bike is too loud, he can pull you over, call for a unit with equipment to measure the decibels - however long that takes. Then he can issue an ENORMOUS fine - more than the cost of new pipes. And MORE penalties as well.
I have seen and heard the 'loud pipes' argument played out in the editorial pages, radio, and more - but NOBODY (except other no-brains) is buying it.
It's just a matter of time before this thinking comes to an area near you - or where you want to ride to....
Insults are great when you're ignorant, and think what you do is perfection. Tell us "no-brained", "nasty" boys the decibel level of your stock (or modified) dashboard boom boxes (hint: 100db -110db). Oh, that's right; everyone just loves it when you crank up Barry Manilow at the red lights, because your hearing aid is not working right.
BTW:
Most aftermarket pipes don't exceed 90db. (trucks, shop tools, and lawn mower range)
Aftermarket off-road pipes typically don't exceed 100db (less than a stock dashboard boom box).
Only full on race systems can hit or exceed 100db (less than a modified dashboard boom box).
Next time, think, before you start throwing around insults.
Edited by sgiacci 2010-10-12 9:38 PM
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Tourer
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Cleveland, GA | Don't know about any empirical studies on the matter, but I just read a magazine's feature article on electric motorcycles this weekend - don't remember which mag, since I don't have it with me right now. The writer said something to the effect that a lot more people pulled out in front of him than usually happened on a regular bike, and that as much as he hated to give credence to the "Loud pipes save lives" saying, it seems as if it had some basis in fact. |
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Iron Butt
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North Orange County CA | Decibels are measured on a logarithmic scale, so a 90 DB measurement means that the noise level is perceived by the human ear to be approximately DOUBLE that a stock EPA compliant (80 DB ) exhaust, a 100 DB system would be 100 times louder than that same street legal bike. That's a pretty serious difference.
I made the mistake years ago of firing up my BSA with reverse cone megaphones (in the garage) one evening about 10:30. I got an irate phone call from my neighbors who lived a good 100 yards away. I had woken up their young kids with my racket.
This ultimately is the root of the problem; perception is reality. Just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, if we are perceived as being annoying jerks, then we are annoying jerks.
A 90 db aftermarket pipe is not legal in ANY state unless the bike was manufactured before 1979. The state where you live may not have the ability, or the will to enforce the regulations but, that sound level is certainly loud enough to get you noticed, and cited in states that have an enforcement mechanism. This could prove to be a bummer for a guy on a touring bike like the Vision, who runs afoul of the local constabulary.
A number of beach communities in my area have LEOs with db meters checking bikes as they ride through town, they issue lots of citations. One additional comment, with the economy being the way it is, as tax revenues decrease, local law enforcement may look to noisy motorcyclists as an easy source of revenue.
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Visionary
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Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | sgiacci - 2010-10-12 7:32 PM Next time, think, before you start throwing around insults. I have not problem with throwing insults at people who interupt my music with their awful chuggy-bunk-loud-clunk noises. None at all.... And they are going to PAY for it here in B.C. Coming to YOU soon.... |
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Visionary
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New Bohemia, VA | JustBob - 2010-10-12 10:09 PM
varyder - 2010-10-11 10:13 AM he's only and ambassador to his kind, whatever kind that is. Fortunately these folks are few and far between and only comes out on sunny weekends. Real bikers grow tire of this very quickly because he is by no means riding this machine on an everyday basis, and may have only been seeing what it would do with punched pipes. He's probably asking himself why he even bothered to do it, and especially when his valves burn and cylinders warp from such an assinine manuever. Other than that, I have no opinion on the matter.
Yep that's exactly what I say evertime I pull the Panhead or Shovelhead or my TC out of the garage on an everyday basis.? I tell myself I am not a "real" biker like Varyder is.?? And I spend so much money on burnt valves and warped pistons from running them in such an asinine manner.? Couldn't be that I know how to tune a bike to keep it from doing all that nasty stuff to internal parts.? Course since I have been riding these machines now since 1966, I may just be fooling myself by riding them and not tiring quickly of it.? Tell me again Mr. Varyder what makes YOU a "real" biker and ambassador????? Rubs, can't killem, can't leave em out in the rain cause they'll get all sniffly and stuff.?
...you're the exception jb...
...and maybe if I get another opportunity to get out that way, we can take a ride...
-----addition-----
I was going to end my post above, but there is something itching me so I've got to scratch it. As I said, you are the exception jb, and I think the guy trailbarge is the person I was targeting. I might be wrong, but of the folks I have known to do things like punching their pipes or running straight pipes are after the "cool" factor, trying to be like you and not knowing the ends and outs and end up cookin' their motor. Tell me I am off base that there are not some just like that, and I'll never say another word on this forum.
I don't mind you calling me a RUB either, because I will admit that I am, and I love to ride. I don't know if it is a passion or an obsession, I don't really care, but I just love to roll and so far I have not found my boundaries, unfortunately I've not had a lot of time to find out. I'll roll out my driveway while it is storming, and calling for all day long, everybody I know calls me crazy. So, I might be stupid, I might be a RUB, and I may never be a biker, but what is that too you. I made a statement what I thought was relavent to trailbarge observation, I fail to see how you fell into that category.
