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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| So one of the guys here asked the dealer what did victory change to get to a 5000 mile oil changed.
They told him they changed the metal in the tranie.
Does that sound right?? |
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Tourer
Posts: 412
Fargo, ND |
My understanding is that it was the tranny also!
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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | Does not sound right to me. Later H-D bikes have helical cut gears and the trannies go 10K and the oil looks like new comiong out. I suspect EPA hase something to do with the decision. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | same ploy the auto industry used when they went from 3,000 to 5,000 mile oil changes. I'm sure there is some "official" EPA reason, but the Victory said that because it was harder to find neutral on the older oil, the intervals were set to 2,500 miles. Now, with the Neutral finder (please), you can go 5,000 and get full use of your oil like many has already been doing that can find neutral on our own.
Personally I think, it was the "I'll scratch your back if you'll scratch mine" deal. However, there was nothing keepomg us from having a 5,000 mile change before except they wouldn't say so until now. Now the Victory's are like the rest and we think it is a big deal. Psychological is all that it is.
Edited by varyder 2010-08-19 12:10 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Probably many reasons. Type of transmission gear and how they shear Tue oil. I know someone on HERE uses mobil1 20w50 motorcycle oil and went 5000 miles on his 2008 vision,then had the oil sent Blackstone labs to see how mobil1 did in 5000 miles of use. He told me the results were, the oil was easily able to handle the 5000 oil change interval. I personally am going to have my rotella 5w40 oil tested at 2500 to see sure it stands.. the reason I want to do that is. I want to continue to do the 2500 o.c.I's , I just to do it without dropping $60 every 2500 miles.... once my warranty is up and they no longer want proof of oil changes ill do the 5000 mile o.c.I. using something like Mobil one.
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | It is all about the "Neutral Finder". According to the Vic press release the previous bikes oil break down made it so that neutral was difficult to engage once the oil broke down[we all know that is true] With the finder in the new bikes; that is a non issue |
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | Kevinx - Got a question, about finding neutral. Seems at idle, seems a little tough to feather the shifter into neutral. but if I rev it up to around 2K or so, it just easily shifts like butter right into neutral. Easy Cheesy! Why when you rev it does it go smoothly? I'm not familiar enough with the trans to know this answer. Feel free to beat me about the head and shoulders for my lack of mechanical know how and how I pay my mechanic to know these answers! So, I give my gift of methane, ethanol, alcohol, and oil as gift to the knower of mechanical know how. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 99
Cold lake Alberta | wroman - 2010-08-18 8:19 PM
Does not sound right to me. Later H-D bikes have helical cut gears and the trannies go 10K and the oil looks like new comiong out. I suspect EPA hase something to do with the decision.
Seperate tranny though, not in with the engine. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | salty - 2010-08-19 10:40 AM
wroman - 2010-08-18 8:19 PM
Does not sound right to me. Later H-D bikes have helical cut gears and the trannies go 10K and the oil looks like new comiong out. I suspect EPA hase something to do with the decision.
Seperate tranny though, not in with the engine.
What!?!?! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 244
Fargo, ND | I think salty is just saying the HD has the tranny oil reservoir seperate from the engine oil reservoir, unlike the Victory bikes which use the same oil for both. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | salty - 2010-08-19 11:40 AM
wroman - 2010-08-18 8:19 PM
Does not sound right to me. Later H-D bikes have helical cut gears and the trannies go 10K and the oil looks like new comiong out. I suspect EPA hase something to do with the decision.
Seperate tranny though, not in with the engine.
Being in a separate case means they run a transmission specific heavy oil. Just like the rear diff in your car. Also having owned many HD's myself I know that finding Neutral on that box can be a full time job
Pollo,
When you blip the throttle you make the gears spin in the trans a little even with the clutch in. That movement makes it easier to fin an empty place[neutral] then it is to engage a gear |
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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | I find that shifting into neutral as the bike is rolling is easy, on any bike. |
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Fountain Inn, SC United States | So as long as we don't use neutral in 2008-10 bikes, we can extend out oil change intervals to 5000mi.  |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Lol |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| So, it sounds like there's two schools of thought regarding the 2008-10 bikes: 1. The oil breaks down in the 2011 at the same rate it did in the previous bikes but now its OK to run 5000 miles since neutral is easier to find. 2. The new helical gears in the trans break down the oil less than the earlier models which allows you to run 5000 miles in addition to finding neutral easier. Therefore: If you believe #1 then you should be able to run the oil up to 5000 miles in the older motors as long as you're satisfied finding neutral. This thinking implies that the oil lubricity has not deteriorated any more than it would have in a 2011 at the same mileage. If you believe #2 then you'll be potentially damaging the engine if you run the oil longer than the prescribed 2500 miles. Personally, I'm going with #1 and either Mobil 1 or Amsoil and I'll either change the oil when the trans tells me to or at 5000 miles, whichever comes first. Which do you believe? Marc
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I believe I'll have a Diet Mountain Dew! |
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Tourer
Posts: 411
Dallas, Texas | I Believe....there are...angels amoung us... |
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | Jedi Jeff - 2010-08-25 10:42 AM So as long as we don't use neutral in 2008-10 bikes, we can extend out oil change intervals to 5000mi. We kind of laugh about that statement but that is exactly what is going on. If it weren't for the neutral issue, the interval would have been 5,000 miles on all models. As Kevin explained, the oil gets to a point where the clutch plates don't want to "give up" the gear they are in and it becomes "all or nothing" from first to second. The new tranny's have a ball bearing that falls into a little track when you get down to about 5 mph and becomes a very discernable detent that you will hit every time. As far as noticeably quieter gears with the new cut, it's probably not as dramatic as you might think. According to the people that took the test rides at the AVR, you can tell a difference but that doesn't mean it's totally quiet. The bottom line is if you ever ran the oil out to 5,000 miles on the early bikes, the engine and tranny is perfectly fine. If you sent the oil off for analysis it would look dirty but test perfectly fine. The tranny just becomes a little less user friendly as the oil gets older. As far as the question "Can I retrofit the new tranny into my 08-10 model bike?" Nope, slightly different shape to the case to accomodate the neutral finder ball bearings/track. (This was all part of my conversation with engineer James Holroyd.) |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| Good info! That answers that question.
Marc |
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Cruiser
Posts: 51
Okotoks, Alberta | The neutral finder is kinda handy on my Kawi VN2000 except it eliminates the use of 2nd gear launches from stop lights. Iam sure it will be well used on the Vision. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 77
| So the question remains, are you going to continue to change oil at 2500 miles or are you going to extend it to 5000 miles? As for me, I will continue the 2500 mile oil change until my 5 year warranty runs out or my new Vision is in the garage! |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I've been changing at or around the 3 - 4,000 mile range for the past year or more. My warranty runs out next year. |
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Tourer
Posts: 388
Salisbury, NC | I use mobil 1 20w40 wet clutch and have been changing the oil at 5000 miles for the last 25,000 miles. From when the bike was new, I looked for metal in the oil from the first and every oil change since. The first oil change had a few flakes of gasket and a very small amount of metal in it. From the second oil change to now, it always looks the same even after KevinX changed the cams. At 5,000 miles it is a little darker than at 2500 miles, but it show no signs of metal in it. I use a jewelers loop to get a good look at it. ET |
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5000 miles on oil change 2011