Edited by varyder 2010-10-13 5:50 AM
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New Bohemia, VA | ...post time out, I wasn't targeting trailbarge, but the guy trailbarge made the observation about. I didn't want anyone, especially trailbarge to misunderstand my comments. |
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Goldsboro, NC | Tarpits99 - 2010-10-13 12:08 AM
Decibels are measured on a logarithmic scale, so a 90 DB measurement means that the noise level is perceived by the human ear to be approximately DOUBLE that a stock EPA compliant (80 DB ) exhaust, a 100 DB system would be 100 times louder than that same street legal bike. That's a pretty serious difference.
Close. Each 10 decibels is 10X... not 2X. You have the idea, because you correctly identified 100dB as being 100X louder than 80dB.
With respect to 80dB, 90 dB is 10X louder, 100dB is 100X louder, and 70dB is 1/10 as loud.
0dB is the baseline, which is an arbitrary line considered to be the limit of human perception... about .002 microbar delta P, if i remember correctly |
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Visionary
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Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Here is what is happening in my local community - and extending through all the towns and cities of B.C. RCMP Press release:
Police Tackling Noisy Vehicles
The onset of summer is not always good news for some Lower Mainland residents, who dread the increase in noisy motorcycles and other vehicles on their neighborhood roads.
The North Vancouver RCMP and Port Mann freeway patrol are inviting motorcycle riders and other vehicle owners to attend the parking lot of the Main street off ramp at the Ironworkers Memorial bridge, on June 5th and 6th from 8:30 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. for free decibel testing of their exhaust systems. This type of testing has never been offered by the police before and will be a unique opportunity for riders and drivers to become more aware of their noise levels. Trained Police officers will determine if the noise levels from the exhaust pipes are illegally loud.
On these days only, drivers will be offered an amnesty (no charges) by the police in North Vancouver. If their vehicle is found to be above the legal decibel limit, the Police will explain how to make the necessary improvements. Only street legal and street safe motorcycles and vehicles will be tested.
- If a motorcycle, car or truck is making more noise than a factory model, it is too loud.
- If after-market pipes have been installed they likely do not have baffles and are not legal.
- Most after market products are not approved mufflers.
Extensive enforcement for noisy vehicles will take place during June to October. Drivers charged under Section 7A.01 of the Motor Vehicle Act - Regulations will pay a fine of $109 and receive three points. If the noise is too excessive, vehicles could be towed and license plates seized, requiring the owner to have the vehicle inspected and then re-licensed.
“I have pulled over many motorcycles over the years and have heard all kinds of explanations,” says Constable Peter Kennedy with the North Vancouver RCMP. “None of them were valid, especially when someone says that the noise is for safety reasons and could save their life. Noisy motorcycles do not save lives, they simply irritate other people enjoying a peaceful day. The general public does not enjoy the noise and have made many requests with the local police agencies and the Mayor’s office for serious enforcement.”
Motor Vehicle Act Regulations
“A motor vehicle shall be equipped with an exhaust system which ensures that the exhaust gases from the engine are cooled and expelled without excessive noise.”
“The opinion of an inspector as to whether the engine and exhaust noise is greater than that made by other vehicles in good condition of comparable size, horsepower, pistondisplacement or compression ratio shall determine whether exhaust gases are expelled with excessive noise.” |
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Goldsboro, NC | varyder - 2010-10-13 6:54 AM
...post time out, I wasn't targeting trailbarge, but the guy trailbarge made the observation about. I didn't want anyone, especially trailbarge to misunderstand my comments.
I had to think for a long time to remember what a RUB was. Anyway, I am a MIUB, which is why I don't have any upgrades on my bike to brag about in my signature.
I'm a little sorry that I started a bit of a holy war here. I just wanted to share the imagery of the amphetamine-crazed monkey = and bring a smile to a few people. Didn't know I was stepping on the word ex cathedra about asswip.... er - "genuine non-RUB bikers" and their prima facia assumption of a right to ruin everyone's day.
oops.... that doesn't tone it down much, does it ? heh, heh |
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Iron Butt
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North Orange County CA | Thanks for the correction TB, it's just one more example of why having a working knowledge of "times and gazintas" is so important. I blame my shortcomings on the school system, 'cause it surely cant be MY fault.
BTW thats sure a lot of Latin your throwin' around.
Edited by Tarpits99 2010-10-13 11:53 AM
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Iron Butt
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Reno County, KS | trailbarge - 2010-10-13 10:19 AM
Tarpits99 - 2010-10-13 12:08 AM
Decibels are measured on a logarithmic scale, so a 90 DB measurement means that the noise level is perceived by the human ear to be approximately DOUBLE that a stock EPA compliant (80 DB ) exhaust, a 100 DB system would be 100 times louder than that same street legal bike. That's a pretty serious difference.
Close. Each 10 decibels is 10X... not 2X. You have the idea, because you correctly identified 100dB as being 100X louder than 80dB.
With respect to 80dB, 90 dB is 10X louder, 100dB is 100X louder, and 70dB is 1/10 as loud.
0dB is the baseline, which is an arbitrary line considered to be the limit of human perception... about .002 microbar delta P, if i remember correctly
I was tought that the signal doubles strength every 3db. Maybe that's just RF gain but I think that it holds true for every spectrum. (i.e. 10 db gain would equal just over three times the noise baseline). ? Dunno. Either way, I'm with you. There are few things that piss me off more than a POS Sportster with pipes so lound I can't hear myself think. Most of these guys have chip on their shoulder. I have tried to get my exhaust note "just right" on the Vision but I will NOT sacrifice 1 single ft.lb or torque so I have pretty much went to St1.Lvl2 pipes and left it at that. I pulled the baffles for awhile to see if I could go back to a louder bike and didn't enjoy it. I DO play the radio loud though!!! Everywhere I ride I blare the radio so as to drown out the noise of the traffic. Once traffic is gone, radio pretty much goes off. If I can hear nature (birds and such), then I could care less about music. Not that I'm a tree-hugger either! Maybe I'm just getting old or something. After owning a full fairing bike I will probably not be happy with anything less. I could use an extra decible or 2 of exhaust for the open highway (love the way the motor sounds when it loads up) but I despise open pipes lately.
Edited by bigwill5150 2010-10-13 12:46 PM
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Goldsboro, NC | bigwill5150 - 2010-10-13 1:35 PM
I was tought that the signal doubles strength every 3db. Maybe that's just RF gain but I think that it holds true for every spectrum. (i.e. 10 db gain would equal just over three times the noise baseline). ? Dunno. Either way, I'm with you.
We are on the same page. 10dB difference is 10X strength.... or....
base x 3dB difference is 2X, x 6dB is 4X, x 9dB is 8X, x 12dB is 16X... so 10X strength would fall between 9dB and 12dB.
I DO play the radio loud though!!!
Me, too. More than once, I've been on the superslab and sensed a car hovering next to me. I look over to see someone filming me as I chair danced to the music. Embarrassing... especially since there is absolutely NO chance that they are filming me because of my good looks. (I'm as ugly as a bucket full of armpits.)
My wife says she hears my radio coming into the neighborhood before she hears my bike. I tell her its only when a really good song comes on.
Everywhere I ride I blare the radio so as to drown out the noise of the traffic. Once traffic is gone, radio pretty much goes off. If I can hear nature (birds and such), then I could care less about music. Not that I'm a tree-hugger either! Maybe I'm just getting old or something. After owning a full fairing bike I will probably not be happy with anything less. I could use an extra decible or 2 of exhaust for the open highway (love the way the motor sounds when it loads up) but I despise open pipes lately.
I actually AM a bit of a tree hugger. Before I broke my leg, I used to spend at least a week a year in the back country somewhere. I don't put myself to sleep reading "How to S**t in the Woods" (yeas, that's a real book) or anything, but I have an appreciation for our wilderness preserves.
When I want to hear a good tone from my bike, I drive under a bridge. We have one here in Goldsboro that never fails to bring a smile to my ugly puss... if only for a few seconds. I could also always go find a tunnel.... WOW! |
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| Loud pipes + fringed jacket = gay |
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New Bohemia, VA | ...it's getting too cold around here for the "loud pipers" and I'm not waving as much. Does quiet pipes + fringed jacket = gay? or does that equate to pansy? just curious... |
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Iron Butt
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North Orange County CA | loud pipers
the lemon pipers
bagpipers
dont cotton to any of em!
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Goldsboro, NC | varyder - 2010-11-03 12:08 PM
...it's getting too cold around here for the "loud pipers" and I'm not waving as much. Does quiet pipes + fringed jacket = gay? or does that equate to pansy? just curious...
Only if you have tassels on your handlebars and keyfob, too!
heh, sorry.... to easy, that one. couldn't let it go unsaid. |
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New Bohemia, VA | ...don't mind being a target... |
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Goldsboro, NC | varyder - 2010-11-05 12:34 PM
...don't mind being a target...
"Don't matter whether you catch anything or not. Once you've been used for bait, you ain't much good for anything else." --Cartoon quote from West of Honor... Jerry Pournelle |
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New Bohemia, VA | ...I've never been good at much else, I think that is why I love riding...it's my world, I just let others in as I see fit.... |
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Bullhead City, AZ | Wifeunit had a guy the other day where she could hear the bike but not see him. Lucky for him she had the windows down and knew the bike was close. When she found him he was in the blindspot passenger side of the Forester trying to pass as she was turning into his lane. She just got her bike license and they really drilled the part of being invisable in class. No harm no foul everybody went home happy. |
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Gross HAWG observation (warning: GROSS)